Autodesk 360 (Cloud Service) TOS: Have you guys read this stuff?

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Old 08 August 2012   #46
Originally Posted by WesComan: the terms of use just cover the legal aspect of someone taking data and making this new image

Sounds about right. At least that's the safety blanket I'd like people to wear I was the one behind these terms of service.

Fact remains that it's black on white saying that you're letting them use your work for whatever they wish. Does it then matter if it is "yours" or not? What makes something "yours" if not having people ask permission to use it?
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Old 08 August 2012   #47
It's called a rights grab. Basically, it reads like you are giving your work to Autodesk for free, giving up all rights to them so they can distribute, sell, modify and/or otherwise do with as that please.
Is it even legal for Autodesk to coerce customers out of any statutory rights they might have? Those terms and conditions appear to apply to all users of the service, whether professional, students or hobbyists. How can Autodesk lay claim to the work of professionals who are working for paying customers?

The press would have a field day with this if someone passes the info on. Many big companies in the last couple of years had photo competitions and put up similar "rights grab" terms and conditions. Once the press got hold of it, it suddenly all changed for the better. Do a Google on "competition photo rights grab" and you might be surprised at some of the companies that tried this same shabby practice.
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Old 08 August 2012   #48
This is what happens when the big companies let their legal teams run it instead of people who actually should be in control. Same crap as Apple does, suing everything and everyone and their grandmothers for this and that without any real common sense to it.

Autodesk messed up badly (again) if they think this will attract more customers and make them popular again.

/ Magnus
 
Old 08 August 2012   #49
Originally Posted by Magnus3D: Autodesk messed up badly (again) if they think this will attract more customers and make them popular again.


Maybe Autodesk needs to run into a wall, loose serious sales, lay off some people, then go through a major reorganization, hopefully putting more competent & decent people in charge of the company's operations.

In other words, maybe things need to get really bad for Autodesk, before they get better.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #50
Here is a link on the "rights grabbing" I mentioned. I'm sure there are many more and this one is photo related, but this will give you the general idea.

http://www.dvafoto.com/2011/11/watc...t-and-turnhere/
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Old 08 August 2012   #51
I just read the whole Autodest terms and it gets even better:

"5. Indemnification. You shall, at Your sole expense and to the fullest extent permitted by law, indemnify, defend (at Autodesk’s request), and hold harmless Autodesk Parties against any and all losses, liabilities, expenses (including reasonable attorneys’ fees) suffered or incurred by Autodesk Parties by reason of any claim, suit or proceeding ("Claim") arising out of or in connection with: (a) Your Content or use of Your Content........"

So not only do you give up actual ownership & copyright of your own work for absolutely free, you also agree to assume full legal liability if Autodesk uses your images in any way that makes a 3rd party decide to sue.
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Old 08 August 2012   #52
Originally Posted by Dillster: So not only do you give up actual ownership & copyright of your own work for absolutely free, you also agree to assume full legal liability if Autodesk uses your images in any way that makes a 3rd party decide to sue.


This is completely wrong. As WesComan quoted, you retain full and complete rights to your work as per the "Your Rights" section. if this language was missing, then this _could_ be used as a rights grab. As a copyright holder, Autodesk has no permission per the TOS to make any third party use of your works. So this is mostly just fear mongering on Dillster's part.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #53
IMHO, this text is just a large catch-all safety net for Autodesk. It is used to reduce risk on their part and, as such, be able to allocate less "lawsuit insurance" budget. So it could be possible that without these clauses they'd need to spend more on lawyer insurance and, of course, pass the extra expense down on the consumer (us). IANAL, but it is my take on it.

If and when we see something bad coming out of this it is then time to take out pitch forks. Unless Autodesk is really run by Dr. Evil I don't see them stealing people's works. Datamining the data, on the other hand, is another subject and is something I'd be worried about. But, then again, Google does this, Facebook does this etc. Yet on another hand, neither of those other companies charge you for their services while Autodesk does.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #54
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz: Then there is no way in hell the legal department in my job will let me use their services.
Wow just wow.
Correct me if I am wrong ,but it reads like you are giving away your rights to your content.

I wonder how our clients would feel about this.


We've been using this at the general contractor I work at (Revit has support for this built in, including cloud rendering). Guess I should warn them.

