Final Fantasy Quality

Become a member of the CGSociety

Connect, Share, and Learn with our Large Growing CG Art Community. It's Free!

THREAD CLOSED
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Old 05 May 2012   #46
Originally Posted by CofTsucks: Several years? Really? Concept design several years to learn? Doesn't take much to draw pictures and make up a character.

Really? How about knowing anatomy, character design and stylizing, architecture, style, and myriad of other things to be a concept designer?


Originally Posted by CofTsucks: Modeling? Several years to learn modeling. It is a technical aspect, you'll always learn different flows as you go but to get the basics it doesn't take several years to learn and if he is already good at art it will not take several years.
Add to this character modeling (sculpting, topology, projection mapping), and yet you forgot texturing and uvw mapping.

[QUOTE=CofTsucks] Animating? You have already established it Animation Mentor school which is not several years, it is 1.5 years as you mentioned.

It's sheerly polishing artistic principles without rigging, skinning, particles simulation.

Originally Posted by CofTsucks: Plus there are shortcuts to everything.
For example Vue can cut out alot of effort in learning how to tree model, rock model, etc. It is used in all highend type movies and is available to him. Rigging he can borrow premade rigs and do same basic technical knowledge to get his desired effect.

Of course, the more generic your movie is, the more pre-made stuff you can use.

Originally Posted by CofTsucks: Look it takes several years, even decades to master Kung Fu or any martial arts for that matter, but it doesn't mean that within a couple of months I can't learn enough to have some moves I can use in a street fight.

Learning kung-fu in even a year won't learn you to fight well. Half a year of boxing can get you a good solid punch. But not kung-fu. Kung-fu is aimed towards many years of practice.

Originally Posted by CofTsucks: Same goes for CG. There are many technical aspects that don't take long to learn. Agreed it can take years to master and perfect but he may not need to perfect rigging if he is content with using free assets available.

Maybe you're right. Or just hiring people making some tasks, if you're rich. Then you can just direct.

Originally Posted by CofTsucks: Don't forget the power of resources and years of combined knowledge and learning. He doesn't have to pioneer anything new. He was born around technology and so we today have a firmer grasp of it. We would definitely learn how to program computers faster than someone from the 17th century due to already advanced knowledge. In like manner CG has gotten easier and quicker to pick up over the last few years. So the 20 years you put on the table is just not viable. Maybe a lifetime to perfect but not 20 years to get a basic understanding and ability.


In 20 year I think you should be pretty good, not just basic. So how CG has gotten easier to use in last years beyond cheaper RAM and processor power?


Originally Posted by CofTsucks: LIke what? Becoming a cog in the wheel.

It depends in what wheel. I doubt he would not like working in Framestore or Pixar, or any famous company. Would he? So, why not to pursue this more realistic and easier goal?

Originally Posted by CofTsucks: Sounds like he wants to visually tell his stories. Not just in a novel, written wordy way but visually. He can spend time needed to learn one skill and probably get a job doing that one thing but if that is not what he wants then what is wrong with learning how to make a film and getting good at it. I mean what if he is not looking for a job in the CG industry what if he wants to make movies of his own creation? Well the point is he can make movies of his own creation if he wants to and it doesn't take decades of learning to do it.

If he wants to visually tell stories, then he would be a storyboarder already, or would think about it. For the time being, he said he likes modeling. Modeling is perhaps the least thing needed to tell stories in my vision.

Originally Posted by CofTsucks: Here is the thing OP.

If you want to get into making movies and love doing cg and don't mind being part of the team at a studio creating cool things like Avengers, LOTR, Star Wars, etc, then your best bet is to do what the other posters are telling you. Specialize and learn how to do a specific thing really good. Specialize like doctors do. You can learn general stuff but then specialize to maximize your potential for employment and success.

but

If you are not satisfied with doing that

Why would he be not satisfied? I mean, how can you tell if a person will be satisfied with that or this until he didn't try? Why not to settle smaller, but more realistic goals? My advice in this case would be: work on each position for 1-2 years in a professional environment. If you're not good to be hired, then you probably are not ready to make your own shorts.


