Disturbing Uses of a 3D Printer

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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by leigh: You can't print leather or cloth to make shoes from. And as for guns, as a poster above me mentioned, you'd still need ammunition, and your printer can't make you gun powder.

People seem to be confused between a machine that essentially cuts shapes, and a machine that produces raw materials from nothing. A printer is the former, not the latter.



I dont think thats the issue here, i think its more about being able to make a replica from home. If it looks real enough and its pointed directly at you, youd still feel threatened. Didnt read the article btw, just my initial thoughts.
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  10 October 2012
Oh I'm not really referring to the article as such, I was just expanding more on the topic of printing generally.
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leighvanderbyl.com
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by leigh: This is my perspective too. I fail to understand the fear that kids will be printing their own Nike shoes and guns. For the former, you'd need the raw materials, which would be far more hassle than simply buying a pair of shoes. You can't print leather or cloth to make shoes from. And as for guns, as a poster above me mentioned, you'd still need ammunition, and your printer can't make you gun powder.

People seem to be confused between a machine that essentially cuts shapes, and a machine that produces raw materials from nothing. A printer is the former, not the latter.

I think you underestimate the flexibility of these things. Even with the current diy printers you can already print several different materials simultanously, among them elastic material as well as very rigid and wear resistend stuff. Printing useable shoes is well within reach.
Cheers
Björn
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The views expressed on this post are my personal opinions and do not represent the views of my employer.
 
  10 October 2012
I don't see the need to drag 3d printers through the mud. At the end of my senior year in high school I made a full auto sten machine gun from plumbing parts with my dad. We shot it all summer and then destroyed it but I never forgot how easy it was to make. Hell you can make a single shot ZIP gun in 20 min. This demonizing 3D printers is for the birds.

Last edited by azamux : 10 October 2012 at 01:40 PM.
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by leigh: Wait, what? Where did I stereotype you? You waded into the thread making a blanket (and outright false) statement about an entire continent of people. In doing so, you not only disregarded the facts, but also considered Europe as a single entity as opposed to a collection of 50 different countries, each with their own culture, attitude and laws. You're epitomising a negative stereotype of Americans that gets bandied about here constantly, a stereotype of ignorant loudmouths who care nothing about making ill-informed statements about other countries. I didn't stereotype you, you stereotyped yourself. Next time you want to make statements about other cultures, find out what you're talking about first.

And I don't for one second buy your excuse now that you were joking. Because you weren't. At least have the decency to admit you were wrong instead of doing some feeble back peddling.


After three hours reviewing EU gun regulations as well as laws in many European nations, I stand by my phobia comment, at least at a legislative level. European gun laws are even more restrictive then the laws are here in Calif, one of the most restrictive states in the US. I see a systemic fear of public gun ownership, both in certain population segments in the US and across the EU. I won't even get into the gun laws in the UK.

I didn't intend a thread hijack. I think the hysteria about people 3D printing guns in their basement is just that, hysteria.
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IPA time...

Last edited by wurger : 10 October 2012 at 04:19 PM.
 
  10 October 2012
Perhaps my country is years behind US, so excuse me to ask.. does printed guns really work? I meant, If I get some ammunition, can I just put the ammunition on the printed chamber and start shooting???

I thought we can only print Kelly LeBrock in our dreams back in the eighties.
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by luisRiera: Perhaps my country is years behind US, so excuse me to ask.. does printed guns really work? I meant, If I get some ammunition, can I just put the ammunition on the printed chamber and start shooting???

I thought we can only print Kelly LeBrock in our dreams back in the eighties.


The issue right now is that the printed materials aren't capable of withstanding the force of a gun firing, otherwise they probably would have had printed guns a long time ago.
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The Z-Axis
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by luisRiera: Perhaps my country is years behind US, so excuse me to ask.. does printed guns really work? I meant, If I get some ammunition, can I just put the ammunition on the printed chamber and start shooting???

I thought we can only print Kelly LeBrock in our dreams back in the eighties.

Check the original source on this, what was actually printed wasn't a complete gun but only the part with the registration number on it. All parts that are exposed to high pressure (barrell, chamber, etc) can't be printed with standard 3D printers, except you want them to explode in your face.

John: This might not be the plattform for such a discussion, but maybe start thinking about why you can safely move in any city in Germany, France, UK, ... at any time without any worry to be a victim in a drive by shooting, robbery etc. , while in the US you can't.
Why have german policemen fired less than 200 shots in all of one year?
What is the difference that makes some people feel safe and others fear for their lifes without weapons? What can be done to change things so US citizens don't feel compelled to have to carry weapons to protect their lifes? Don't you think it is a bit odd that one of the presumably most civilized societies in the world isn't able to protect its members while others can?
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The views expressed on this post are my personal opinions and do not represent the views of my employer.
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Srek: Don't you think it is a bit odd that one of the presumably most civilized societies in the world isn't able to protect its members


That's a very generous compliment. However, while not least civilized, it would be a real stretch to come close to most civilized. LOL
 
  10 October 2012
I'm sure there are plenty of bad neighborhoods in Berlin, London, Paris, and Madrid you wouldn't visit at night, even if the criminals aren't likely to have firearms.

City names above chosen at random and do not imply any particular bias against these cities or their residents.
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IPA time...
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by wurger: After three hours reviewing EU gun regulations as well as laws in many European nations, I stand by my phobia comment, at least at a legislative level. European gun laws are even more restrictive then the laws are here in Calif, one of the most restrictive states in the US. I see a systemic fear of public gun ownership, both in certain population segments in the US and across the EU. I won't even get into the gun laws in the UK.

I didn't intend a thread hijack. I think the hysteria about people 3D printing guns in their basement is just that, hysteria.


