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Old 09 September 2012   #46
Originally Posted by BrainFreeze: I think this is a great thought. Whenever I have to explain pro tennis to new people I say that probably top 20 (male) players on the WTA tour are so evenly matched physically and technically that they can beat one other on any given day. What sets the top 5 apart is not the work ethic or physique but what goes on inside their head under stress and pressure. Some people just have their head wired by nature (and nurture) in a way that allows them to think on their feet, absorb information quicker, and see the big picture where others don't.
Tennis is a good example! The ability to coordinate movements differs a lot, inherently.

Didn’t read everything here but i’d like to add that a common source of misunderstanding "talents" is that many of them contain a bunch of skills, some of them inherent while some others have to get learned. No one is born as musician or as draftsman.

But some people are better in coordinating their movements or in distinguishing sounds (also children are generally better in that than adults, the reason why they’re able to learn languages perfectly), and some of us are better in distinguishing forms than others (just to name one of the skills needed for drawing), allowing to memorise those differences. When someone doesn’t see a difference then there’s nothing to memorise. It’s an illusion that we all are the same and one can get anything when making every effort. The illusion is nonetheless helpful on the way to find out whether a skill is there... but then the time might come to recognise the lack of a certain ability and to look for something else to get happy. One might have the greatest skills to get one of the best writers ever, but he won’t find out when spending a liftime to get his artwork to a passable level.
 
Old 09 September 2012   #47
Ha ha, I love this stuff

We all enjoy a good bout of philosophy. Fact is nothing can be proven because it is not yet possible to test one person lifelong in two different situations so at best we are guessing. If I were you I would research the best character artists you can find and see how they work and try that yourself.
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Old 09 September 2012   #48
Bojan, I was going to reply to your previous thread but ended up thinking it was not relevant. I've changed my mind this time.

I bought my wacom bamboo in 2008 and, when I first got it, I couldn't even draw a straight line. Fast forward to the present, and I got my first professional sculpting gig last month. And I'm still very far away form the level of skill I'd like to have.

I've been recording my sculpting sessions since 2009 and you can see the videos in my youtube channel:

https://www.youtube.com/user/thisro...low=grid&view=0

It's not as impressive as MindCandyman's thread but you can see what three years of almost daily practice can do with someone clearly not as talented as that guy.

I went from this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUEIiyl1aQE

To this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWd6J3OK3cE

The problem is, if you expect great results from day one (hell, even for the first year) without taking into account how much learning and work there's behind progress, you're in for a lot of suffering and frustration.
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Old 09 September 2012   #49
Originally Posted by MrPositive: I remember that thread Artbot is speaking of on concept.org. If you can find it, it will enlighten you to the truest answer. Pleeeeez somebody post it again. I love showing it to my students.

Here’s a slideshow of the images in Jonathan Hardesty’s 9 year (10,000+ hr ) journey thread--‘Journey of an absolute rookie’

http://vimeo.com/29510470

more

http://workdrawsleep.blogspot.com/2...ndcandyman.html
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Last edited by Quadart : 09 September 2012 at 02:44 PM.
 
Old 09 September 2012   #50
Originally Posted by Quadart: http://vimeo.com/29510470

That was really enjoyable. Thanks for the lnk!
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Old 09 September 2012   #51
Originally Posted by Quadart: Here’s a slideshow of the images in Jonathan Hardesty’s 9 year (10,000+ hr ) journey thread--‘Journey of an absolute rookie’

http://vimeo.com/29510470

Oh wow, hadn't seen the slideshow version. More than looking at any master's work, I'd say this is probably the most inspirational thing you could look at. Everyone should check it out at least once.
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Old 09 September 2012   #52
Just so you understand where I'm coming from I'm not a doctor but I've been immersed in studying the brain and neurology in general for the past 14 years since my first son was diagnosed with autism.

Originally Posted by Njen: A great book that helps dispel the myth of the "natural creative" is Imagine. It is a fascinating look into the science of creativity, and to a certain extent skill building:

http://www.langtoninfo.co.uk/showit...7386079&loc=AUD

I read the description of the book you linked and the general idea behind why it says this or that. The problem with things like, the color blue, centralized bathrooms, etc. is that those are things that effect people that are considered neurotypical. That accounts for ~40-50% of the population. For the rest of us, those things either have no effect or the exact opposite is true.

