Disturbing Uses of a 3D Printer

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Old 10 October 2012   #16
Originally Posted by DePaint: I think there is going to be a day, in the not too distant future, where every apartment building has a high-fidelity multi-material 3D Printer sitting in the downstairs lobby.

You'll go through physical products in an online store and - let's say - choose an X2A model Smartphone to print.

You'll then click "Purchase & Send to 3D Printer".

10 minutes later you X2A Smartphone will be ready to pick up and use in the building lobby.

I like this vision of the future. Food replicators are next right?
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Old 10 October 2012   #17
Originally Posted by WyattHarris: However in the US, having one of these means you are facing the real deal with a knock-off. Not exactly intimidating.


Oh, please. What you are depicting here is some kind of fantasy-based, Dirty Harry scenario that likely will not happen. What could happen is that some kid downloads some plans and cobbles together a weapon (gun or otherwise) and gets his buddy whose dad has a printer in his machine shop to print one, or some similar scenario.

No, they won't be practical for rampant illegal use for some time, but kids will always experiment. Jeez, just watch what idiots do on youtube, then apply that to printing your own weapons. They may not be super-effective, and almost definitely not safe, but they will be made and they will eventually blow up in someone's face. Or the face of a kid next to them in school. Or the neighbor kid's face because the idiot kid who made it didn't think it was a "real gun."

I guarantee that the first time this happens, politicians will be climbing over each other to outlaw this "terrible new device that has fallen into the hands of our children!"
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Old 10 October 2012   #18
Originally Posted by Darkherow: So while I was reading the news today, I came across this-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-19813382

I found it disturbing that people would want to print out a gun and even share the files online, so that others can print their own gun. In my opinion I'm glad the printing company stopped them, however there's also the chance of someone already done this without them knowing.

I can understand the good of the technology and that it is leading to every home having a 3D printer one day, but don't people think that there needs to be a limit for public use until a system is in place before people can manufacture anything from a gun to a nike trainer?

This whole issue has been blown out of proportion. As others have said, making your own gun is nothing new.
I, for one, am fascinated by the prospect and am disappointed that the research that Defense Distributed worked on has been halted.
I hope that they are able to to simply purchase another 3D printer outright.
Like it or not, weapons research has ALWAYS contributed to what we rely on every day in society.
Peace.
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Old 10 October 2012   #19
Originally Posted by Artbot: Oh, please. What you are depicting here is some kind of fantasy-based, Dirty Harry scenario that likely will not happen. What could happen is that some kid downloads some plans and cobbles together a weapon (gun or otherwise) and gets his buddy whose dad has a printer in his machine shop to print one, or some similar scenario.

Lol, do you walk around all day with the notion that no one ever wishes to do you harm or are you relying on your Bruce Lee reflexes for survival? Why do you carry a gun, to protect yourself from the exact scenario you label as fantasy. Now to be fair, the scenario you describe is also just as likely. I'm sure we will hear about some dumb kid who blew his hand off and is partially blind because of a homemade gun exploding in his hand. I call that natural selection. I have a relative who teaches homebound kids and there were quite a few over the years who blew their hands off with homemade explosives. Why didn't I or you do that, because we were taught better.

Originally Posted by Darkherow: I just wanted to point out that teenagers or young adults may want to use these self made weapons, as they can't obtain through legal means and don't know how to obtain one from illegal means, but can print one out with the press of a button.

Most kids in this part of the country receive their first gun before the age of 10 as a gift from a parent or grandparent. You then teach them responsible ownership and use of a firearm, marksmanship. The gun is no longer this taboo object but a tool. It has a purpose and its not a toy.

I realize this is OT from the main conversation but I find it very important. Kids need to be taught about guns by a responsible adult before their bored minds get them in trouble and they do something stupid because well, teenagers are stupid.
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Old 10 October 2012   #20
Some people are going to be stupid - with or without a machine that can print components to assemble into potentially dangerous objects. I think there is indeed a likelihood that people will use a 3D printer for illegitimate reasons (like making guns that'll blow up in their face or downloading bootleg designs), but the potential for benefit is so much greater. The fear is irrational. Someone would have to be knowledgeable and wealthy enough to iterate through countless modifications before they have a functional weapon. It's not like a replicator in Star Trek. If they're clever enough to produce a functional firearm, they're clever enough to find several other ways to hurt people with easier, less-exhaustive means. This is sensational.

