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Old 04-23-2012, 08:43 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Michael5188
Personally I've always found the Norse God aspect the hardest to fit into the mix, considering everything else is very science focused.


Actually it was spelled out quite clearly in the Thor movie that the Asgardians aren't gods even if the primitive vikings worshiped them a thousand years ago. But they're actually just aliens and all their 'magic' is simply very advanced technology.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:48 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by Artbot
I can get behind the sci-fi premise of something like Spiderman or Ironman, but then they make costumes and decide to fight crime? Oh, please!


Actually, most of these characters aren't doing that, seems like Marvel's aware of the changing times

Iron Man was mostly against terrorists using his weapons against american soldiers; and a personal threat in IM2. Thor was about internal conflicts of some aliens. Hulk was basically running from the military, and Rogers was fighting Nazis (granted, they were a bit cartoonishly overdone). So it's not about bank robbers and purse thieves any more
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:51 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by webhead
And, an alien invasion to boot! It's got it all! The only thing missing are some big musical numbers. Just imagine the Hulk singing, "It's not easy being green."


If this was a bollywood movie, we would have that as well, not to mention at least 3 of the superheroes going EMO over Scarlett Johanson....
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:50 PM   #19
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No. No it doesn't. I'm not trying to crap on people's love of these characters, but I have always found the conceit of superheroes to be ridiculous. I can get behind the sci-fi premise of something like Spiderman or Ironman, but then they make costumes and decide to fight crime? Oh, please! To be fair, I think that these types of comics characters have become more ridiculous looking over time. The preponderance of technology is so widespread across all cultures and classes that the once-amazing "powers of science" no longer holds the fantastic appeal it did decades ago. When more than half the country was agrarian, Superman seemed like a wild fantasy. Now he just looks like some cosplaying freak. All that aside, if it's entertaining and well structured, I'd probably rent it


It is crazy but oh so fun!

But then again if folks did have super powers I'd think to some extent they would become superheroes. Take any nerd to some degree, give them super powers and most folks I think to some degree or other would be a superhero.

or use it to make money.

I don't think they have become more ridiculous over time, they have become more awesome. They are a great escape, everyone loves a hero. People show they love the heroes by the money they spend on them. It has more appeal now than it did decades ago because now you can put it on the big screen properly.

The concept of superheroes is as old as man itself and will never get old. They are in our blood. You see it as crazy, I see it as a part of man's history in one form or other. Man has always made stories of great heroes who were more than normal. It is a story almost as old as love itself.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 03:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkjedi1929
If this was a bollywood movie, we would have that as well...

Don't count Bollywood out just yet! We may still live to see the Hulk sing and dance.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:22 PM   #21
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Misfits is probably the most accurate depiction of what real people would do with super powers. Shag and kill their probation officer. (Watch that show BTW, its hilarious).
 
Old 04-23-2012, 04:32 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CofTsucks
It is crazy but oh so fun!

I agree. It's pure fantasy. It's stuff from our childhoods. It's not based on scientific fact, or on any actual events. You could pick apart The Wizard Of Oz if you really wanted to. "How can a scarecrow move and talk without a brain? I mean, really?" Maybe, because The Avengers tries to have one foot based in reality, that people feel a need to pick it apart, and look under the hood and see what makes it tick. I have to admit, I didn't really expect all this analysis and debate over the probability of the events in this movie ever taking place. If it has to make total sense, and be completely logical, then it's probably not for you. Otherwise, take it for what it is - pure escapism, and just enjoy the ride.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CofTsucks
The concept of superheroes is as old as man itself and will never get old.

I do hope your right. There are so many superhero movies, I just wonder how long before it reaches the saturation point when audiences have finally had enough of them.
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:48 PM   #23
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Why do people debate the realism of a movies premise?
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:56 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by Per-Anders
Why do people debate the realism of a movies premise?

Debating whether these superheroes are believable, or not. The individual superheroes in THE AVENGERS are pretty well established in their own right, as are other Marvel heroes like Spider-Man. I guess I just didn't expect a big discussion on how logical these characters are as being an issue at this point. Obviously, there is the real concern of how well they can bring all these superheroes together in one movie and make it work, but I just wasn't expecting so much debate on the believabilty of these characters.
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Last edited by webhead : 04-23-2012 at 05:18 PM.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 04:57 PM   #25
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Taiwanese are going to watch this movie since tomorrow mid-night!

Audiences Reactions 1:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VsDb7OS7AFA

Audiences Reactions 2:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ftRYiKVSIw

Review:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRX5AW--IyA
"En resumen: Los Vengadores es una gran película. Un ejemplar ejercicio de cine de acción capaz. Y un decisivo paso adelante para imponer un nuevo ritmo y estilo a las adaptaciones de los cómics Marvel al cine."
"In short: the avengers is a great film. this is a great sample of Action movie. it is crucial for the next step in order to impose a new rhythm and style from Marvel comics to the movies."
 
