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Old 09-03-2012, 06:04 AM   #16
ThE_JacO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmoore3d
One thing that I see that causes a lot of disappointment for new CG artists is that they focus too much on getting into that one big studio of their dreams. There is an incredibly wider breadth of work that can be done in CG that there is really no reason to limit yourself to just film, vfx or AAA game work.

Personally, I've been surviving primarily as a freelancer by doing animations for industrial technology companies, creating presentations that show how their equipment works at a high level and explaining the features with bullet points. My point here is that there are plenty of people who would like pretty graphics, and even sometimes they don't even know it's a possibility until you approach them! Sure, this kind of work might not have the same kind of glamour or appeal as getting your work up on the big screen, but it's been paying my bills and means I get to open up my favourite software every day instead of getting a job as a barista.

Short Version: Find a niche market and run with it, studio work is not the only thing you can do in CG as a career.

Your point is valid to some extent, but I've heard it so many times I have to admit to becoming tired of hearing it stated so absolutely.
You need to bear in mind that many people get into this because they want to work in film or games first and foremost, and CG secondarily. In those cases it's absolutely not the case that one can decide to go for some other niche.

IE: Personally I got into it because I like large teams of clever people, and doing creature work.

I literally couldn't, professionally speaking, thrive in any other environment other than the one that I stubbornly decided to pursue (mid and high budget film work).
The fact it involved CG was a byproduct of the fact that I started programming, then using CAD apps, very early on in my life, and the animatronics and maquettes market was already on its last leg when I joined the ranks quite a few years ago (which was my original aim when I was a kid).

It's like telling someone "hey, you want to drive a car, you know you could deliver milk instead of racing le Mans, right?!", when they want to actually endurance race, and the car just happens to be coincidentially required.

If you want to be an "operator" for certain applications (and I imply ABSOLUTELY NOTHING bad in this), then it's fine, go for whatever. If you're happy with a certain level of input in creating or assemblying something, and it doesn't matter what it is, again go for whatever works.
Some of us though want to work on movies or games, not just monkeying around some DCC app, nor are we content with working on our own or in small teams all the time, and that means picking some odd and profitable niche wouldn't reward us to the whole extent, and possibly not enough to bother at all.
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Old 09-03-2012, 06:27 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr Bob
There are jobs but you really have to be in the right location and that means moving to where the action is in your chosen field.

I will also say Robert I have taken a look at your reel. If you want to work in live action / film you need to have cg elements on live action plates. Your reel tells me you can make nice materials but that's only part of being a lighting TD. You need to be able to make elements sit on a plate and matching the lighting on that plate.
Also the last shot in your reel looks interesting yet you are not telling the viewing what you have done and what it shows. A simple way to do this is number your shots in the edit and then provide a shot list.

My last point is I have a pet hate of utube or vimeo hosted videos . To me they are the lazy persons way of showing skills. If you really want to be a professional in this industry and you really need to convey it. That means getting a personnel website where you reel is located for download without having to join in some membership scheme, where you can also show a CV and shot list.
You can also have a sandbox area where you might post scene files / write notes / shaders/ expressions / scripts etc etc . They might not be for your reel but they show a understanding on your craft.


b


I do have the webpage and shot break down stuff. Shot list is on the webpage and the YouTube description. The cv isn't on the age. I'm not the best web designer. I like the idea of the sandbox. Good idea. I'm going to tweak some stuff after breaking bad.

Yeah I agree the location thing is important, I used to live in San Francisco but had to move. I am more then happy to relocate. I have no love of Sacramento. over the past month after I got my reel and cv diced up I have managed to send out 26 reels to places hiring lighters, so hopefully someone will bite.
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Last edited by Oddgit : 09-03-2012 at 06:32 AM.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 09:04 AM   #18
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Quote:
My last point is I have a pet hate of utube or vimeo hosted videos . To me they are the lazy persons way of showing skills. If you really want to be a professional in this industry and you really need to convey it. That means getting a personnel website where you reel is located for download without having to join in some membership scheme, where you can also show a CV and shot list.


Wrong, getting a professional account in Vimeo, that's a good idea. The more people watch your videos the better, sometimes you will get a job offer out of the blue because someone saw your work in those platforms. Use those socials tools to your advantage.
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Old 09-03-2012, 09:52 AM   #19
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We just struggle to find applicants with enough experience or skill. There are jobs out there for those that are good enough!

On a totally unrelated topic if you're a senior animator looking for work in London with generalist skills, Zbrushing etc then please get in touch via PM.
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Old 09-03-2012, 01:28 PM   #20
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I can't really say something positive. But the at moment I'd advice to consider something else than archviz, at least in europe.
It's going down a bit. There is a trend to ban renders for architectural competitions, in order to make things "pure" again, or something. This was one of the main reason to do archviz at all, at least for architects.
Then there are crazy lots of architectural students trying to get into freelance 3d, because they do that at uni anyway, so they believe there's good money in it, as opposed to work for architects for a dumping price.
So right now it seems there are only few open jobs but lots of people push into it.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 02:14 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThE_JacO
Your point is valid to some extent, but I've heard it so many times I have to admit to becoming tired of hearing it stated so absolutely.
You need to bear in mind that many people get into this because they want to work in film or games first and foremost, and CG secondarily. In those cases it's absolutely not the case that one can decide to go for some other niche.

