CGTalk > Main > General Discussion
Login register
Thread Closed share thread « Previous Thread | Next Thread »
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 10-24-2012, 08:18 PM   #16
Michael5188
another mime
 
Michael5188's Avatar
portfolio
Michael Sime
animator/rigger
NYC, USA
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artbot
In principle I totally agree, but in practice, there's something that really rubs me the wrong way about this. This is basically a commercial endeavor with no payback or upside for the investor (you). While some continue to hail this new business model as "bold" or "innovative" or "breaking from the studio system," this particular project appears to be none of these. They are merely asking people to pay for what a studio should pay for if they thought the project was worthy of development (i.e., potentially profitable), and that sets a bad precedent.


Well and this is exactly how I feel, I just feel strange complaining since nobody is forced to give anything, but yes, it's iffy. As you said, my main gripe is that you aren't investing in a final product, you are investing in a part of it that could never advance into something substantial. Most of the time on kickstarter you invest, and if it makes the goal you get the product you invested in, if it doesn't make the goal, you get your money back.

Well now we have this situation where you put your money in, it reaches the goal so they keep your money, the story reel is made, and then nothing ever comes of it... so really you got nothing out of your investment.
__________________
-Michael

www.MichaelSime.com
 
Old 10-24-2012, 08:18 PM   #17
CHRiTTeR
On the run!
 
CHRiTTeR's Avatar
Chris
Graphic designer extraordinaire
Belgium
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,372
So if someone invests in this... What does he get in return then?
 
Old 10-24-2012, 08:22 PM   #18
Michael5188
another mime
 
Michael5188's Avatar
portfolio
Michael Sime
animator/rigger
NYC, USA
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 2,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by CHRiTTeR
So if someone invests in this... What does he get in return then?


Other than the direct gifts for investing a certain amount, hope that the movie is made beyond this...

Yeah it's strange.

I think people praising this and crowd funding in general are missing the point of the controversy behind this. This isn't crowd funding for a movie, it's crowd funding for a pitch, there's a big difference.
__________________
-Michael

www.MichaelSime.com
 
Old 10-24-2012, 08:35 PM   #19
PerryDS
Everything Creative
 
PerryDS's Avatar
portfolio
Perry Shulak
Contractor, self-employed
Critical Fusion Inc
Edmonton, Canada
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 761
Send a message via MSN to PerryDS
With this sort of project, if it has marketable value, they could self-finance it if they really believe in it, and they feel it has a chance to succeed. To build an animatic for the purpose of pushing it onto a Hollywood type, hoping it will get a green light - I'm not feeling so inclined to lay down some ducats. They should do a graphic novel with the story, offer that to those who invest ... then use that to pitch their project.
__________________
Perry Shulak
Design, Illustration, writing and interactive media
www.criticalfusion.com
www.perryshulakcreative.com
 
Old 10-24-2012, 08:47 PM   #20
CHRiTTeR
On the run!
 
CHRiTTeR's Avatar
Chris
Graphic designer extraordinaire
Belgium
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael5188
Other than the direct gifts for investing a certain amount, hope that the movie is made beyond this...

Yeah it's strange.

I think people praising this and crowd funding in general are missing the point of the controversy behind this. This isn't crowd funding for a movie, it's crowd funding for a pitch, there's a big difference.


So if i get this right...

They (blur) take no risk in investment and they get all the rewards in the end?
All the ppl that invested the money, get no 'real' reward for that? Except some worthless autographed plastic gimmick or something. No % from the profit made?

What if it fails mid production. For example; for some unforeseen reason there are finacial problems and the project cant continue. Do the investors get their money back guaranteed or is it gone and lost forever?

Last edited by CHRiTTeR : 10-24-2012 at 08:53 PM.
 
Old 10-24-2012, 08:54 PM   #21
Lomax
Lord of the posts
 
Lomax's Avatar
portfolio
Jared Lindquist
Technical Animator
Limited Slip Studio
Orlando, United%2BStates
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 707
Eh, if people want to spend their money on a story reel/pitch, that's their business.