If you look beyond that fact, you still have to consider that everyone is different. No 2 brains, no matter how identical, are going to be the same so yes there is a penchant for better performance or greater potential from 1 person vs. the other. I get the feeling that you just really don't like that word talent. Well that's fine, call it aptitude or potential but its still a factor in who we are.

I'm thinking of dozens of examples but I'll just give the 1. My extended family is very oriented to the arts. Just about everyone one of us plays music in some regard. Everyone in my direct family has amazing rhythm. I have no problem saying my rhythm is close to perfect and I've always been that way. I didn't develop it, it's always been there since I was a child. Now for some reason I married my wife, who has no rhythm. (Okay, it was love ) Now I attacked this like I attack every problem, like I can fix anything but it's been 15 years now and she still cannot keep it no matter what. She loses the rhythm when I'm clapping right in front of her and she can watch and follow me. It's the darnedest thing. In this case talent makes all the difference.

Now you take my oldest brother. I have 4 siblings but he is my only whole brother. I am most identical to him. We probably think very similarly but why is he such a better musician than me. I finally realized the difference after years of wondering. I don't like playing by myself, he does. If I'm with a group I'll play all night until my hands cramp up and my fingers bleed. What that meant was he would sit there most nights, hammering away on the guitar by himself getting better and better. I on the other hand played at school, with the class or a group, and never progressed as much as he. In this case, practice and patience made the difference.

Njen, it's not smart to put all of your faith into one scientists research. I don't care how good he is. Go to an autism conference and you'll be surrounded by brilliant doctors and scientists who don't agree on anything. They all think they are right and guess what, they probably are. That's the complexity of the human brain. In their world, with their research, their way is right. But go to the very next kid, and their ideas don't mean squat.

Trust me, this is very frustrating to a parent who wants answers. I usually end up wanting to wring every neck in the place.
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Last edited by WyattHarris : 09 September 2012 at 03:16 PM.
 
Old 09 September 2012   #53
Quote: You do realise that she begun singing at the age of four right? That is why she is such a good singer, years and years of practice.


uMMM....??? Yeah that is why she sings the way she does. Yup enough practice and you can hit 7 octaves. Anyone can do it. Her genes and ability had nothing to do with it.

Sorry dude, that was all natural combined with practice.

People can't just sing like that with practice. As mentioned 1/2 breeding and the other practice.

But she can't just sing like that because she practiced.

Last edited by AangtheAvatar : 09 September 2012 at 06:36 PM.
 
Old 09 September 2012   #54
Originally Posted by AangtheAvatar: uMMM....??? Yeah that is why she sings the way she does. Yup enough practice and you can hit 7 octaves. Anyone can do it. Her genes and ability had nothing to do with it.

Sorry dude, that was all natural combined with practice.

People can't just sing like that with practice. As mentioned 1/2 breeding and the other practice.

But she can't just sing like that because she practiced.



You exercise your vocal cords. Talk a language long enough and you will lose your foreign accent. Yes she sings like this because she practiced. Although genes might give her a 'slight' nudge.
 
Old 09 September 2012   #55
Originally Posted by plastic: If you think all people are born with equal skill set, you're delusional.


All scientific understanding of genetics disagrees with you. NOBODY is born with a skill or skill set. Nobody. A skill is something learned and developed, it is specifically an acquired ability. What people are born with is a set of genetic predispositions, ie aptitude. Aptitude can aid people in developing a skill, but to claim that people are born with any particular skillset is a fundamental misunderstanding of what aptitude is.

The thing that bothers me is this pervasive notion that people are born magically artistic. Nobody emerges from their mother's womb with an ability to draw; what they may however possess is an aptitude which helps them develop that drawing ability. But crucially, practice is required for that aptitude to manifest. The reason why this idea that gets thrown around, that some people are born artistic and others are not, bothers me is because it creates a culture of exclusion, and that kind of myopic outlook can ultimately harm people's chances of developing art skills if they feel they weren't born "gifted". Not that I'm one of those people who thinks everyone is a superstar and that we should celebrate mediocrity in order to make everyone feel special, but I do think it's sad that many will feel discouraged from pursuing their interest in art if they're told they're not "artistic".

