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  09 September 2012
Originally Posted by BrainFreeze: I think this is a great thought. Whenever I have to explain pro tennis to new people I say that probably top 20 (male) players on the WTA tour are so evenly matched physically and technically that they can beat one other on any given day. What sets the top 5 apart is not the work ethic or physique but what goes on inside their head under stress and pressure. Some people just have their head wired by nature (and nurture) in a way that allows them to think on their feet, absorb information quicker, and see the big picture where others don't.

Ya, those top 20 players are all so ridiculously skilled that the only thing that can separate them is their composure. They are kind of the ultimate being that has combined talent/skill/aptitude/capacity or whatever + a ridiculous work ethic + some level of intelligence. But since they will be so close in these features they also will have many high pressure moments in matches and it's the guy/girl that can remain calm and focused without losing his cool that usually prevails..........or the guy with the 140 mile per hour serve. hahaha I did mention earlier that I could never play tennis professionally no matter what I did, however, I still love tennis, still play, and still get great satisfaction out of the sport. So even though I'll never be able to compete against Andy Murray, I still have gotten what I wanted out of the activity, and for me that's plenty enough and maybe that's the point. Shrug Tennis is also a pretty singular activity with one major goal: to win. Whereas, art has a ton of avenues for satisfaction, therefore, I am much more motivated to encourage individuals to go after their dreams in art than say a sport. I just used a sport to show that the 10,000 hour thingamajibbly is not completely sound on everything as it proclaims to be. I do think everybody in this field should teach for awhile however. Their optimism will diminish year after year. haha
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Last edited by MrPositive : 09 September 2012 at 05:09 AM.
 
  09 September 2012
Originally Posted by MrPositive: Ya, those top 20 players are all so ridiculously skilled that the only thing that can separate them is their composure. They are kind of the ultimate being that has combined talent/skill/aptitude/capacity or whatever + a ridiculous work ethic + some level of intelligence. But since they will be so close in these features they also will have many high pressure moments in matches and it's the guy/girl that can remain calm and focused without losing his cool that usually prevails..........or the guy with the 140 mile per hour serve. hahaha I did mention earlier that I could never play tennis professionally no matter what I did, however, I still love tennis, still play, and still get great satisfaction out of the sport. So even though I'll never be able to compete against Andy Murray, I still have gotten what I wanted out of the activity, and for me that's plenty enough and maybe that's the point. Shrug

Luckily CG isn't such a widely desired and ridiculously paying activity that 10% of the population desires to pursue it, meaning you don't have to compete with the 99th percentile of the world population to find employment
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  09 September 2012
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO: Luckily CG isn't such a widely desired and ridiculously paying activity that 10% of the population desires to pursue it, meaning you don't have to compete with the 99th percentile of the world population to find employment

No doubt about that as well. I still think it's far too popular for the amount of actual jobs available. But that's for another discussion some day. hehe
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Last edited by MrPositive : 09 September 2012 at 05:37 AM.
 
  09 September 2012
Originally Posted by MrPositive: I do think everybody in this field should teach for awhile however. Their optimism will diminish year after year. haha

Very true. When I first started teaching I routinely stated, "I can teach anyone to do this." After 6 years I learned that no matter how hard I tried, some people just weren't going to get it. They just had no skill for problem solving so no matter how well they studied, in the end they couldn't do the job.

We actually had good instructional sessions from the Dean of Students warning about saying things like, "This is easy" or "Anyone can do this" because it wasn't easy to everyone and you either crushed their enthusiasm or straight out insulted them. Tough lessons for the teacher.
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  09 September 2012
I hope the lack of replies from OP means he's busy working at it,

in which case keep it up!
 
  09 September 2012
Conceptualizing and having that artistic "eye" is something innate. Either you have it or you don't. With that being said, you still need the fundamental skills to build upon. It takes years to hone the skills you were born with.
 
  09 September 2012
Originally Posted by Angie-Reiserer: Conceptualizing and having that artistic "eye" is something innate. Either you have it or you don't. With that being said, you still need the fundamental skills to build upon. It takes years to hone the skills you were born with.