My only problem with the Goon campaign - Blur made their pitch already, with a kick-ass trailer. And Hollywood collectively said "no, thanks".
The Hollywood suits aren't idiots, unfortunately. They've a short list of expensive mature-audience animated flops that tells them The Goon would be too high a risk. A rabid fanbase means nothing to them if the film can't move some happy-meals.
__________________

 
Old 10-24-2012, 09:00 PM   #22
CHRiTTeR
On the run!
 
CHRiTTeR's Avatar
Chris
Graphic designer extraordinaire
Belgium
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 4,372
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lomax
Eh, if people want to spend their money on a story reel/pitch, that's their business.

My only problem with the Goon campaign - Blur made their pitch already, with a kick-ass trailer. And Hollywood collectively said "no, thanks".
The Hollywood suits aren't idiots, unfortunately. They've a short list of expensive mature-audience animated flops that tells them The Goon would be too high a risk. A rabid fanbase means nothing to them if the film can't move some happy-meals.


Sure, just wanted to be sure.

If i were blur, id probably try the same thing. Great deal from their perspective
 
Old 10-24-2012, 09:13 PM   #23
calilifestyle
Renown Voice of Reason
 
calilifestyle's Avatar
portfolio
none
USA
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael5188
Honestly I can think of a few little things about it that bother me, but none of it matters in the end cause of that simple argument, it's voluntary. If people want to give money, why shouldn't they be allowed to? Overall I'm fine with it.



your right
 
Old 10-24-2012, 09:23 PM   #24
Artbot
Mostly Harmless
 
Artbot's Avatar
CGTalk Forum Leader
portfolio
Richard Green
The Man Who Sold the World
USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Posts: 5,122
Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael5188
Other than the direct gifts for investing a certain amount, hope that the movie is made beyond this...

Yeah it's strange.

I think people praising this and crowd funding in general are missing the point of the controversy behind this. This isn't crowd funding for a movie, it's crowd funding for a pitch, there's a big difference.


Tim Miller goes on at length to explain exactly what they are attempting to produce with this money, but I think he's still being a bit disingenuous about it. I believe that part of what donors are counting on is the (incorrect) belief that a story reel or pitch reel will automatically lead to the movie getting made - it won't. I think that's the deceptive aspect of this, and it takes advantage of people who may have little or no knowledge of how a Hollywood movie gets made.

Personally, I would love to see Blur kickstart an original, polished title similar to what KS projects like Anomalisa plan to do. They obviously have a lot of talent and appeared to come close to getting a movie deal for Rock Fishing way back in the day.
__________________
www.artbot.com

 
Old 10-24-2012, 09:36 PM   #25
JWRodegher
-
 
JWRodegher's Avatar
portfolio
Jonathan W Rodegher
Lead Lighter
Brown Bag films
Dublin, Ireland
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,293
Send a message via AIM to JWRodegher Send a message via MSN to JWRodegher
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lomax
The Hollywood suits aren't idiots, unfortunately.


Unfortunately, yes they are. Problem is, the massive amount of people spending money on movie tickets are equally tasteless idiots who are happily spoon fed the shit Hollywood outputs year after year. Yes, that's the business side that I have a problem with. I don't need any lectures about how necessary it is. Me? I just want to see and experience excellent stories with great technical and artistic performance. I don't give a rats ass about the demographics.

Perhaps The Goon will never see the light, but one can only wish to see such thing on the big screen. I think the mistake is trying to make something like this into a massive blockbuster. Nor I believe is what the fans want. Instead, they should try to go ahead and do it with whatever budget they can get and do the best possible.

Hollywood said no, the suits say no. GOOD! I celebrate that, we don't have to see another IP get crushed by the Hollywood formula. We just need to figure a way to get it done, at the tone it has been written (well, not "we", but Blur, you know what I mean).

Last edited by JWRodegher : 10-24-2012 at 09:38 PM.
 