I think many people, if not most people, think of the word "talent" as some magical ability that people are born with, and that's why I feel it's important to make the distinction between aptitude and skill. I don't particularly like the word talent because of the air of mystery that tends to accompany it.
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Old 09 September 2012   #56
Originally Posted by Quadart: Here’s a slideshow of the images in Jonathan Hardesty’s 9 year (10,000+ hr ) journey thread--‘Journey of an absolute rookie’

http://vimeo.com/29510470

more

http://workdrawsleep.blogspot.com/2...ndcandyman.html


Thanks for the vimeo link, I love this guy!

On a bit of a tangent to this thread, I think that one interesting thing in the video is to see how he actually started off a bit more ambitious than he ended up. I mean yea it was all orcs and robots and generally in bad taste, but he was trying to do a lot of stuff out of his head. After going to the atelier, he's generally happy with bargues, still lifes and portraits, and that's pretty much all he puts on his website. Which is fine, of course, but I do think if you go that route you have to be careful not to leave with a bucketload of skills and a cork up your creative bunghole.
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Old 09 September 2012   #57
Originally Posted by BojanStankovski: Hey guys, at age 23 i found all of this CG thing. Been lurking, searching reading stuff about all of stuff. I was interest in everything.
especially in FX, sculpting stuff.

Was okey, until, i read for better character artist need to know drawing. Damn it. to be honest i never draw in my life, all of my drawing made my mother lol, when i was in elementary and high school.

But now, it's come to me that, i need to learn to draw. And i have no idea where to start. Got books, but, i am just reading them, and no idea how to start, there is no explanation how to start etc.

Even i will go for online course for drawing, but there anything like that. There is for 3D, FX, Zbrush, but not drawing.

Is drawing is a born talent? Or it's from hard working? I know kids you are not even 15, know to draw, everything, 2 of them are my cousins both 13, and can draw, ****ing good. Whatever they are interest.
I feel like dump, useless compared to them.
Ye maybe. when they grow up, might work in Blizzard for example


While blizzard produces great works as a team, the company itself is not what it used to be. Its constant over time, the pay is ok at best, unless you have been there since the start. I don't want to crush your dreams, but I think people should ask around and try to get a more realistic idea of what it is like in some of these dream companies.
 
Old 09 September 2012   #58
Originally Posted by LordMcGoat: …but I do think if you go that route you have to be careful not to leave with a bucketload of skills and a cork up your creative bunghole.

I doubt that a creative person would allow that to happen.
Not everyone who chooses a path of mastery in visual art is going to shine creatively, as well, after years of honing a craft/skill as the two are different beasts altogether. One can get some neuronal ducks in row and bump their creative potential up a bit, like notching up the IQ a few quotient points but just as you can’t catapult your IQ to 180 from 100, you can’t radically ramp up creative potential by orders of magnitude through practice.
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Old 09 September 2012   #59
My favorite quote on the subject of talent is from MC Escher.

Talent and all that are really for the most part just baloney. Any schoolboy with a little aptitude can perhaps draw better than I; but what he lacks in most cases is that tenacious desire to make it reality, that obstinate gnashing of teeth and saying, "Although I know it can't be done, I want to do it anyway.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 09 September 2012   #60
Originally Posted by leigh: NOBODY is born with a skill or skill set. Nobody. A skill is something learned and developed, it is specifically an acquired ability. What people are born with is a set of genetic predispositions, ie aptitude. Aptitude can aid people in developing a skill, but to claim that people are born with any particular skillset is a fundamental misunderstanding of what aptitude is.
Exactly what i was trying to write before, but using the wrong word “skill” instead of “aptitude”.


Talking about “talents” is such delicate thing and it’s also very dangerous. Some people are much talented but they need a severe kick from time to time to use it, while others simply don’t have any aptitude and encouraging them would be like pushing them toward their illusions. I have some experience with teaching also kids and had several times very difficult discussions with parents who expected a sort of forecasting from me whether their child is getting a star or better to stop right now. The best answer is that as long there’s a dedication nothing can’t go wrong. People who enjoy what they are doing have also the aptitude for it. Exceptions remain reserved, but they might be very rare. And people who have serious troubles with learning something might better think about the necessity to push themselves that hard. The world doesn’t really need that many artists - there are many other fields to find recognition, fulfilment and all the boogie.
 
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