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Old 10 October 2012   #31
Originally Posted by Twimmy: Hey guys quick question,

What are your thoughts on artists showing work on there portfolios that is from tutorials/workshops? While searching 3D Artist websites and Concept Art for inspiration I've come across multiple sites that show work from tutorials. The most recognizable one that pops up is from a CG Workshop by Jon Rush, his Modern Game Art Weapon. Is this frowned upon?


Including work from tutorials is definately frowned upon. I don't think including work from the workshops is equivelent, though, as it's not a step by step tutorial; rather, students are given concept art and a few tips on getting through tricky parts. (full disclosure, I have that very gun in my portfolio. If other people disagree with my asessment, I'd certainly like to hear it)
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Old 10 October 2012   #32
I would have to agree. Tutorials should be used to learn new techniques to be applied to your own work. Not as a step by step for a new portfolio piece.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #33
Quote: Including work from tutorials is definately frowned upon. I don't think including work from the workshops is equivelent, though, as it's not a step by step tutorial; rather, students are given concept art and a few tips on getting through tricky parts. (full disclosure, I have that very gun in my portfolio. If other people disagree with my asessment, I'd certainly like to hear it)


I got my first job in games based directly on work I produced in a ten week online workshop, I had a degree beforehand but it really took my work up a level. So it definitely can and has worked. Its about applying the instruction. Step by step tutorials where you produce exactly what they produce is not something I ever did, what's the point when you can just as easily make something new right
 
Old 10 October 2012   #34
Okay that's fair. Guess I shouldn't have lumped both of those catagories together. But a 10 week workshop seems more like a class
 
Old 10 October 2012   #35
Also something to consider, if you show work that's been shared and used, HR would see your reel as a generic one. Do your best to stand out in the best way possible.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #36
Twimmy,
Although I am not a modeler, I totally understand the boat you are in as I have been in a similar boat. I don't have everything figured out yet...by that I mean, I don't really have an industry job yet (currently doing structural drafting ← a story for another time). Anyways, I have learned some things a long the way:
1. Patience! Seriously, we live in an "I don't want to wait" society and we can easily get discouraged when something doesn't happen according to our time table. So don't get discouraged and don't give up just because you can't live your dream immediately.
2. Don't resent this "in between" time in your life. I have found I have learned and grown in other ways during this time... like I figured out one of my main life's purposes that is true no matter what occupation I do. This revelation is invaluable to me. (In case you are wondering what it is: It's to bring other people joy! )
3. *Note this one is more personal, but I'll share it anyways since it's important to me : God has a perfect plan for my life, he knows where I am at, and has me exactly where I need to be. His timing is perfect and the best is yet to come. I really struggled with this one, but God has proven to me it's validity.

As far as your modeling portfolio goes. I saw this on the RFXU Fb page the other day and thought it might be helpful for you. Copied and paste word for word:
Yesterday I was asked to crit' an applicants reel who wanted to be a modeler - I wrote the following and sent it along its way. I thought I'd post the email here as well. A word of warning - it was late in the day and I've had a sinus thing for a week now that has me looking longingly at an ice pick top open things up so it may come off as a lil, ummm, shall we say cranky. Still I stand by the opinion offered.

R.

Ok, my thoughts – please keep in mind that I am hopped up on Dayquil as I write this:

At an animation or vfx studio modelers (which is what this guy wants to be) model what we show them we want built. If we want a turkey built, as a timely example, we don’t just say, “Hey, build me a turkey” and then head out to lunch. We give them drawings of what our turkey should look like. We show them maquettes that we paid top dollar for to show them what our turkey should look like. And on and on – at no time does the modeler really get to make their idea of a turkey – they build our turkey. Period. End.

90% of recent graduates who want to be modelers fill their reels with stuff they have made up. They will build a fantasy creature, a cartoony car, a scary tree, whatever strikes their fancy – this tells us nothing. Case in point this guy’s reel. He’s built a bunch of stuff but shown me nothing of his skills. He should, in my never to be humble, opinion throw it all away and do this instead:

Show reference of a car – I don’t care what kinda car; just make sure it’s a real car. Then he should build that car in CG. Not his idea of what the car should be, not his artistic interpretation of the car – just build the damn car. And build every teeny-weenie detail, if there are 5 lug nuts in reality – there should be 5 on the model, etc. I should look at the model and say, “Wow, that’s a _________ and look at all the detail, that’s awesome”.

Next, show reference of a movie star – pick one, anyone, male, female – I don’t care, just make sure they are a big star that everyone will recognize. Then he should build a model of that movie star – every detail. If he or she has a gap in their teeth or a cute lil dimple in their chin that detail must be in the model. Extra points if it’s a girl, girls are harder than guys. Ugly is easier than pretty. Don’t believe me? Draw me a very pretty girl, now draw me a monster – what was easier?

Next show me a hand prop – a gun, a cell phone, whatever – but it should be really complicated – lots of detail, then build it, etc. See comments above – I should be able to look at the CG model and say, “Well, looky there, that’s a ____________________ and look at all the detail – it looks real!”