Originally Posted by CofTsucks: and want to tell your own stories in movie or serial format it is now possible with today's tools. Will it be Final Fantasy Advent Child level, realistically no but you can get it to a level where it looks really good. I've shared some examples. While in this process of making the movie do not quit your day job.

That will be a problem. Combining your daily job. So it's better at least to work in CG, not in culinary.

Originally Posted by CofTsucks: Keep that but buy out the time away from TV, internet and video games to make your movie, web series, comic, or game. You can do it. It doesn't take decades to learn various aspects of film making in CG form. There are shortcuts, style changes, render styles, etc that can really help in making your work pop and reduce the amount of time needed. For example, I don't do a lot of compositing because I do a lot of thngs in frame. I don't do that 20 layer stuff some folks due, just render what I want and go. But I have to plan those shots out well to do it in frame.

Sure, but this all requires lots of experience. When I started learning lighting (still on the beginning of my path), I also just could hit "render" and it would render, very slow. So taking shortcuts takes a lot of time to master.


Originally Posted by CofTsucks: They are not a study in theory but actual people who are and have made their projects.

Rare people, worldwide. With a solid artistic background, not culinary.

Originally Posted by CofTsucks: Working for a studio can be great and fun.
Working on your dream project can be great and fun.

That's what I'm talking about. It's not necessary to make your own movie to be happy, just a thought. Or move to it in small steps, working in different areas for some time. Or, collaborate with guys, having some experience, who also want to make it. Forget about building a team of inexperienced people, this doesn't work.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #47
Thank you for opening some points of view for me. I don't know what to say. I am not discouraged for some of those who said it will take several years. Even though it really takes several years. Then be it. I learned guitar as early as 7 and still learning at the age of 20. but I'm not feeling tired at all because I love what I do. CG is a really serious topic for those who do it as a job. but as a hobbyist and not really into getting some money on it, I don't see a reason not to do it. even it takes several years. Technology really gone so fast. I already did a base mesh on the day I downloaded a software. (With a tutorial from Animationmethods). That is the day when I found it was really fun. When I saw something I built that I even don't know how I did. I felt so happy because I learned something even it is still a crap. If I learned it, Why can't I improve it? So I gone back to the tutorial and analyze every move. As a week old CG wanna be. (LOL), I'm really looking for some failures and errors. That's life how it works.

"Learn from the past, Predict the future".

Last edited by campo1992 : 05 May 2012 at 03:33 AM.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #48
Correct me if I am wrong, but the guy who made Rosa had never done CG before, right? And this is his first short! Sure, he used Daz characters and mocap libraries, but Campo can too!

I don't buy the idea that if one wants to tell a story they should write a novel. Tell that to the huge number of manga artists in Japan, the majority of which write their own story and draw the whole comic by themselves. Before someone cries about the number of assistants the creator of Naruto has, know that those artists who make enough money to afford assistants are paying them out of pocket. The vast majority of manga artists cannot do that, but they draw their manga and make a decent, average living. Some still work other jobs.

Technology has made it possible that any creator can do what a manga artists does, regardless of whether it is in 2D animation, 3D animation, games or graphic novels. Not only are the tools available to create the work, but it is easier than at any point in history to get it out there in book form, on DVD, in the app store or wherever else one might wish to show off their work.

If someone wants to do it, in this day and age, there is absolutely no reason not to simply do it.
__________________
Terrence Walker
Studio ArtFX
Learn How to Make Your Own Animated Projects!
You don't need millions of dollars or major studio backing!!

Last edited by teruchan : 05 May 2012 at 05:51 AM.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #49
Originally Posted by teruchan: Correct me if I am wrong, but the guy who made Rosa had never done CG before, right? And this is his first short! Sure, he used Daz characters and mocap libraries, but Campo can too!


