Blur, Goon, Kick Controversy

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  10 October 2012
If everyone at blur likes the project so much, they could probably work after hours on it for a couple of months and offer cash incentives to participating animators if the film does well. . Seems pretty reasonable to me.
$400k for this seems a bit much, but I've never done a feature animatic, so I'm just guessing here.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Michael5188: So is this what the trend should become? In order for a movie to be made we all need to put money in for a story pitch, then when an incredible animatic is made the studios have an easier, less risky investment to make, so they invest.
In order for this movie to be made.

A movie that is currently not going to be made, that fans have asked how they can help get it made and Blur are responding by trying a new and untested avenue to see if they can make that happen.

I think the major difference is that you (and others) are seeing people's outlay as an investment in the end product - which they have never stated is the case.

Originally Posted by Michael5188: And then we, the crowd-funders, pay again to see the movie, and the studios make their investment back and more, while we've paid twice to see a film?
Once again, this is the whole fiscal return paradox.

On the one hand people are complaining that there isn't a guarantee that the film will get made and the backers are therefore being taken for a ride. On the other hand, people are complaining that the film will be a commercial success and the backers won't see a penny.

If Blur did offer free tickets to see the film if/when it gets made, there would be people complaining that this is a hollow promise.

The reality (for me at least) is that I'd like this film to exist. Blur have given me a chance to help that complicated process (and get some cool junk in the process) - if it means handing over 7 in the cinema in a few years time, I am absolutely fine with that.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by leif3d: If everyone at blur likes the project so much, they could probably work after hours on it for a couple of months and offer cash incentives to participating animators if the film does well. . Seems pretty reasonable to me.
Imagine if a client made this proposal to you.
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  10 October 2012
Fair enough, I can see wanting this specific movie to be made, it just annoys me this is where we have to go for that to happen, and that the big studios who already have it easiest in the whole film making process are getting it even easier. I mean they must looove this, now they get to make a decision after viewing a full story reel. demo short film, and comics with no money down? It's a studio exec's dream come true.

But then again I guess you can look at it as a win win for everyone. Studio makes money with less risk, Blur gets an amazing opportunity (and money), and we get the movies we want to see.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by AJ: Imagine if a client made this proposal to you.

The client *IS* blur. No one is proposing this to them, they are the ones asking for money, not a client.
Originally Posted by Michael5188: But then again I guess you can look at it as a win win for everyone. Studio makes money with less risk, Blur gets an amazing opportunity (and money), and we get the movies we want to see.

You still have to pay to see the movie, so you don't get anything.
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  10 October 2012
Not to mention we would never get to see it.

I think there needs to be something bold like this project to push more mature feature animation in the west if it doesnt get studio support. Japan and most of asia find it quite easy to target different demographics.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Michael5188: , it just annoys me this is where we have to go for that to happen, and that the big studios who already have it easiest in the whole film making process are getting it even easier. I mean they must looove this, now they get to make a decision after viewing a full story reel. demo short film, and comics with no money down? It's a studio exec's dream come true..
I don't think it will become the norm, but Hollywood does seem adverse to taking risks. Also, adult animation in America is pretty much a non-market in their eyes, especially big-budget animation. I hope they get to make it, but I can see why they have to go this route.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by leif3d: You still have to pay to see the movie, so you don't get anything.


You get the movie in existence, which wouldn't have happened otherwise. Not really agreeing it's a win/win in my eyes, just saying how I think the people donating view this.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Michael5188: Look we all understand it's voluntary, we aren't saying this shouldn't be done or it's immoral, we're just voicing the little things about it that kind of bother us.

So is this what the trend should become? In order for a movie to be made we all need to put money in for a story pitch, then when an incredible animatic is made the studios have an easier, less risky investment to make, so they invest. And then we, the crowd-funders, pay again to see the movie, and the studios make their investment back and more, while we've paid twice to see a film?

You don't see how that is all a kind of weird set up, where we, the consumers, kind of bend over backwards to see a product we want?

