Talent shows: MOD EDIT: (NY TIMES): — The War Between Capital and Talent.

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Old 09 September 2012   #1
Talent shows: MOD EDIT: (NY TIMES): — The War Between Capital and Talent.



This is a very apt article and and echo's many of the problems that VFX vendors and VFX artists are having.

b

MOD EDIT (Roberto)

Editing the post to make the point more clear:
Quote from the article:"

"But why the lockout (NFL ), and why did the N.F.L. fight so hard? Because the league was fighting a bigger fight, one that is representative of a war beneath the surface of the modern economy — the war between capital and talent.

Since the Industrial Revolution, two groups have fought for the spoils of their joint production. On one side is capital — the owners and investors who provide the means of production. On the other side is labor — the workers who turn invested capital into profits. Traditionally, capital wielded disproportionate power.

As late as the early 20th century, capital brutally suppressed labor and ground down wages to subsistence levels. But labor fought back, aided by Congress, which passed the National Labor Relations Act in 1935. The act paved the way for big increases in unionized labor wages, and union participation tripled.

Inevitably, capital fought back. Through the 1970s, owners moved jobs to Sun Belt right-to-work states. They automated, outsourced and worked to diminish the power of unions. When Ronald Reagan crushed the air traffic controllers’ union in 1981, it was a clear signal: labor had finally been forced to capitulate entirely.

But around this time, a dangerous new adversary to capital emerged: talent. Talent, in contrast to the more generic labor, is highly skilled and portable. And in the 1970s, talent began to flex its muscles. In Hollywood, artists demanded “percentage deals” rather than straight compensation (see George Lucas’s profit share on the “Star Wars” films). On Wall Street, investment managers demanded 20 percent of the upside on top of the traditional 2 percent of assets under management. In executive suites, C.E.O.’s accrued stock-based compensation so that they could share the upside with the capitalists. And, in 1975, baseball players won free agency, which led to the explosion of athlete salaries across professional sports."


http://www.nytimes.com/2012/09/29/o...ef=opinion&_r=1&

Last edited by RobertoOrtiz : 10 October 2012 at 09:59 PM.
 
Old 09 September 2012   #2
With the global economy, the suits probably consider vfx artists as laborers versus talent, especially the lower echelons and "cookie cutter" positions. However, other types artists seem to hold up okay. I guess it just depends on what field of work you establish yourself as to just how valuable a commodity you become. You are either a valuable asset or a replacement part.

The NFL isn't affected by global competition. It's very unique to its own culture and country.

A long time ago, MLS players went on strike to get better wages and negotiating points. However, no one in the US cares about soccer that much, so they fell on their faces. The league still runs the same and controls all their salaries and negotiating. However, if players went on strike in the BPL, I bet there would be riots. If the US vfx artists all went in strike, internationally there are plenty of others that can take their spots and are just as good. In a sense, that doesn't make them unique, but does begin to tilt their job decription towards the "laborer" title, which is not a good thing. However, reading about some of the employees from DD, I would say they were far from just laborers. Especially some which were in their 40s with years of experience and impressive credentials.

The suits rely on creatives to create a commercially viable product and the creatives really rely on smart and ethical business/financial management of the suits to facilitate an environment in which they can exercise their talent and skills.

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 09 September 2012 at 10:41 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #3
Jeeze,.. as if business has nothing to do with talent. I am kind of sick of hearing it. Only if you hold a paintbrush or kick a ball you are talent. What a load of rubbish. Not everybody inherits money, some rich folks actually make it, risk a lot, work hard, are incredibly creative and sometimes win.

What is it with this war thing. Peeps are just doing business. As for the article,.. investors can be replaced, players can be replaced. One of the more myopic articles I have half read. Wake up and realize it is a game that you have the privilege to take part in. Wouldn't you rather work with your clients instead of against them?

Yuk.

I was listening to the BBC last night while working and this guy calls up to complain that after 25 years he had to let 20 people go and dissolve his business. He was angry that he couldn't get a loan to keep going. What business was he in,.. Marketing Sometime a light has to go on somewhere I thought.
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Last edited by Kanga : 10 October 2012 at 09:16 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #4
Originally Posted by Kanga: Jeeze,.. as if business has nothing to do with talent. I am kind of sick of hearing it. Only if you hold a paintbrush or kick a ball you are talent. What a load of rubbish. Not everybody inherits money, some rich folks actually make it, risk a lot, work hard, are incredibly creative and sometimes win.


I'm not sure what you're responding to: the article lists top business men and women (more precisely, investment bankers) as an example of talent. The conflict isn't between talent and business, it's between talent and capital.
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Old 10 October 2012   #5
How does one gain capital?
The article uses football refs, players and the NFL as examples as far as I understood. Perhaps my glasses are fogged.
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Old 10 October 2012   #6
Most everyone has at least some capital, but their role as capital providers and their role as labor or talent are more or less unrelated.
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Old 10 October 2012   #7
Originally Posted by Kanga: Jeeze,.. as if business has nothing to do with talent. I am kind of sick of hearing it. Only if you hold a paintbrush or kick a ball you are talent. What a load of rubbish. Not everybody inherits money, some rich folks actually make it, risk a lot, work hard, are incredibly creative and sometimes win.

What is it with this war thing. Peeps are just doing business. As for the article,.. investors can be replaced, players can be replaced. One of the more myopic articles I have half read. Wake up and realize it is a game that you have the privilege to take part in. Wouldn't you rather work with your clients instead of against them?

Yuk.

I was listening to the BBC last night while working and this guy calls up to complain that after 25 years he had to let 20 people go and dissolve his business. He was angry that he couldn't get a loan to keep going. What business was he in,.. Marketing Sometime a light has to go on somewhere I thought.


Brother, I couldn't have said it better.
I'm sick of this constant broad picture that paints ALL people with capital as money grubbers looking to take advantage of everyone in their way. That only describes a very small percentage of capitalists.
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Old 10 October 2012   #8
they are not all money grubbers and definitely have a talent for business. The term "talent" comes from the entertainment business in referring to actors or voice over people and other entertainers. Professional athletes are entertainers therefore referred to as talent. In the world of arts, business people are typically referred to as "suits" and the artists are referred to as "creatives". Nothing derogatory is implied. It just helps to define the mindsets.

In the cases of NFL and other businesses where large amounts of capital are required to function, the investors want the largest cut as they took the largest risks. The "talent" already gets paid and has a place to work because of the money and business that continues to move forward. All the talent has to do is show up and perform.

While negotiating, a successful business owner told me, "you are only worth what clients and business you bring with you. Otherwise you are just another guy coming off the boat". That statement really sums up why "creatives" are at such risk at jobs. Unless they are bringing in the clients with deep pockets, they are just more people that are considered overhead. If you think about it, there are lots of people willing to do the work and some better than others. How many people are lining up to actually find the clients, negotiate the numbers and convince buyers to spend enough to not only pay costs, but actually make a profit.

Last edited by XLNT-3d : 10 October 2012 at 02:19 PM.
 
Old 10 October 2012   #9
Originally Posted by mr Bob: MOD EDIT (Roberto)

Editing the post to make the point more clear:

Sorry for going off topic but why more clear instead of clearer? Is there any difference between the 2?
 
Old 10 October 2012   #10
Originally Posted by Panupat: Sorry for going off topic but why more clear instead of clearer? Is there any difference between the 2?

You get an idea of what the thread is about before clicking.
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Old 10 October 2012   #11
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