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  09 September 2012
Originally Posted by Angie-Reiserer: Conceptualizing and having that artistic "eye" is something innate. Either you have it or you don't. With that being said, you still need the fundamental skills to build upon. It takes years to hone the skills you were born with.


Wrong, wrong wrong... <snip>

Edit:
Leigh had the right idea with her reply. Instead of me using more pointless words, I decided to just keep the response short and simple.

Last edited by Njen : 09 September 2012 at 02:23 PM.
 
  09 September 2012
Wink This over 9000!

Originally Posted by MrPositive: Ha! This is me in tennis. I have loved and lived the sport since almost birth. I worked harder than everyone in the midwest and got as much out of my physical talent possible, even getting my college completely paid for on scholarship. I even remember my hands and feet bleeding from playing so long and running lines late into the evenings. However, when we went up against top college/pro players, and ridiculous talents, I remember usually getting beaten soundly. 'For some reason' (they definitely didn't train harder than me, so fill in your word of choice) these guys could just hit every shot in the book with far more power than me. My brother is a great example. He barely practiced, partied in college almost non stop, then could usually go out and rock me like a hurricane in tennis and pretty much every other sport no matter how much more I practiced. lol At some point, I had to come to the realization that my dream of playing professional tennis was never going to happen, no matter what I did. Depressing? Perhaps. But I would have never found my other loves and maybe even greater talents or competencies in teaching, 3D art, and video gaming late into the evening. Anybody that denies talent/gift/skill/capacity or whatever you want to call it for certain things are being a bit too optimistic. hehe Bless you for being so positive, but it also misleads some people as well into following some dreams that bankrupt them and put them behind things they may have better aptitudes for in life.


THIS. People still doesn't understand brain, let alone talent. The problem with admitting "talent" is like saying you win due to luck - and nobody will admit that - except lottery winner. Today there is a thread at ArsTechnica that mention about being a programmer, and how some people will not cut out for it.

http://arstechnica.com/information-...e-a-programmer/

I think talent is like photographic memory. If you have it it will make it much easier for you to do it - without knowing it is easy for you because you have talent (just google about some guy who didn't know he have photographic memory and thought everyone else can memorize just like him).

I already wrote a lot but it all come to this:

a) if you have talent. it would be easy to you - like memorizing info and you have photographic memory.

b) if you don't have talent, you really need to work very hard.

c) you might not cut out for some thing. Sorry it have to be that way. But not everybody can be a million dollar model at the age of 16, and well you know, beauty is something that born with. And this is the problem that I have with with talent. Just because it cannot be seen, unlike beauty, it suddenly being dismissed as doesn't exist.

... sigh and snip ...

z) Not everyone can carry a tune (tone deaf / beat deaf / etc), and of those that do and can practice instrument, not all can create a hit...

in the end of the day, just do whatever makes you happy and being able to lead a fulfilling life.
 
  09 September 2012
Originally Posted by Angie-Reiserer: Conceptualizing and having that artistic "eye" is something innate. Either you have it or you don't. With that being said, you still need the fundamental skills to build upon. It takes years to hone the skills you were born with.


The book 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain' is completely contradictory to this statement. I do believe, obviously, that some people have the competency to higher or lower thresholds of potential development in certain mental or physical talents. However, anybody can continue to improve honing their artistic eye as well as any other skill. It may still be a very low level of skill subjectively, but I truly believe almost everybody can improve from some level. My point before, as it is now, is that I don't believe everybody can become a 'master' because of 10,000 hours or a hard work ethic is all. But the question remains. Do we all need to be 'masters' at these skills to be happy or even professional? From my experience, not at all.
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Last edited by MrPositive : 09 September 2012 at 07:40 AM.
 
