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Old 10-10-2012, 11:09 PM   #46
bjohnston
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Check Out These Professional Reels.

If you are looking for examples, there are some really AMAZING reels here https://www.youtube.com/user/TheCGBro/featured. Not only do they have amazing professional reels from ILM, Digital Domain, WETA and Imageworks, but they have a truly inspirational experimental work from artists around the world from modelling to lighting to effects to animation. Definitely worth a look all.
 
Old 10-10-2012, 11:15 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanga

There are those who are dying to tell students and graduates the story about the real world. That work is realistic in the most boring sense and to give up fancy and fantasy and imagination. Mostly it comes from a lack of achieving a dreamed of position and having to settle for something not glamorous or fun to do themselves.


Well speaking as someone who more than fulfilled my own dreams regarding this industry, I can safely state that encouraging people to put stuff on their reel that's not so fantasy-oriented isn't about crushing their dreams. On the contrary, it's about improving their chances with studios. Despite having worked on numerous films over the years, only a handful of those have had monsters in them; the reality is that, as far as the film industry goes, studios are far more likely to need artists to create things like digi doubles, vehicles, and set extensions than monsters. A reel that demonstrates an artist's ability to exactly copy something from real life references is therefore more useful for a studio to gauge that person's ability to follow a brief, than a ZBrush monster that they created out of their heads.

Quote:
It is not how the world works it is how their world works. There is still fun to be had. This is an amazing profession that has not been one till recently. To attempt to crush peoples pursuit of joy in their work is annoying to me. Its more than a discussion of if monsters are more difficult to make than stars, although I hold my initial remark on it being an idiotic observation.


You're right that my description above is how "my" world works, but considering loads of hopefuls here are indeed dreaming of working in film VFX, my advice to that end is appropriate. With all due respect, your comment about this so-called "idiotic observation" is out of touch with the reality of the film VFX industry.

Tell me, have you ever made a totally realistic, perfectly matched digi double? Or are you just assuming that it's easier to do than monsters despite having no experience of creating both to compare? I don't mean for that to sound spikey, it's a sincere question. I've had to work on loads of digi doubles over the course of my career and they've all been challenging. Creating a generic realistic human isn't too hard, but a perfect match of a celebrity? That's a ton of work.

I remember when I was working on the last X-Men film, I had to texture a human foot for the one character when he transforms into Beast. That single foot took ages to do because to create a believable human body part is extremely difficult because every person seeing it knows exactly what it looks like. It's much, much harder to fool people with CG humans than monsters. And having worked on both over the years, I stand by this statement.

I don't think anyone is saying people shouldn't put monsters on their reels at all, but rather saying that a reel consisting entirely of fantasy stuff can be problematic in certain CG fields, with games being the notable exception. An artist's ability to work to a brief is absolutely essential to productivity in a studio production environment and the best way to demonstrate this on a reel is by showing everyday objects and characters, because we can compare them to the real thing.
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:34 PM   #48
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You are going to extremes as I find a statement about the skill involved in modeling a fantasy figure is more difficult than something that is recognizable an extreme and wildly inaccurate generalization. Go look in the cgchoice gallery, there are not that many good fantasy figures because they are har to make. It shows lack of understanding about what it takes to make something with impact that has less anchors or less recognition hits. I sketch stars with zbrush for practice as well as monstersoids for practice, non of which have reached stellar heights yet. I am not a monster activist I am an anti cumudgeonist.

In no way should folks fill their reels with flitty fairies, and in no way should they think modeling a car engine bolt for bolt is bad. I am just sick of hearing the fiinger waving speach about buckle down son and forget the dream stuff, make toilets. This bizz was started not long ago as a dream. Most of the people waving fingers have never made a model in their life, they only know about buying and selling in their own part of the universe and should not be giving advice that is extremely discouraging.

Your mileage may differ.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjohnston
Not only do they have amazing professional reels from ILM, Digital Domain, WETA and Imageworks, but they have a truly inspirational experimental work from artists around the world from modelling to lighting to effects to animation. Definitely worth a look all.


Oooh nice stuff!
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Old 10-10-2012, 11:54 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanga
You are going to extremes as I find a statement about the skill involved in modeling a fantasy figure is more difficult than something that is recognizable an extreme and wildly inaccurate generalization. Go look in the cgchoice gallery, there are not that many good fantasy figures because they are har to make. It shows lack of understanding about what it takes to make something with impact that has less anchors or less recognition hits. I sketch stars with zbrush for practice as well as monstersoids for practice, non of which have reached stellar heights yet. I am not a monster activist I am an anti cumudgeonist.


I must have missed the part where people said that making fantasy stuff is easy. Saying that creating a believable digi double of a celebrity is harder than a believable monster is not the same thing as saying that making a monster is easy.

Frankly I'm a little taken aback at your suggestion that I have a "lack of understanding" about what goes into making this stuff. I have films like Clash of the Titans, Pan's Labyrinth, a couple of Harry Potter films, and a Narnia film on my résumé. I know what goes into making creatures because I've worked on several for the big screen myself. I have a more than intimate, first hand experience of bringing creatures to life, otherwise I wouldn't be making the comparison.

But by all means, if you want to label experienced industry professionals as curmudgeons because we're giving people realistic and informed advice about what to put on their reels to improve their chances of getting hired, then go ahead.