How can it be a phobia when so many people own guns? A phobia is an irrational fear. I don't think it's irrational nor indicative of fear to regulate in law the ownership of weapons. I see that as common sense, much like regulating and restricting the ownership and use of vehicles to adults, as there's a degree of responsibility and maturity required. Do you also view vehicle laws as irrationally fearful? I doubt it. Yet they are there for the same reason that gun laws are; to ensure that the people owning and using them are responsible enough.

Personally I dislike guns and would never own one. It's not because I'm irrationally afraid of them, it's because I find them distasteful and largely unnecessary. Having grown up in an extremely violent country, I have no desire to participate in the ownership of weapons myself. It's not an irrational fear, it's a personal choice made on an entirely rational level. Especially considering that I now live in a more peaceful country. The likelihood of being a victim of crime is low enough that I can't be bothered wasting time fretting about it, let alone arming myself in case it happens.

It's therefore rather ironic that you call the EU phobic for its tight regulation laws, when I'd consider it rather paranoid to have a personal arsenal. After all, isn't it out of fear that people arm themselves? I lived for quite a while in the States and consider it the most fearful place I've ever been, and I've visited a lot of places around the world for comparison. The level of paranoia that the average American has about crime and terrorism is really quite bizarre to outsiders. By comparison, European countries are largely far more laid back. People mostly tend to own weapons here for sport, not out of a fear of being a victim of crime.
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leighvanderbyl.com
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by wurger: I'm sure there are plenty of bad neighborhoods in Berlin, London, Paris, and Madrid you wouldn't visit at night, even if the criminals aren't likely to have firearms.


But what exactly is your point? I've lived in London and have visited Paris a number of times as well as Berlin, and of course there are neighbourhoods that may be a tad shady after dark, but that doesn't really stop you from going there. Just last weekend I was walking by myself through Bermondsey in London, an area rather notorious for crackheads and gangs, at night. And I was fine. You can't let fear invade your life to the extent that you avoid certain areas on the off chance that you may fall victim to crime. And I think that's the point Srek was making. Around here, people don't waste time or energy worrying about that stuff. Does crime happen? Sure, but that doesn't mean it should control your movements or attitude.
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leighvanderbyl.com
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by wurger: I'm sure there are plenty of bad neighborhoods in Berlin, London, Paris, and Madrid you wouldn't visit at night, even if the criminals aren't likely to have firearms.

City names above chosen at random and do not imply any particular bias against these cities or their residents.

In germany a bad neighbourhood is where you find dealers, petty thieves, illegal prostitution etc.
Your chances of coming to bodily harm when just walking through are effectively zero. If you take part in the shady activities in those areas your risk of injury increases, your risk of death is still practically zero.
The difference is that a bad neighbourhood in europe isn't exactly the same as in the US.
One personal question. If you were invited to visit Berlin or Frankfurt, would you feel unprotected and in danger? You could not take any weapons with you and you would find it hard to obtain any kind of gun in europe. Would you still be willing to leave your hotel at night to go on a stroll through the city?
I did in London, Berlin, Frankfurt, Paris, Cologne, Amsterdam and others and at no point i was in any real danger or felt as if i were. I did not do this in LA and Miami. Where would you do it?
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The views expressed on this post are my personal opinions and do not represent the views of my employer.
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by leigh: But what exactly is your point? I've lived in London and have visited Paris a number of times as well as Berlin, and of course there are neighbourhoods that may be a tad shady after dark, but that doesn't really stop you from going there. Just last weekend I was walking by myself through Bermondsey in London, an area rather notorious for crackheads and gangs, at night. And I was fine. You can't let fear invade your life to the extent that you avoid certain areas on the off chance that you may fall victim to crime. And I think that's the point Srek was making. Around here, people don't waste time or energy worrying about that stuff. Does crime happen? Sure, but that doesn't mean it should control your movements or attitude.


My point was in response to Shrek's implication that all cities in Europe are "oh so safe" while US cities are gritty crime fests. Yes, there is crime in the US, and there are bad areas. But I can't believe that there aren't some pretty crappy areas in European cities where many people wouldn't feel safe, even with Europe's stringent gun laws. The idea that the "average American" is afraid to leave the house because they will bet mugged or carjacked is another stereotype. Europe is no more a bastion of peace and tranquility than the US is a wild west shooting gallery.

The OP (from the UK) was concerned that 3D printers could be used to create illegal guns and that maybe public access to 3D printers should be restricted until this "issue" can be addressed. That smacks of an irrational fear to me. I'll stand right up and say that I personally believe that the gun laws in the UK are idiotic and border on draconian. I should have kept my original paranoia comment directed strictly at the UK. It was unfair of me to include the rest of Europe in my comment, and for that I apologize.

Leigh, if anyone waded into this thread it is you. You accuse me of stereotyping, yet every one of your posts in response to mine are full of stereotypes and generalizations. Not every US gun owner cowers in their home, guns clenched in sweaty hands, fearing some murderous perp is about to kick down their door. Or darts around running their errands while cringing in terror they are about to be assaulted.

This has been taken far beyond anything I intended.
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IPA time...
 
  10 October 2012
There are shady places in Vienna to go at night, there are prostitutes, junkies, drug dealers, drunks, east european mafia, whatever, but I could easily walk this places and wouldn't be harmed.
It's not so easy for girls though, there is sexual harassment. But there is no gang violence and street robbing is very rare.
Only people I keep fair distance are nazi skinheads and football fans, especially british and german ones. They can beat you up but at least they have no guns, that's for sure. You can say what you want about american vs european culture, and I like many things about america (kill me but I'm against healthcare the way it runs here, considering what I pay and what I get in return) but there's no question that it's a great benefit for everyone when there are no guns, that's for sure.
 
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