  09 September 2012
My grandmother painted almost everyday till being 80, and she always was at the same (quite a medium) level and never improved.
Just look at kids and see how different they are even at age of 3-4. One huge problem is many people can't learn, they "forget" they wanted and do something else tomorrow. It's a natural disability. But they are good at other things, like socializing. This is much more an obstacle than talent.
I understand it's discouraging, saying genetics determines you. But so many other things do. Life will be the best answer if you're good at it or not.
Motivation is a complex thing. 3d is now in favor, but when it's not, we'll see only few artists making it. because mostly people do what they are paid for. I mean if oil paintings were in huge demand, we would make it. It's not like we do it simply because we enjoy it.
So it's up to genetics (natural talent), talent of concentration and learning (very important, and it's a natural talent as well!), and motivation, as well as available resources (rich parents and living in a cultural center helps. Living in Zimbabwe with 2 dollars doesn't).


Originally Posted by MrPositive: But the question remains. Do we all need to be 'masters' at these skills to be happy or even professional? From my experience, not at all.


At this time, you'd better be, but it depends on what master means. It's quite competitive today. Otherwise be prepared working for less.

Last edited by mister3d : 09 September 2012 at 07:42 AM.
 
  09 September 2012
Originally Posted by mister3d: At this time, you'd better be, but it depends on what master means. It's quite competitive today. Otherwise be prepared working for less.


Depends man. Are we just talking exclusively on the subject of feature films or games? If so, then yes the skills necessary are certainly increased. But in my opinion, it's quite narrow minded to think that those are the only two important enough positions to discuss upon in this field. What about product design, 3d print, car design, arch viz, forensics viz, broadcast animations, military viz, biological sims and viz, teaching, etc.? Are all those people 'masters' of 3D art? I think not. Hell, even in feature films, out of my own department I am yearly flabbergasted at some of the people hired (ok it's rare but it does happen). There's more to being hired than just the quality of your work as well. We have one former student at a gaming company that almost refuses to hire anyone but former friends he made in our program. lol Of course, maybe the US has lower standards, which honestly, I think they do with so many ridiculous companies here. Just in Indianapolis we have 10+ iphone game app startup companies. :\ Not everybody hired at all those companies is going to be amazing.
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Last edited by MrPositive : 09 September 2012 at 08:10 AM.
 
  09 September 2012
Originally Posted by MrPositive: There's more to being hired than just the quality of your work as well. We have one former student at a gaming company that almost refuses to hire anyone but former friends he made in our program. lol Of course, maybe the US has lower standards, which honestly, I think they do with so many ridiculous companies here. Just in Indianapolis we have 10+ iphone game app startup companies. :\ Not everybody hired at all those companies is going to be amazing.

You're right. Then people have investing in self-promotion and looking for clients, not just waiting and searching through regular ways, like bidding on freelance.
 
  09 September 2012
perhaps your grandmother didn't want to improve past a certain level. Some people never try to push further to try to build up their skills. Once you can communicate what you need to there is little incentive to improve. Especially more so if you aren't making money off of it. Then again, the brain does most of its learning early on anyway, so if she started to paint very late in her life, then perhaps she needed to invest a lot more time than someone much younger to get "there".

There's a ton of variables there. In the end what's important is that she enjoyed it. Same with 3d.
 
  09 September 2012
Originally Posted by MrPositive: The book 'Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain' is completely contradictory to this statement. I do believe, obviously, that some people have the competency to higher or lower thresholds of potential development in certain mental or physical talents. However, anybody can continue to improve honing their artistic eye as well as any other skill. It may still be a very low level of skill subjectively, but I truly believe almost everybody can improve from some level. My point before, as it is now, is that I don't believe everybody can become a 'master' because of 10,000 hours or a hard work ethic is all. But the question remains. Do we all need to be 'masters' at these skills to be happy or even professional? From my experience, not at all.



By "talent," and an "artistic eye," I mean someone with creative thinking who can come up with their own ideas and approaches and someone who can think outside of the box.

I totally agree with you. I'm not saying that we need to be masters to be professional. In fact I know a few people who aren't inherently creative but make great livings in the art field because they are well skilled. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
My point is that people who are born with raw talent (the ability to conceive art), still need to hone their skills. A person can be very talented naturally, but without the hard work and practice, they will only be able to come up with ideas but no way to execute them effectively.
 
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