Last edited by trancerobot : 08 August 2012 at 06:21 PM.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #55
I just thought I would point that whilst Carl Bass has spoken alot about Autodesk and Cloud services, at the same time Marc Petit has remarked that what Bass is saying might be true for AD in general, the M&E products and customers face many challenges that mean that any transition or use of the 'cloud' won't be quite as simple.

http://www.cgchannel.com/2012/04/au...soon-go-online/

Also when it comes to the 'cloud' I thought this lin was interesting :-)
http://www.citrix.com/English/NE/ne...?newsID=2328309

Last edited by Bellsey : 08 August 2012 at 09:48 PM.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #56
This might be of interest:

Steve Wozniak: Cloud Computing Will Cause 'Horrible Problems In The Next Five Years'
Quote:
"
Steve Wozniak really, really doesn't like the cloud.

The Apple cofounder slammed cloud computing during a Q&A after a recent performance of The Agony And The Ecstasy of Steve Jobs, the controversial play by Mike Daisy.

"I really worry about everything going to the cloud," Wozniak told the audience, according to a transcript from Agence France-Presse. "I think it's going to be horrendous. I think there are going to be a lot of horrible problems in the next five years."

Wozniak didn't offer much in the way of specifics about what these "horrible problems" would be, but he did hint at concerns about signing away rights to digital property stored in the cloud and generally losing ownership of that property.

"I want to feel that I own things," Wozniak said at the event. "A lot of people feel, 'Oh, everything is really on my computer,' but I say the more we transfer everything onto the web, onto the cloud, the less we're going to have control over it.""




Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/steve-wozniak-cloud-computing-will-cause-horrible-problems-in-the-next-five-years-2012-8#ixzz254Hizwyq

And for more:

Why the Cloud Sucks

Steve Wozniak

Quote:
"I've had too many personal experiences get messed up just because companies change things on the cloud. I've come to a depressed state of feeling that I own nothing on the cloud and have no ability to keep things working the way they do. Features change and get dropped, things you depend on disappear, etc. And no company will ever take responsibility. It's rare to ever get told what really happened. "

http://gizmodo.com/5932161/why-the-cloud-sucks
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Last edited by RobertoOrtiz : 08 August 2012 at 10:01 PM.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #57
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz: This might be of interest:

Steve Wozniak: Cloud Computing Will Cause 'Horrible Problems In The Next Five Years'


The only Cloud service I like, partially, is Steam... They way you can re-install deleted games from the Steam server without having to look for the game DVD...

Cloud computing has its uses... but not everything belongs in the Cloud; especially not sensitive client data.
 
Old 08 August 2012   #58
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz: Then there is no way in hell the legal department in my job will let me use their services.
Wow just wow.
Correct me if I am wrong ,but it reads like you are giving away your rights to your content.

I wonder how our clients would feel about this.



The flip side of that coin is that Microsoft doesn't to be held accountable if somebody uses the service to store kiddie porn.

I'm not saying it's right, just saying I think I get why all that nonsense is there. Did you know there was a lawsuit once over ... heck I don't even remember what it was about, but one of the pivotal moments of the case was when the judge ruled that a computer caching/buffering some data was considered a 'copy', the same way duplicating a DVD is a copy. I believe that's the sort of nonsense those terms in the agreement are trying to protect against.
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Old 08 August 2012   #59
The flip side of that coin is that Microsoft doesn't to be held accountable if somebody uses the service to store kiddie porn.


I think I get what you're trying to say, but that sentence doesn't make sense here. In the AD example, Autodesk wouldn't be preventing such material from being housed on their servers, but WOULD be claiming any and all rights to use said material ... which they obviously wouldn't want to do here ...
 
Old 08 August 2012   #60
I was responding to the 'morals' bit of it... and, my bad, I didn't finish clarifying my thought. I mentioned the bit about the ram cache and the 'copy'.. the reason I brought that up is that a cloud service has to take whatever data it gets from a client and it has to be copied, replicated, dupilicated, lotsa 'ateds in order to serve their customers. Some of that data is public facing, meaning anybody can get it. Some of it is private, meaning only the users can get their data. Some of it happens internally, i.e. engineers fixing broken machines and accidently seeing the data. There are backups, off-site backups, caches, etc. It's convoluted and the laws, as such, provide too many opportunities for loopholes. They don't want a lawsuit like: "Why didn't you delete my data from your off-site backups the moment I deactivated my account?" and nonsense like that.
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