IE: Personally I got into it because I like large teams of clever people, and doing creature work.

I literally couldn't, professionally speaking, thrive in any other environment other than the one that I stubbornly decided to pursue (mid and high budget film work).
The fact it involved CG was a byproduct of the fact that I started programming, then using CAD apps, very early on in my life, and the animatronics and maquettes market was already on its last leg when I joined the ranks quite a few years ago (which was my original aim when I was a kid).

It's like telling someone "hey, you want to drive a car, you know you could deliver milk instead of racing le Mans, right?!", when they want to actually endurance race, and the car just happens to be coincidentially required.

If you want to be an "operator" for certain applications (and I imply ABSOLUTELY NOTHING bad in this), then it's fine, go for whatever. If you're happy with a certain level of input in creating or assemblying something, and it doesn't matter what it is, again go for whatever works.
Some of us though want to work on movies or games, not just monkeying around some DCC app, nor are we content with working on our own or in small teams all the time, and that means picking some odd and profitable niche wouldn't reward us to the whole extent, and possibly not enough to bother at all.


+1 I couldn't agree more. I get a little tired of the "settle for less!" posts. Why should people settle for something they didn't want? Generally when I see these posts, I can't help but wonder if the person posting it is discouraging others because it makes them feel better about not achieving their own dream. I'm not saying that's necessarily always the case, but people should be aware that that's how it comes off to someone reading it. It's pretty tiresome seeing the "hey guys, find a niche market like animating blood cells in veins for the next 30 years" - why the hell would I want to do that when I could rather work in a challenging VFX environment where I get to work in a big, vibrant team of creative folks speaking lots of different languages (since big studios tend to recruit from all over the planet) and having fun doing cool shit like space stations and creatures? For many of us, as Raffaele says, we are not in this because we are CG geeks who just want to work in 3D software, we are doing this because we love films or games or creatures or whatever and want to do that.

Incidentally, I'm not putting down medical animation. I'm sure there are people who enjoy it. My point is that you shouldn't tell someone who has their heart set on films or games that they should consider that instead, because that's not what they want. Just because these different fields use the same software, doesn't mean they're similar enough to satisfy someone with their heart set elsewhere.
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Old 09-03-2012, 02:35 PM   #22
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I think it depends on whether you sacrifice your high dream for something smaller. If so, it's bad. But if it's just a random gig, why not. It's the most critical at the start of your career, but if you have built a portfolio, I see nothing bad with trying other areas of computer graphics.
This feeling "you work for games" winds out so fast. I don't know, maybe it's different in developed countries, but I barely feel entitled working on game projects. The only thing which I find truly interesting are good concept designs from which you work. But again, it's not creature modeling, I think creature modeling is more interesting and rewarding. I mean it also depends. Game animation may not be too interesting, as well as hard-surface modeling for games, but it's just my impression.

Last edited by mister3d : 09-03-2012 at 02:40 PM.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 04:53 PM   #23
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Oh I agree with you that the novelty wears off. I don't even watch the majority of the films I work on - but I still love working in VFX because the work is difficult, and that keeps it interesting. I enjoy the levels of detail that film requires because it keeps me feeling challenged and because the work itself is interesting. I'd much rather spend a week texturing a metal pipe at film res with all its little idiosyncratic details than sit doing arch viz or something else. That's why I like film work, because as a texture painter it's fun with all its crazy details. I recently finished working on something of a dream project where I basically spent a year and a half texturing the exact kind of stuff I love to texture, and these particular texture tasks only really exist in the film industry. I'm even going to watch the film because it's so cool.
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Old 09-03-2012, 05:09 PM   #24
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Jaco / Leah, you have a point but took what I said completely out of context, or perhaps I didn't write what I wanted to say properly. In no way am I advocating not going after what you are passionate about, rather I am just saying that there are alternatives that a lot of people haven't even considered. It's important to explore your options, because you never know when you might find a new passion or a new career path that makes you happy. Career happiness can come from many different avenues, and that's all I wanted to express.

Using myself as an example, for the past few years I've been doing primarily animations for industrial equipment manufacturers, showing how their systems work. It's not terribly exciting and I'm not going to do it forever. However, it has allowed me to live by my own schedule, my own choices, I take pride in the fact that I single handedly create everything and I have the freedom in my plentiful spare time to explore my ideas. This is what makes me happy and I couldn't get the same from a studio (presumably through second-hand knowledge).
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Last edited by grantmoore3d : 09-03-2012 at 05:21 PM.
 
Old 09-03-2012, 07:41 PM   #25
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While i didnt mind working in product viz, in fact most of my reel is product viz, it in not my goal, as silly as it is my goal is an all CG shop, not really a specific on, i just hink it would be fun. When I did have freelance or professional work, i always thought to my self lighting is the same all around. Lighting an arch viz scene is similar enough to a product shot and to a shot for an animation. Like i said at the beginning of my post i dont mind product and arc viz, i just want to go to a movie, watch my shot and here people go wow at least once in my life.