Thank you. That encouraged me. But what is ROSA? I haven't seen this before.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #50
Originally Posted by campo1992: Thank you. That encouraged me. But what is ROSA? I haven't seen this before.


Unfortunately I can't reach his site from where I am, but you can find a link to it in this article.

http://www.cartoonbrew.com/shorts/r...s-orellana.html
__________________
Terrence Walker
Studio ArtFX
Learn How to Make Your Own Animated Projects!
You don't need millions of dollars or major studio backing!!
 
Old 05 May 2012   #51
I saw that and made me want to make films. What is amazing is he didn't have any previous film experience and is now getting attention from Hollywood.

Quote: Letís talk shop. How did you pull off the amazing visuals? When I first started I had absolutely no idea about animation or video editing, so as a graphic-novel artist, the plan was to make a smaller 2D short film with drawings and very limited animation. Then I started experimenting with some 3D software I used previously for reference in my drawings. I did some rough animations and was very happy with the results. The rest was a lot of tutorials, time, and hard work. I worked on the short full-time, all day, all year. The first six months were mainly a trial and error process.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #52
He could really draw and had good artistic skills, those visual skills translated right across to CG. That's the stuff takes years of hard work to get good at, all the fancy tools we have these days make it no easier now than its ever been, if anything its more difficult.

Training is far more readily available but advanced tools like Photoshop and 3D software make your work output easier, your visual foundation develops very slowly if you rely on it too much. For example you can have perfect perspective while knowing nothing about perspective, you can photo bash a perfect mountain into a painting knowing nothing about how things are put together in nature.

In the long run focusing on visual ability and learning will get your work where you want it to be much faster than focusing on shortcuts to a final image. Just my opinion of course.

Last edited by conbom : 05 May 2012 at 01:57 AM.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #53
Oh and advent children? Guys! It really isn't even all that good from a visual "quality" standpoint. Its serviceable at best. The lighting is incredibly flat and generic throughout the film like they relied too much on global illumination or something.

The Spirits Within was a lot better visually, the designs, sets, vehicles, matte paintings were waay better, they had Craig Mullins and a really good team of artists and designers on that film, they really went all out. Of course the story, characters etc in all those films is seriously atrocious. I'm not excusing that!

Nonetheless Squaresoft lost a LOT of money on The Spirits Within, Advent children was therefore a much cheaper production and it shows, to be honest I don't even know why they bothered :/ I think it was direct to DVD here in the UK? It was supposed to be a big UMD release if my memory serves correctly, yeah a PSP film. wow

Last edited by conbom : 05 May 2012 at 02:26 AM.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #54
Funny thing is Advent apparently made more money that Spirits. Spirits was good looking. It better for 120,000,000.

THe fans of FF liked Advent more.

I think the problem with Spirits within was it was branded a FF movie but had nothing to really do with FF. I think it did not meet expectations.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #55
Originally Posted by AangtheAvatar: Funny thing is Advent apparently made more money that Spirits. Spirits was good looking. It better for 120,000,000.

THe fans of FF liked Advent more.

I think the problem with Spirits within was it was branded a FF movie but had nothing to really do with FF. I think it did not meet expectations.


Agree. As a semi-fan of FF. I don't see Spirit's within a touch of FF. But don't get me wrong. It is still a good product. It's just we expect more from some sword bashing stuff like the other FFS for just some SCI-FI concept.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #56
Originally Posted by conbom: ...to be honest I don't even know why they bothered :/


My guess would be because of Final Fantasy VII: International, Final Fantasy VII: AFter Story, Final Fantasy VII: (That Vincent shooting game), The new manga at the time, the series, ports to other consoles, the Uematsu concert that toured the world. I suspect that even if that movie didn't make a dime, which I know it made a lot of dimes, it sold so many other products as to be very worth the effort.