Really it comes down to normally when you donate to a kickstarter the minimum reward is often the product you're kickstarting, which makes sense. I want this made, I put money in, it gets made and I recieve the result. Here it's a weird situation where I want something made, I put mony in, it gets made, I now pay again to recieve the result. And if it isn't made, I don't really get anything. (oh I get a behind the scenes look at making the story reel... )

Again, I'm not saying it isn't transparent, and people are allowed to donate, that's fine. I just don't want to really see this become a trend, cause I think it really just puts more burden on us, while lifting a lot from the studios. (and I refer to the studios that would back/distribute/etc. the project, not Blur)

Also want to mention I'm not boiling over this, just kind of discussing it is all. I'm all for a Goon movie to be made, and I'd absolutely love to see Blur get into features, so I wish them the best!


Couldn't have said it better. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said it sets a bad precedent. While Miller is being honest about actual deliverables to investors (none), I still contend that many of those investors don't fully understand that this story reel will not necessarily lead to the movie being made.

And before the_jaco has a heart attack, no one is talking about reaping direct financial rewards as investors. But Miller & Co. are offering nothing - not even the chance to watch the story reel (unless you're a mega-donor). Even that Anomolisa project is giving out setpieces and animation models, etc. The rewards don't necessarily have to be financial, but should make the donor feel like they are a valued and essential part of the project. This just feels like throwing money into the back door of a big studio.
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  10 October 2012
This is just an animatic. How much will they need to raise to make the movie happen? Can they raise 80 million on kick-starter, because I'm not sure even after they complete their animatic that a big producer would buy in. If they can build it for 10 mil, maybe they can make a case for it, but...
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Brettzies: I don't think it will become the norm, but Hollywood does seem adverse to taking risks. Also, adult animation in America is pretty much a non-market in their eyes, especially big-budget animation. I hope they get to make it, but I can see why they have to go this route.


The good thing is it can be done. South Park, Team America for feature length and then something like Boondocks and Family Guy for TV.

Once its proven, i think more mature feature will become less of a risk (again, only if done right).
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Last edited by Phrenzy84 : 10 October 2012 at 12:49 AM.
 
  10 October 2012
I think that it would speak volumes though if it makes the funding goals that a fan base alone is willing to donate that much money just for a story reel. It reminds me of how fans are pushing Crytek to make a timesplitters sequel, seems like studios and publishers need to remember the old saying that the customer is always right. If you have strong fan groups pushing and requesting for something it should be a sign to meet their requests.
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Artbot: Couldn't have said it better. This is exactly what I was referring to when I said it sets a bad precedent. While Miller is being honest about actual deliverables to investors (none), I still contend that many of those investors don't fully understand that this story reel will not necessarily lead to the movie being made.

And before the_jaco has a heart attack, no one is talking about reaping direct financial rewards as investors. But Miller & Co. are offering nothing - not even the chance to watch the story reel (unless you're a mega-donor).


Agreed. The problem with The Goon Kickstarter is that it does not create a final product that the supporters can receive, and that goes against the charter of Kickstarter.

Everyone who is cheering Blur on for bucking the system and going for it on their own are not realizing that Blur isn't really going outside the system. They are looking to build a fan base that has shown its sincerity by giving them money, and then the filmmakers will attempt to use this as leverage to get further in the existing studio system and its approval process. They are also using the fans to defray the initial pre-production budget, but will still require big studio investment to get the project made and released.

Honestly I don't think it will matter. Sure they will have an animatic to shop around, but once it is in production the story and animatic will change. They will have proven that a few tens of thousands of fans will go see the movie, but since the studios need millions of mass market fans to make their money back and see a profit, those few tens of thousands won't matter all that much in the final calculation.

If the money were going towards a short film that was created with the funds, and then that short was used to show a level of interest and what the final product could look like, then I'd say "go for it." It would achieve the same purpose as a full animatic plus completed feature film script (show what it will look like, and show the paying fan base), and it would give the investors something tangible for their money. If they were to strip down their production costs and fund an entire indie feature film through kickstarter then I'd be even more excited. But as it is, I don't think it is a good deal and I don't think it sets a good precedence for Kickstarter.

Cheers,
Michael
 
  10 October 2012
I'd be lying if I said I didn't want the campaign to fail miserably.
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by BigPixolin: I'd be lying if I said I didn't want the campaign to fail miserably.

That's added a lot to the discussion, thanks!
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