But let's look at what this particular group was producing... They had to raise $20k just to make a "gun" with no moving parts. That likely means single shot, nothing as sophisticated as what you can buy much cheaper, legally or illegally. I just don't foresee this being a substantial threat any time soon. We have more to fear from reactionary legislation over hysteria than we do masses of criminals printing off firearms.

Personally, if I had access to a machine like this as a teen, I would have produced ballistas. I've read those are quite dangerous in the wrong hands.
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Old 10 October 2012   #21
Of all the things that could be printed....

...mankind.... just... Wow....
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Old 10 October 2012   #22
Would you seriously want to print a 3d gun and stick it next to you face and pull the trigger?
Most people don't and the people that do will quickly remove themselves from the gene pool.

The parts that can be printed are just the receiver and stock etc. The Barrel, Firing pin, Chamber, bolt carriage need to be made of metal and machined.

Yes metal 3d printers will become more common but I think they will still be insanely expensive. The people that will do bad things with a gun will always find it easier to steal or buy a cheap gun than learn how to do 3d and print one out.

The world has a plethora of cheap weapons. I don't think we need to worry much about home brewed weapons. You can make a flame thrower with a super soaker and PVC pipe.
you don't see people doing it much.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #23
I think the number of people who fall into the category of "using a 3D printer to make a gun" is ridiculously small. People are acting like you just download a couple blueprint, hit print and then suddenly a functional weapon comes out. I guarantee you it's easier to go out on the street and find a handgun on the black market than it is to manufacture your own. This is a hobby project, there's no reason to have stopped it.
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Old 10 October 2012   #24
Originally Posted by WyattHarris: Lol, do you walk around all day with the notion that no one ever wishes to do you harm or are you relying on your Bruce Lee reflexes for survival?


I'm glad I don't live my life in this kind of fear. I don't carry a gun and don't need one.

Originally Posted by WyattHarris: Why do you carry a gun, to protect yourself from the exact scenario you label as fantasy.


All it takes is a glance at the crime blotter in this country of 360 million people to see that this is a statistically insignificant occurrence, even with the huge number of guns we have here.

Originally Posted by WyattHarris: Now to be fair, the scenario you describe is also just as likely. I'm sure we will hear about some dumb kid who blew his hand off and is partially blind because of a homemade gun exploding in his hand. I call that natural selection.


And the media and politicians are always looking for a scapegoat. It it happens (and it will, eventually), there will be screaming and finger-pointing a-plenty. Not saying it's right, just that it will happen.

Originally Posted by WyattHarris: I have a relative who teaches homebound kids and there were quite a few over the years who blew their hands off with homemade explosives. Why didn't I or you do that, because we were taught better.


I'd like to think so. But I experimented with a lot of chemicals and explosives doing special effects work, and only through a rough mix of smarts and extreme caution do I still have all my digits and facial hair.


Originally Posted by WyattHarris: Most kids in this part of the country receive their first gun before the age of 10 as a gift from a parent or grandparent. You then teach them responsible ownership and use of a firearm, marksmanship. The gun is no longer this taboo object but a tool. It has a purpose and its not a toy.


While this sounds extreme to me and my pacifist, blue-state upbringing, I realize this in the case with a large part of the country. But I have a childhood friend who was shot dead even though he was trained and armed. People screw up and fail in their judgement - frequently. Now, I'm not saying guns or 3d printers should be totally outlawed, but curiosity always finds a way. Kids are inventive and often unsafe. Who knows - a weird 3D printing fad could spread where kids design a bunch of weapons and trade them like Pokemons. Weirder things have happened. All I'm saying is there's a tremendous potential for mayhem here, whether it happens next month or 10 years from now.