Building stuff that you make up is easy because who can dispute it not looking like you intended it to look? No one, that’s who! A modeler who can model stuff we recognize is a skilled modeler.
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Old 10 October 2012   #37
@mybutterflyiris - thanks for posting that, always had the same feeling when it came to modeling. Hopefully that can be really helpful to other artists trying to beak into the industry. And you're right, this is what I want to do and I just can't give up if things aren't going my way. It just means I have to working harder.

So with that being said, here's the plan going forward. Took razorbjc's advice and searched around for some concept vehicles and found one I like. The plan is to model and texture it in Maya/Photoshop. Then comp it into an environment that I'll create with Vue. Hopefully with everyone's help/suggestions I can get the textures, lighting, and renders adjusted and have a production quality piece for my portfolio. I'll get a WIP thread going soon and link over to it when its all set up.

Let me know what you guys think.
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Old 10 October 2012   #38
Originally Posted by mybutterflyiris: 90% of recent graduates who want to be modelers fill their reels with stuff they have made up.

Yes,... is design?

I know this man who write email, he 'King of Lightwave'.
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Old 10 October 2012   #39
Your new plan sounds like making a modeled copy of someone else's model (this looks like a Sketchup model). If you want to work from someone else's concept, it's considered good form to ask their permission and confirm that it doesn't already exist as a model in someone's portfolio. Also, it's a much better display of modeling skills to build from just one or two views. As a modeler, it's fairly rare to get multi-view blueprints to build from. A big part of modeling is using your own deductive skills and imagination to fill in the gaps of a concept sketch.
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Old 10 October 2012   #40
mybutterflyiris hit the nail on the head. All I ever see from grad reels is fantasy crap as well and without any true design or consideration for engineering and functionality.

When we contract out modeling, its usually maritime vessels (cruise ships & bulk carriers), cars and trucks that are not easily found due to age and commonality (people dont often wreck exotics or new cars). All our work required also has to be dead on accurate.

I would agree that displaying real world complex objects would likely be more marketable. It may not be as fun and can be quite tedious and mundane, but that is what may get you hired.

You should check into the companies that contract to the DOD. They do a crapload modeling military props, vehicles and environments.

For reference I would either look at reels from students that are actually getting jobs and work and modeling reels from industry pros.

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 10 October 2012 at 01:18 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #41
I reckon you should ask yourself what kind of modeling job you want. The idiot that says it is easier to make a monster than a moviestar has never modeled a good monster. Quite frankly if I had to work for someone like that,... well I wouldn't.
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Old 10 October 2012   #42
Originally Posted by Kanga: I reckon you should ask yourself what kind of modeling job you want. The idiot that says it is easier to make a monster than a moviestar has never modeled a good monster. Quite frankly if I had to work for someone like that,... well I wouldn't.


I agree with that "idiot". Of course a good monster is very difficult to model, but what he meant is that it is much easier to get away with stuff. The famous person is.... famous, so everyone knows how he or she should look like. Show me a monster, and I have no idea how it should look like. It would sell if it has decent proportions and anatomy, but the main thing would be the design, something that isn't expected of most modelers anyway.

I totally agree that showing you can hit a reference spot on is better than a fantasy thing you just made up, in most cases.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #43
Originally Posted by Kanga: I reckon you should ask yourself what kind of modeling job you want. The idiot that says it is easier to make a monster than a moviestar has never modeled a good monster. Quite frankly if I had to work for someone like that,... well I wouldn't.


Errrr I actually tend to agree with the person you're calling an idiot. With a monster, you have a lot more room for experimentation as nobody has anything real to compare it to, which gives you a lot of leeway. With a digi double, however, you have problems with the uncanny valley, plus it has to be absolutely, absolutely spot-on or else it won't look like the actor.

I've worked on numerous monsters and digi doubles in my career, and digi doubles have definitely been harder, with supervisors subjecting them to far more ruthless scrutiny.
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Old 10 October 2012   #44
Mod hat off.

There are those who are dying to tell students and graduates the story about the real world. That work is realistic in the most boring sense and to give up fancy and fantasy and imagination. Mostly it comes from a lack of achieving a dreamed of position and having to settle for something not glamorous or fun to do themselves.

They are very accurate when describing the field they are involved in. It is not how the world works it is how their world works. There is still fun to be had. This is an amazing profession that has not been one till recently. To attempt to crush peoples pursuit of joy in their work is annoying to me. Its more than a discussion of if monsters are more difficult to make than stars, although I hold my initial remark on it being an idiotic observation.

I once met an art director who was livid that he kept seeing dark subjects from 3d artists. He screamed: why cant they make little cartoon cars that go beep beep!? I told this to an artist friend of mine and he said we don't make stuff like that because it is too easy,... and no fun at all.

Your mileage may differ.
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Old 10 October 2012   #45
I'm skipping over reading almost all posts in the thread after Leigh's to divert you back to making new work.

A good friend of mine spent some time looking for just the right concept art on this website:
http://conceptart.org/

When he found what he was looking for (a superbly cool single character concept), he politely emailed the illustrator and they had a dialog about permission for him to build the asset in 3d.

So my pal did turn out a fantastic model and he has been well praised for it. So if you find yourself at a loss creatively, but you still want to strengthen your chops technically, find some concept piece you love and get to work. NAO!

-John
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