Quote:
Most of the people waving fingers have never made a model in their life


I'm sorry but I simply can't get my head around how you can possibly make a statement like this. How can you possibly presume to know what "most" of the people with this view have done over the course of their careers?

Honestly, the apparent aggression in your post is entirely unwarranted. You're getting upset because people are posting advice that you don't personally like, but your personal taste doesn't change the reality of the industry.

People don't post advice to crush people's dreams. They post advice because they care enough about others to give them the right information to move forward. If you don't like the fact that people need to demonstrate the ability, first and foremost, to recreate everyday characters, environments and props, then your problem is with the industry and the fact that everyday scenarios are more common VFX builds than monsters, not the people posting advice.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:39 AM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leigh

People don't post advice to crush people's dreams. They post advice because they care enough about others to give them the right information to move forward. If you don't like the fact that people need to demonstrate the ability, first and foremost, to recreate everyday characters, environments and props, then your problem is with the industry and the fact that everyday scenarios are more common VFX builds than monsters, not the people posting advice.

Ha ha I knew you would latch onto the monsters.
Yes for your vfx area I guess it is important to make copies of real people. Your vfx area is not the only one though.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:43 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanga
I reckon you should ask yourself what kind of modeling job you want. The idiot that says it is easier to make a monster than a moviestar has never modeled a good monster. Quite frankly if I had to work for someone like that,... well I wouldn't.

I kinda have to agree with Leigh here. I only have experience in games but getting a 3d likeness of anyone is much more difficult than making a believable 3d monster. Both take a strong understanding of anatomy but when trying to get a likeness, people have something to compare it to and you have to work in those parameters .This is a great discussion though.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:54 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanga
Ha ha I knew you would latch onto the monsters.
Yes for your vfx area I guess it is important to make copies of real people. Your vfx area is not the only one though.


And I've repeatedly acknowledged the fact that I'm only speaking abut VFX.

But many, many, many people on this site want to break into VFX, including the person who posted this thread.
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:54 AM   #53
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Its ok guys you are wearing me down.

Cheerio
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Old 10-11-2012, 03:42 AM   #54
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Hey Chad, dont forget to check all the Atlanta based companies and anything else going on locally. The Animation Industry Database at awn should have some contacts for you. Also, search indeed using "3d modeling" + Georgia. I found a few 3d modeling gigs and short term projects. I can usually find quite a bit in Florida as well. It may not be VFX in large scale, but it is paying work creating 3d models for digital content. At this point, just getting your foot in any door will be a great start.

Good luck
 
Old 10-11-2012, 01:33 PM   #55
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Welp, I have to say I'm not sure if I've ever agreed with Leigh more. I know I know, how weak of me. hahaha But I'm not sure where this notion that you need to have wild, elaborate, strange fantasy work on your demo reel to get noticed came about. I'm also not saying fantasy creatures, monsters, spaceships cannot also be successful for a demo reel, but in my opinion, they are needed far less in the industry. And that includes games as well. How many games need a well made human male in the last 5 I played? Call of Duty MW3 (soldiers, citizens), Arkham Asylum (hooligans, citizens, etc.), Borderlands (gangsters, citizens), Witcher 2 (townsfolk, witchers), The Old Republic (everyone), Assasins Creed 3 (everyone). How many need monsters? Borderlands skags which I guess are strange dogs and Witcher 2 a few times. My point is in the end, whether you have realistic items on your demo reel or strange creatures/spacecraft it's always gonna come down to excellence. In my opinion, it's going to be far easier to get the reference needed for real world items. Shrug
Here is the number one most viewed demo reel of 2012 on cgtalk. I hope Mike doesn't mind the free publicity. http://vimeo.com/35489477
Let me repeat that. A site of half a million members and here was the highest rated and viewed demo reel of 2012. Let's take a look at his content. He has 4 major items. That's it! 4!!! So what are they? 1. Obligatory female face 2. Obligatory female + obligatory gun and sword 3. Obligatory sports car! 4. Obligatory hand gun! So what's the difference between his reel and yours? All elements of his craftsmanship in 3D art are still at a far higher level than yours and are polished to a masterpiece level. Especially lighting which I think is the most important feature in making beautiful images. It's not really your content dude. If you had made an Ipad so realistic that it could go into a print ad of a magazine and nobody could notice, you'd get phone calls.
So what can you do? If it were me, I'd have some ground up options. Meaning traditional art for where you are lacking and to focus your overall artistic eye in general. Your modeling is WAY ahead of your lighting, and it even needs more work. So go down to the local art center and sign up for a photography course and invest in yourself. Learn about lighting, boxes, exposure, depth of field, color, composition, etc. Then get a couple gnomon lighting videos from people you respect and take it to 11.
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Last edited by MrPositive : 10-15-2012 at 08:40 PM.
 
Old 10-13-2012, 02:06 AM   #56
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This is an interesting discussion. I think showing wire frames is dated. If you are making a character it makes a bit of sense to show you know where things bend,but if you are making a car or an iPhone the topology doesn't really matter if it renders nice. Lighting and rendering your model shows employers that you have a dedication to making things look good.
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Old 10-13-2012, 02:06 AM   #57
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