Originally Posted by WyattHarris: Kids need to be taught about guns by a responsible adult before their bored minds get them in trouble and they do something stupid because well, teenagers are stupid.

No argument there.
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Old 10 October 2012   #25
I realise this is pretty OT but:

Originally Posted by WyattHarris: Lol, do you walk around all day with the notion that no one ever wishes to do you harm or are you relying on your Bruce Lee reflexes for survival?


I think all reasonable adults realise that there are bad people in this world but you should understand that despite that, many of us still choose not to arm ourselves or obsess paranoidly about it. I grew up in an extremely violent country, I (like everyone else from my country) know people who have been murdered, raped, hijacked and had their homes invaded by AK-47 wielding brutes. This year alone I've had an uncle murdered as well as family members held up by home invaders with assault weapons. I still think guns are vile, abhorrent things designed solely to maim and destroy other living beings, and as an atheist who believes this is the only life any of us have, I'll never arm myself with a tool of destruction that could take away that life from someone, no matter how terrible they may be. You're right that there is a huge cultural divide when it comes to guns but don't presume necessarily that your way is the right way. This is a far more complex and personal subject than simply suggesting that those who don't arm themselves are naive.

Frankly I find the fact that people want to print guns profoundly sad and a tragic indicator of the times we live in.
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Old 10 October 2012   #26
Just wanted to add that guns sans receivers are not guns but "Machine Parts".

You don't need to 3D print the entire gun, a knowledgeable person wanting to create "phantom guns" can simply procure the rest of the weapon, and 3D print the receiver.

It may still malfunction, but getting a 3D printed receiver is easier than trying to make the whole gun.

I've read a journal where someone used this method and basically the result is "one unregistered working firearm".
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Old 10 October 2012   #27
People could make their own firearms for ages, all you need is access to a mill shop. You can probably even make a gun in your own garage which is a lot more durable and potent, so how is this different?

We can all be paranoid or we can realize that anyone, at any time, can kill you. How about knives? Chainsaws? Cars on the road? Some maniac can run you over on a red light!

Thankfully we have a society (in most parts of the world and USA) where trust still overpowers paranoia and people don't wear machine guns and bullet proof vests on them at all times "just in case".

This reminds me of a recent article about how mandating people to wear bike helmets actually causes more deaths. Mostly because it makes people believe that biking is more dangerous than it is and thus avoid it, instead succumbing to heart disease and making it worse for the rest of the population. Paranoia breeds insanity.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #28
Well there is such a thing as cosplay. The guns that go with the costumes are props. I would rather little chaps run about with a hollow print than get into dad's arsenal.

Still, the scene leigh sketched chills me to the bone.
If we could only heed Ted and Bill's advice and be excellent to one another, oh well.
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Old 10 October 2012   #29
Originally Posted by DePaint
The bad thing about what this idiot is doing, is that it may lead to "surveillance" of all future 3D Printers.

In other words, every time you print a 3D part, a digital file would be sent to the government so a human supervisor - or an automated algorithm - can check whether you are printing weapons parts.

This would mean that there would be no privacy/confidentially to 3D parts you print, as each time you do, a digital copy of the 3D part would be sent to a government data center.



That's not possible, but I'm sure they would consider the banning of 3D printers because of it. And I only mean considering, they couldn't actually do it.


They don't send the info to the data police (that we know of), but secret printer tracking is already in use on every inkjet printer sold (as a way to trace printed docs to a specific location or machine). I could see something very similar being adopted for use in 3d printing.
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Last edited by Artbot : 10 October 2012 at 05:53 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #30
Leaving aside European gun phobias, I sure as heck wouldn't want to shoot anything some joker printed out on his 3D printer. Some perp blazing away with his 3D printed firearm is likely to be more of a threat to himself than others.

I'm a nutty American, and a competitive shooter. Between practice and competition I typically shoot 1000+ rounds a week. I wouldn't shoot a single round through some faux firearm that someone cooked up on their 3D printer. I like my face as it is.
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