Old 04-23-2012, 05:25 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by webhead
Debating whether these superheroes are believable, or not. The individual superheroes in THE AVENGERS are pretty well established in their own right, as are other Marvel heroes like Spider-Man. I guess I just didn't expect a big discussion on how logical these characters are as being an issue at this point. Obviously, there is the real concern of how well they can bring all these superheroes together in one movie and make it work, but I just wasn't expecting so much debate on the believabilty of these characters.


I think in this case it's that because it's an ensemble of unlikely teamups, the believability of some of the characters is tilted by the presence of some of the others. I do agree that Thor has always seemed a little out of place in the mix since all of his power is genuine magic, and all of the other members are basically "science" based, as far as outrageous comic book science will take it at least. Also I think maybe that the more fantastical elements you introduce the harder it might be to suspend disbelief. But really I think Thor is the only wild card, the rest seem fine in the same universe, IMO.

I liked how they handled it in the Ultimates, where they first claimed he was a nutcase who had stolen an experimental russian power suit, and they left that hanging for quite a while until you get to know he truly is the real Thor, and Loki was messing with everyone to drive him crazy, instead of just laying it out so simply.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 05:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypercube
I think in this case it's that because it's an ensemble of unlikely teamups, the believability of some of the characters is tilted by the presence of some of the others. I do agree that Thor has always seemed a little out of place in the mix since all of his power is genuine magic, and all of the other members are basically "science" based, as far as outrageous comic book science will take it at least. Also I think maybe that the more fantastical elements you introduce the harder it might be to suspend disbelief. But really I think Thor is the only wild card, the rest seem fine in the same universe, IMO.
I think you are right. Thor is out there a bit more than the others are. Still, to someone who has read THE AVENGERS comics since childhood, as I have, Thor has been right there fighting alongside the rest of them for quite some time. He's not standing out so much to me. In fact, he's right were I expect him to be. Also, as Laa-Yosh already mentioned, they did try to make his existence more scientific in the THOR movie, just as Lucas tried to make the force more science based in the prequels, which I hated.
So, is Thor really that much harder to believe than the invading alien army they're battling? Or, a guy who after being exposed to radiation, turns green when he gets angry, is powerful enough to withstand artillery, and no matter how big he gets, or how much action he sees, his pants never rip off of him. Hey, I'm just going with it.
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Last edited by webhead : 04-23-2012 at 05:45 PM.
 
Old 04-23-2012, 05:44 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laa-Yosh
Actually it was spelled out quite clearly in the Thor movie that the Asgardians aren't gods even if the primitive vikings worshiped them a thousand years ago. But they're actually just aliens and all their 'magic' is simply very advanced technology.


Sure, but even if it is explained by "science", he still seems out of place. Just the names (Thor, Odin, etc/), the giant hammer that gives him super strength, I don't know, you can say it's science all you want but to me they didn't really sell that idea. You can't just take all these concepts and stick the word science on it and make it suddenly fit.

(plus just talking Avengers in general outside of the films I believe it is magic and not science)

I also feel like he kind of puts the others to shame. The battle in the beginning of the Thor movie makes him pretty much invincible. In fact the whole film only has conflict cause he loses his hammer. Any time he has it the fight is easily his. How does a bash from his hammer not completely obliterate Iron Man's suit? Seems like they scaled down his power for Avengers.
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:52 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Michael5188
Sure, but even if it is explained by "science", he still seems out of place. Just the names (Thor, Odin, etc/), the giant hammer that gives him super strength, I don't know, you can say it's science all you want but to me they didn't really sell that idea. You can't just take all these concepts and stick the word science on it and make it suddenly fit.

(plus just talking Avengers in general outside of the films I believe it is magic and not science)

I also feel like he kind of puts the others to shame. The battle in the beginning of the Thor movie makes him pretty much invincible. In fact the whole film only has conflict cause he loses his hammer. Any time he has it the fight is easily his. How does a bash from his hammer not completely obliterate Iron Man's suit? Seems like they scaled down his power for Avengers.
You make some good points. I was watching the battle at the beginning of Thor just the other day, and I thought, Thor is pretty unbeatable on his own. He doesn't really need his father's help to take on all these frost giants. I do wonder if they had to dumb down his power for The Avengers.
They would do that kind of thing in the comics. When they wanted to have two superheroes battling each other in the same comic, they would dumb down one of the heroes powers to make it work. I always hated that.
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Old 04-23-2012, 05:54 PM   #30
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It's frustrating that so many of these threads come down to "If it has to make total logical sense to you, then it's probably not for you." This is not what I said. I said that the premises and "believability" of superheroes is somewhat compromised by today's more technically savvy audience.

Again, as it so often does, it comes down to the suspension of disbelief. Every movie uses this, even ones that appear to be realistic or factual. You can tear any movie apart, but when the internal logic supports the characters and story to the point where the viewer simply goes along with it without question, then it succeeds in suspending your disbelief. Every movie does this to a different extent and very viewer has a different level of acceptance of it.

I totally agree that the mythology of superhuman characters is perpetual and goes back many centuries. The use of them in modern movies and comics is just the latest implementation of this mythos. I'm certainly not arguing that it will ever go away completely.
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