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Old 04-12-2012, 01:39 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zendorf
Unfortunately Maxon also require you to buy/upgrade through a reseller. The current US price for R13 Studio is $3695 , while in Australia we have to pay $4433. Not as bad as it used to be ratio wise, but still sucks considering the Australian dollar is currently worth more than the US dollar.

At least Luxology, Pixologic and Side Effects have the right idea by selling online. The antiquated reseller model needs to die a painful death. My local resellers are absolutely useless and wouldn't know a polygon from a vertice yet I am supposedly getting value added and support by going through them...

That's basically the crux of the issue if these big companies go direct web sales globally all in USD it will literally crush their local reseller channel over night..

Although it will happen eventually buying digital software via a physically retailer really a business model of the past...
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:56 PM   #32
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I recently contacted Adobe, and asked if it was possible to purchase a CS suite from the US, as its a download so no shipping and it's cheaper. US vs UK

The response was that I could but I would not be eligible for uk support.

I can't remember ever using any Adobe support since I beta tested photoshop when the mac was still on system 7 so that seems fine to me.

Less clear however was how legitmate it would be to use it in business. I'm going to see if I can get a response in writing. otherwise I will have to dig deep and purchase a UK version.
 
Old 04-12-2012, 03:41 PM   #33
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As it should. When was the last time anyone benefited from having a local reseller?
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:29 PM   #34
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I imagine with a larger company deailing with hundreds of licences then they might get some worth from a local reseller. For the majority of smaller studios/freelancers online purchasing has got the be the way to go surely.
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Old 04-12-2012, 04:37 PM   #35
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Monthly subscriptions ala Adobe CS6 Creative Cloud would solve the problem.
(and probably create other ones)
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:12 PM   #36
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Quote:


Monthly subscriptions ala Adobe CS6 Creative Cloud would solve the problem.
(and probably create other ones)



Yep. It would create others for sure. If the entire Adobe suite went to the cloud, the company I work for would drop it so fast it's not even funny. I'd be forced to find alternative options ... like Art Rage ...

Quote:

As it should. When was the last time anyone benefited from having a local reseller?


Once with Zbrush and twice with XSI I've had a local reseller help out with issues that would have been time consuming and a huge pain in the ass for me to do alone.
 
Old 04-12-2012, 10:17 PM   #37
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If anyone needs software let me know. I'll go out and parallel buy it for you. It will be cost of software in US + shipping box + 100 service charge.

j/k but yeah serious. Maybe not, or am I. Could be but might not be. If it is legal I'll do it or might not do it. Not software company legal, I can care less about their rules, they don't set the law especially if they are doing something illegal.

I'm checking on laws here in US right now. I have a pretty good idea since I used to work and be in charge of international shipping for a large fortune 500 company.

Let me know if there is a need first. In the meantime I'm going to check up on this parallel shipping stuff and find out which countries it is cool without violating any law.
 
Old 04-12-2012, 11:11 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CofTsucks
I wonder if there is a legal way to screw them over, like someone buy locally and ship for added cost of shipping plus 100 bucks for their service. How could one do that? Could I do 10 a week? Maybe 5?

Hmmm that would be fun. It might save some companies money and still be perfectly legal simply being third party distributor.

Why is this not being done already? What are the legalities?


New Zealand allows parallel importing and I know of a company here that sells US-sourced copies of PS at a cost comparable to that in the US (plus GST, our local product tax). For example, they sell the CS5.5 Design Premium suite for NZ$2700 compared to NZ$3800 from another, 'official' dealer. They've been doing it for ages so I assume it is legal here. Much depends on your local laws.

However, what effect owning parallel-imported software might have should you require support from Adobe I don't know. For parallel imported physical products, manufacturers do not offer guarantees, although the retailer might, and consumer protection laws might also hold in the case of faulty goods.
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Old 04-12-2012, 11:17 PM   #39
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I could be wrong but don't Autodesk make you accept the EULA at the checkout? And when you buy it isn't it all linked through automatically with card details. There are so many ways to obfuscate the process I would not be at all surprised if they released the legal hounds on this. And made it hideously confusing and uncertain where your rights are.

I think it may differ for "retail" boxed packages as those are much easier to source on the gray market, more like actual goods where everything is self contained. Check Ebay for Photoshop for example. Sealed copies there are much cheaper than the Adobe price and totally legit, if Adobe ever mounted a legal challenge I expect it would be thrown out of court within seconds. Bear in mind that is pure speculation, they might sue your ass off for all I know

An online store of fully legit gray market software would make me very pleased indeed. It already happens with video game retailers selling cheap legitimate download codes

I mean Autodesk say you cant sell on a licence, that has got to be bullshit. What happens if you buy a company? and it has a computer? and it has Maya on it? What then. Is THAT illegal? So either you sold the licence or you sold the rental agreement of the licence. Either way something has been sold otherwise company takeovers would be completely impossible, without re-buying ALL the software. Such things especially in the engineering business would severely devalue the company. I don't see how they can have a leg to stand on with that kind of precedent.

Hell what about the companies and assets THEY bought, surely they bought the studio and its assets too. Which is exactly what they are trying to prevent :/

Here is another example. I have an Orange and it comes with a licence of Maya contained within its core. Therefore I sell you the orange for $3000 and you get the Maya licence absolutely free, thus you get Maya without actually buying or selling any software, just very expensive oranges, their argument against the sale of software is just incredibly illogical

Last edited by conbom : 04-12-2012 at 11:39 PM.
 