Old 10-24-2012, 10:03 PM   #26
grantmoore3d
Geek Extraordinaire
 
grantmoore3d's Avatar
portfolio
Grant Moore
Creative Director
ComboMash Entertainment
Vancouver, Canada
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 1,281
My biggest concern with this is not whether or not they should have a project on KS or not, but rather, do the people supporting it actually understand what their money is going towards. The vast majority of KS projects are directly funding an end product and I think that's what most backers expect. Not everyone understands this business or even what a "story reel" means.
__________________
ComboMash Entertainment Inc
Website | Twitter | Facebook | IndieDB | PressKit
 
Old 10-24-2012, 10:05 PM   #27
th3ta
Veteran
 
th3ta's Avatar
portfolio
3d Artist
In a dark office, USA
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 739
Exactly, Blur and co. should just say screw Hollywood and produce some original IP that they can own 100% of. There's enough outlets these days for people to see it, to pay and see it.
 
Old 10-24-2012, 11:06 PM   #28
BrainFreeze
Know-it-All
portfolio
Mark Wellington
Everett, USA
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 311
Quote:
Originally Posted by th3ta
Exactly, Blur and co. should just say screw Hollywood and produce some original IP that they can own 100% of. There's enough outlets these days for people to see it, to pay and see it.

Completely agree with this. The whole appeal of Kickstarter to me is the hope of a future where we can remove the myriad of middle men and reward people who are actually producing things. have backed a number of projects, and if it would mean that MAFIAA would not get a dime from me I would gladly back this one as well. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be the case.

Kickstarter has great potential to disrupt current corrupt media machine that is Hollywood/Big labels and let them adapt or perish. Supporting projects which still use the old system for financing seems very unfair to the people who spend their hard earned cash to get nothing back.
 
Old 10-24-2012, 11:39 PM   #29
CGIPadawan
Part-Time Blenderite
 
CGIPadawan's Avatar
Giancarlo Ng
Quezon City, Philippines
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 6,886
Send a message via Yahoo to CGIPadawan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artbot
Someone posted a worthwhile podcast over in that "studio profits" thread and they are right: The production of a movie is a means to an end (appeal to wide audience, make $$$). They are not made because someone thinks The Goon would "make a cool movie."


Just want to point out that sometimes seeing $$$ and seeing "Cool movie" to a Producer are the same thing - Sometimes.

On topic: It's obvious they are doing this as plan B because no studio/producer in a higher rung supported "The Goon". This explains all the "Make it Happen!" language and semi-rebellious "Your Grandma will hate this movie" talk in the promo.

This is already Plan-B. If a studio was supposed to pay for this (and was willing) there would be no Kickstarter campaign.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Artbot
Tim Miller goes on at length to explain exactly what they are attempting to produce with this money, but I think he's still being a bit disingenuous about it. I believe that part of what donors are counting on is the (incorrect) belief that a story reel or pitch reel will automatically lead to the movie getting made - it won't. I think that's the deceptive aspect of this, and it takes advantage of people who may have little or no knowledge of how a Hollywood movie gets made.


And this.. this is a simple case of "Don't put your own money into your own movie."

Also, if the pitch fails altogether, Blur will present the Story Reel as "deliverable" from the KS campaign to appease the people who threw their money at it.

Problem solved.
__________________
"Your most creative work is pre-production, once the film is in production, demands on time force you to produce rather than create."
REVERSION

Last edited by CGIPadawan : 10-24-2012 at 11:43 PM.
 
Old 10-24-2012, 11:50 PM   #30
hypercube
frontier psychiatrist
 
hypercube's Avatar
portfolio
Daryl Bartley
vfx goon / gfx ho
hypercube
Los Angeles, USA
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,050
Like I said in the other thread, my biggest question is how someone with Fincher's clout couldn't either get the movie made directly, or pony up another 400k for the reel, or find a couple of friends who would? Has he been working for scale all these years?

How much of their own money have they already sunk into the earlier test footage, to the point they are not willing to waste more for something they supposedly believe so strongly in? I know Fincher was previously involved trying to get a new version of Heavy Metal going, maybe he is burned out on trying to back underground animation projects?

Also knowing how a lot of movies get sold or end up in development hell or such, this really seems like a weird last-ditch effort. As others have mentioned, why would a studio that passed on it like a dirty diaper previously, with the strength of that very well-done animation test and an allegedly decent script, suddenly turn around and greenlight it just because they have a complete story reel?
 
Thread Closed share thread


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright 2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 02:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.