As for the look, fans of Final Fantasy apparently didn't want to see totally realistic sci-fi. They wanted the look of the games they were used to. It was for the fans.
__________________
Terrence Walker
Studio ArtFX
Learn How to Make Your Own Animated Projects!
You don't need millions of dollars or major studio backing!!
 
Old 05 May 2012   #57
Wow, this turned into an interesting read!

Yeah the question comes up about how you should make Final Fantasy. I suppose the short answer is you don't. If someone isn't an animator, character artist, designer, camera person, writer, lighter, producer you can see it because we are all so spoiled by incredible team productions. I have advent children and when I fire it up it still amazes me so I am with you on the quality thing.

Using excellent productions like this as a goal is a very good idea. Thinking about what it is you want out of the experience as an end result, or an adventure is also a great idea. Chances are you will have so much fun things will just unfold naturally for you especially if this is intended as a hobby.

The advances in technology allow you to use the skill you have. The disadvantage of these advances are they will show what an ass you really are in no time flat Your progress will be more quickly apparent though.

Have a blast!
Cheerio.

Edit: Oh yeah I forgot to add that with new methods of production and distribution available that it is not important for the work to be on the same level as FF because if that was so there would be nothing new. Who knows what you will bring to the mix?
__________________
The terminal velocity of individual particles is directly related to pink rabbits on a bank holiday.
Characters, Games, Toys

Last edited by Kanga : 05 May 2012 at 12:40 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #58
Quote: I have advent children and when I fire it up it still amazes me so I am with you on the quality thing.


Out of interest did you play the games from the PS1 era? Personally I'm amazed anyone can find that film amazing after playing the game, its not just the story, the art style, music, lighting, mood. It virtually desecrates the masterpiece in every conceivable way!

Advent children to me is the very embodiment of the caricature, shallow, pale imitation. Its success is part of the reason the latest FF game is now in a bargain bin for £9.99 Its like playing the video game of the film of the video game, its like Super Mario brothers the movie game! Its the WORST and here we are with a 4 page thread dedicated to its replication :(
 
Old 05 May 2012   #59
Originally Posted by conbom: Out of interest did you play the games from the PS1 era?

Yeah I tried one of them and I dont remember which one it was. I remember that Playstation was my first console and that the FF graphics of the game were just incredible. Game play for combat was so strange, like sort of accountancy, you know key in a combo and press enter and watch the result made me feel awfully disconnected since UT1 was direct by comparison.

I gave the game up after about 2 or 3 hours and never touched a FF title again. I have always followed their designs and the assets and work done for the games because quite frankly the quality is kickass. The film for me has nothing to do with the game but as a film done in 3d and in a style I love it never fails to impress me, no mater how old it gets.
Quote: and here we are with a 4 page thread dedicated to its replication :(

Courses for horses. No reason in the world you should like what I and many others do. I am only amazed that you are amazed
__________________
The terminal velocity of individual particles is directly related to pink rabbits on a bank holiday.
Characters, Games, Toys

Last edited by Kanga : 05 May 2012 at 08:32 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2012   #60
Originally Posted by conbom: Out of interest did you play the games from the PS1 era? Personally I'm amazed anyone can find that film amazing after playing the game, its not just the story, the art style, music, lighting, mood. It virtually desecrates the masterpiece in every conceivable way!

Advent children to me is the very embodiment of the caricature, shallow, pale imitation. Its success is part of the reason the latest FF game is now in a bargain bin for £9.99 Its like playing the video game of the film of the video game, its like Super Mario brothers the movie game! Its the WORST and here we are with a 4 page thread dedicated to its replication :(

Man what was so cool about FF game on PS1? I tried playing it, but found it utterly stupid at that time, and it was quite strange to me, considering it was so well-claimed and yet on 5 discs (we paid for each disc more). I expected to see some cool graphics, but there were countless dialogs.
 
Thread Closed share thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 01:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.