Old 04-13-2012, 02:37 AM   #40
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I'm another Australian user, and am sick of the extreme price hikes compared to the US.
When I first purchased Adobe CS Production Premium, The price in Australia was around 4 grand. I instead decided to take a risk and import it from an online 'grey' site for $1000 incl. postage.

I received a boxed copy of CS4 with a valid serial number. all was good. Registered it in my name. I had actually purchased CS4 2 weeks before CS5 came out, so filled out a form on adobe.com to get a free complimentary 'post announce' upgrade to CS5. It was then that I had problems.

Adobe spent 3 weeks without getting back to me. They finally emailed to say that my upgrade request had 'issues' but all was good. They sent me a free copy of CS5!

A year later I realised via a text chat with adobe support that my 'grey' copy of CS4 had actually been a student version, but they had given me the upgrade to CS5 anyway. My licence is still valid and in my name.

The moral of this story: I was lucky. If a deal sounds too good to be true, it probably is.



I think with Autodesk, things are a lot different.

Quote:
Here is another example. I have an Orange and it comes with a licence of Maya contained within its core. Therefore I sell you the orange for $3000 and you get the Maya licence absolutely free, thus you get Maya without actually buying or selling any software

The problem here is, I would have sold you an orange, and given you the Maya Licence for free, but wouldn't the licence would still be in my name? you would have to contact autodesk to change that. I believe Autodesk allows transfer of licences only when a company has gone into liquidation and you have to provide proof.

Here's an interesting article from a few years ago, Autodesk tried to ban sales of second hand software and lost the court case:
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/...ed-software.ars


And finally:
Quote:
If anyone needs software let me know. I'll go out and parallel buy it for you. It will be cost of software in US + shipping box + 100 service charge.

This sounds like a great way to beat the stupid Autodesk system, and a few companies seem to do it already:
http://www.priceusa.com.au/
One site aimed directly at australians. Interesting that some of their most frequently imported products are Adobe and Adsk software!
 
Old 04-13-2012, 03:20 AM   #41
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Quote:
The problem here is, I would have sold you an orange, and given you the Maya Licence for free, but wouldn't the licence would still be in my name? you would have to contact autodesk to change that. I believe Autodesk allows transfer of licences only when a company has gone into liquidation and you have to provide proof.


Thats actually a good point, its interesting how Autodesk "allows" you to transfer if its a company in liquidation but not if your an individual or freelancer, or just a company who wants to sell and use different software for their business. Be interested to know what happens to liquidated companies software licences. To me it seems like the software price is being artificially inflated as there is no effect of supply and demand on the individual product.

The Photoshop price does seem to be effected by this more. Admittedly there are sellers with cheap student copies but I do also see many commercial licences being sold by them too.

slightly off topic:
There is talk of the big games companies going "nuclear" by introducing a similar control on used video games. The digital prices at the moment are kept in check by physical copies that can be re-sold, exported etc. Can be fairly sure it wont remain so if that does happen. I read today a plus side is it could *possibly* lead to better single player games and greater risks taken by the publishers, there will be less pressure to make those perpetual multiplayer titles. and if the game is crap or too short the market wont get flooded with used versions.

Last edited by conbom : 04-13-2012 at 03:45 AM.
 
Old 04-13-2012, 08:52 AM   #42
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lol
 
Old 04-13-2012, 08:55 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MICKFX
When I first purchased Adobe CS Production Premium, The price in Australia was around 4 grand. I instead decided to take a risk and import it from an online 'grey' site for $1000 incl. postage.

A year later I realised via a text chat with adobe support that my 'grey' copy of CS4 had actually been a student version


You must have known full well that what you were buying wasnt kosher surely? The "you speak english but youre not american" tax adds 10-30% on top much of the time, theres no way a 4k package being sold for 1k was going to be legit.
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Old 04-13-2012, 10:15 AM   #44
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Then there's also the problem of taxes in your own country that get added to the already high price. The taxes/customs and VAT here in Iceland are so high that in many cases it's actually cheaper to fly to another country, buy what you want and bring it back. Even throw in a couple of nights at a hotel and it'd still be cheaper than buying it here. (This was also normal before our currency crashed btw.)


Someone here mentioned C4D/Maxon. I remember when a studio I used to work for went on to order Maxon's Bodypaint. There is no local Maxon reseller so the supervisor ordered it online and then waited for confirmation e-mail.

The next day we got an e-mail from Maxon stating that our copy would be shipped withing a few days. Then a day later, we got an e-mail saying that they didn't ship to Iceland.

At this point, Mari had been published 2 days earlier. We went with Mari.
 
Old 04-13-2012, 10:25 AM   #45
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I remember some hassle a few years ago when we tried to buy ArchiCAD licences in Austria and found out that they were a lot more expensive than in Germany.
So we just ordered them from a German retailer. The retailer in Austria went mad and claimed that this would be illegal and whatever, which is clearly bullshit, because there is free market between EU countries.
It's time to get rid of this stupid retailer system. The 3d graphics retailers in Austria are shady, to say the least. It's nothing more than a single guy sitting in some room in front of a computer, maintaining some online store, who has no clue what he is actually selling.
There is no "support" whatsoever.
Even if you consider local Autodesk "support". If you call there you will be speaking with some guy sitting in India anyway, so where are the local expenses?
 
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