How important is Zbrush to games?

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Old 02 February 2013   #31
ya, polypainting makes sense if you want to work in a UV-less state but once you want to start painting glossiness or add an illuminance effect for game assets, ZBrush hits a wall and you need to use a better painter like Mudbox, Mari, Bodypaint, etc. Even Photoshop Extended builds more complex shaders. You can get interesting faux-Fresnel and illustration effects in ZBrush with passes and comping but that's not very useful for building game assets other than still image icons and stuff.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #32
Thanks, good to know. I have Bodypaint here and do use it occasionally but I find generally it feels a little sluggish compared to polypaint for general painting usage.

Cheers,
Brian
 
Old 02 February 2013   #33
ya I couldn't get into it either. I am pretty happy with Mudbox as a painter. Mari is faster but more difficult to work with since stuff has to reside in the paint buffer before being baked down. So there's a gap between what's on your mesh and what's in the buffer. That's pretty limiting
 
Old 02 February 2013   #34
Quote:
Originally Posted by cgbeige
ya I couldn't get into it either. I am pretty happy with Mudbox as a painter. Mari is faster but more difficult to work with since stuff has to reside in the paint buffer before being baked down. So there's a gap between what's on your mesh and what's in the buffer. That's pretty limiting


I'd be interested to know how this is limiting. Many of the artists I speak actually like having the paint in the buffer and being able to edit, warp and reposition the pixels before committing.

One interesting thing to note is that the preview you get isn't just a simple overlay, it is doing a live projection, so spec works like spec, bump like bump etc. The live projection is pixel accurate too, if you zoom the model before painting you'll see the pixels you've painted at the correct resolution, ditto with resizing textures before projecting.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #35
Also worth looking at is Modo. You can edit you mesh to fix mistakes while the uvs update to reflect the changes. Also Modo can paint normal maps in real time which is kinda badass
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Old 02 February 2013   #36
Quote:
Originally Posted by forelle
I'd be interested to know how this is limiting. Many of the artists I speak actually like having the paint in the buffer and being able to edit, warp and reposition the pixels before committing.

One interesting thing to note is that the preview you get isn't just a simple overlay, it is doing a live projection, so spec works like spec, bump like bump etc. The live projection is pixel accurate too, if you zoom the model before painting you'll see the pixels you've painted at the correct resolution, ditto with resizing textures before projecting.


I'm interested in knowing this as well I see it as a benefit, for the same reasons you mentioned. We don' have Mari at my current job, and I am really missing it :(
 
Old 02 February 2013   #37
Quote:
Originally Posted by Horganovski
Thanks, good to know. I have Bodypaint here and do use it occasionally but I find generally it feels a little sluggish compared to polypaint for general painting usage.

Cheers,
Brian


I find it quite fast, and the ability to paint in render view is very useful. Having said that, I'm trying to do as much painting in ZBrush as possible so as to concentrate my learning on it and get a better hang of it faster.
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Old 02 February 2013   #38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dillster
I find it quite fast, and the ability to paint in render view is very useful. Having said that, I'm trying to do as much painting in ZBrush as possible so as to concentrate my learning on it and get a better hang of it faster.


Why would you like to be efficient in PP in ZB?
I would love to be able to do my painting in ZB, but I feel I am lacking the amount of control other applications have. Is there something I have missed? What is it that makes ZB your preferred painting package?
 
Old 02 February 2013   #39
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wermuth
Why would you like to be efficient in PP in ZB?
I would love to be able to do my painting in ZB, but I feel I am lacking the amount of control other applications have. Is there something I have missed? What is it that makes ZB your preferred painting package?
Well in my case it's because it's the one I own. Better PP than nothing.
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Old 02 February 2013   #40
Zbrush for game texturing isn't that convincing for me. I use Bodypaint, and it feels outdated. I think Mari is the way to go with texturing.
Zbrush for sculpting, Topogun for retopology, Mari for texturing. For normal maps I don't know what's the standard.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #41
Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankIowa
Hard surface character artists will typically not use ZBrush as much as organic character artists (mainly to do some hard surface "shaping," although I know some artists are using it more for hard surface stuff lately). I prefer using TopoGun, 3D-Coat, or curve-lofting in Maya/Max instead of ZBrush "extractions" to make armor or other accessories (it is hard to get nice edge flow with extraction and if you have to retopo you might as well just use TopoGun, 3D-Coat, or similar program).

That's interesting. I also think using shadowbox in Zbrush can be of a great help if you model something complex like a car. Will it speed-up the process starting from a Zbrush sculpt? I think it may be possible.
About accessories, if you need to build something precise, then starting in the main package seems more reasonable. Though I'd still use Zbrush for defining the main form and then using retopology to build it over as a starting point. But if it needs to have a zbrush look, and you need to get normal mapping from those parts, it may be better using Zbrush.
It seems you could use this approach for some accessories: using zbrush to define the main outline of the model, then retopo it, then precisely model accessories, and then modify it fast in zbrush for a needed look. And then subdivide and extract the normal or displacement maps.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #42
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanga
Also worth looking at is Modo. You can edit you mesh to fix mistakes while the uvs update to reflect the changes. Also Modo can paint normal maps in real time which is kinda badass

Is there a video that demonstrates this? I keep hearing about it but never been able to find an example anywhere. Sound too good to be true
 
Old 02 February 2013   #43
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanga
Also worth looking at is Modo. You can edit you mesh to fix mistakes while the uvs update to reflect the changes. Also Modo can paint normal maps in real time which is kinda badass


Getting textured stuff out of modo and set-up in a shader in another program like Maya is a total pain in the arse. I haven't touched 601, but plenty of UV transfer problems, misreading of various file information going from modo to Maya has caused plenty of headaches for me. I feel like I should own half of the Alieve company for all the money I've spent on headache meds from them. I think MudBox is going to be the best painting solution for most people working with other AD software moving forward.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #44
As far as tasks outside of texture painting and hard surface modeling ZBrush is industry standard. You won't find a decent character artist or any other artist that builds/designs organic models that doesn't know how to use ZBrush.
 
Old 02 February 2013   #45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wermuth
Why would you like to be efficient in PP in ZB?
I would love to be able to do my painting in ZB, but I feel I am lacking the amount of control other applications have. Is there something I have missed? What is it that makes ZB your preferred painting package?


I wouldn't say ZBrush is my favourite painting package. It's just that I have a very good grasp of Photoshop and Bodypaint and I need to concentrate on getting better at ZBrush faster than I am at present.
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