Anyway, back topic, for people that got in to the archviz/product viz industry, did you just cold contact architecture firms? I very rarely see postings for archviz or product viz and if i do they always seem to want a CAD or Revit person that can do photo real renders. I did apply to Dyson in England, they had an opening for a mental ray artist a few weeks back.
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:17 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Samo
Wrong, getting a professional account in Vimeo, that's a good idea. The more people watch your videos the better, sometimes you will get a job offer out of the blue because someone saw your work in those platforms. Use those socials tools to your advantage.


Having a Vimeo account is fine for showing things but its not fine when your applying for a job do you think recruiters and supervisors all have Vimeo accounts and can be bothered to download a reel after joining. Just the other day HR told me there are well over 5000 applications on their data base. You have 30 seconds to sell yourself so giving the recruiter, supervisor the easiest root to your material is going to help.

b
 
Old 09-03-2012, 10:27 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grantmoore3d
Jaco / Leah, you have a point but took what I said completely out of context, or perhaps I didn't write what I wanted to say properly. In no way am I advocating not going after what you are passionate about, rather I am just saying that there are alternatives that a lot of people haven't even considered. It's important to explore your options, because you never know when you might find a new passion or a new career path that makes you happy. Career happiness can come from many different avenues, and that's all I wanted to express.

Using myself as an example, for the past few years I've been doing primarily animations for industrial equipment manufacturers, showing how their systems work. It's not terribly exciting and I'm not going to do it forever. However, it has allowed me to live by my own schedule, my own choices, I take pride in the fact that I single handedly create everything and I have the freedom in my plentiful spare time to explore my ideas. This is what makes me happy and I couldn't get the same from a studio (presumably through second-hand knowledge).

Sorry man, my post might have appeared to single you out more than intended (which is: it wasn't intended to, at all).
I think you expressed yourself clearly and as I said I don't think it's bad advice in some (even many) situations.

It's just I've seen it pop up so many times, often not as well formulated and in other, less appropriate contexts or threads, and I had never really commented on it; I simply grabbed the chance here.

It's good advice for some people, but I've also seen people take that advice when they clearly shouldn't have, and years later they had so diverged from their original intents that they were both unhappy, and unable to go back on that decision for either circumstance, or simple attitude (leaving safety can be hard). I simply thought it in order to tip the scale back to par
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:30 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr Bob
Having a Vimeo account is fine for showing things but its not fine when your applying for a job do you think recruiters and supervisors all have Vimeo accounts and can be bothered to download a reel after joining. Just the other day HR told me there are well over 5000 applications on their data base. You have 30 seconds to sell yourself so giving the recruiter, supervisor the easiest root to your material is going to help.

b

It depends on the company.
Personally I actually quite like no-frills vimeo reels (and yes, I've been part of recruiting as supe/HoD in different companies), and HR prepares the material for supes to review during filtering and before reviews, so it's absolutely a no issue.
There's nothing wrong with having a simple, functional, accessible website with a downloadable reel, anything that makes things easier is always a plus, so I'm not discounting the advice. When you're starting any edge you can get is worth getting, but it's far from necessary most of the time to be honest.

Some (rare) places still mandate a DVD hard copy to be sent (IE: DNeg Singapore), it doesn't mean we should all regress to having that stash of 50 printed DVDs at hand at all times like it was 92 all over again
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Old 09-03-2012, 10:33 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oddgit
I do have the webpage and shot break down stuff. Shot list is on the webpage and the YouTube description. The cv isn't on the age. I'm not the best web designer. I like the idea of the sandbox. Good idea. I'm going to tweak some stuff after breaking bad.

Yeah I agree the location thing is important, I used to live in San Francisco but had to move. I am more then happy to relocate. I have no love of Sacramento. over the past month after I got my reel and cv diced up I have managed to send out 26 reels to places hiring lighters, so hopefully someone will bite.


Hi Rob,
Your site does look like its been created using iweb, am I correct ? . If so I am sure you could use your creative talent to make something visually appealing showing those lighting skills off .
Its no excuse to say your not the best web designer. Ive asked you to light a shot using the tools in our pipeline. What are you going to do ?. Are you going to read the help > learn > adapt and look at the process of how we do things to get a shot to final. Or are you going to come out with an excuse as to why I'm not seeing anything in dailies.
I hope you can see where I am going with my point and the sort of attitude that's required, in your career your going to have to learn lots of new applications and custom tools and adapt.

Sandboxes are are very good way of showing off tests and things you have learnt glad you like the idea.

B
 
Old 09-03-2012, 11:32 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr Bob
Having a Vimeo account is fine for showing things but its not fine when your applying for a job do you think recruiters and supervisors all have Vimeo accounts and can be bothered to download a reel after joining. Just the other day HR told me there are well over 5000 applications on their data base. You have 30 seconds to sell yourself so giving the recruiter, supervisor the easiest root to your material is going to help.

b


Why is it not fine to use vimeo to host your reel? Some places ask for it and I got all my jobs using it.
And maybe I'm missing something but since when do you have to have a vimeo account or actually download the file to watch it?
 
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