Tables for 3D production

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  05 May 2010
Originally Posted by mister3d: Experiment with triangles and n-gons. Just use what you feel is right, without too much theoretizing. Some basic theory, and then dive in into modeling!

No theoretizing? Psshhh... what am i going to do with out it... working for real? Stalling rocks!

Thanks
 
  05 May 2010
Originally Posted by animatics: No theoretizing? Psshhh... what am i going to do with out it... working for real? Stalling rocks!

Thanks

From your examples sometimes it seems it lacks practical sense. But it's a great job nonetheless you did. For example I would never do such a cross-like topology, like in your last examples. It just looks wrong. I think topology is not such a difficult topic to understand, and doesn't need a book written on it. Especially since we have retopology tools which are so popular today. Just if you choose between practising and researching, I would say it's better practising. but if you feel it's what you need, go on. I spent some time on this but practically-wise, you need 10% of knowledge for most practical situations, and 90% is just theory, which is most likely will never be used.
 
  05 May 2010
I agree. Most of times i pursued these stuff out of curiosity and not because i hit a brick wall while working on something or shown practical examples. Anyway, still learned alot =)

Only thing i didn't understand was this in your post.
Originally Posted by mister3d: For example I would never do such a cross-like topology, like in your last examples.


Cheers

Last edited by animatics : 05 May 2010 at 09:56 PM.
 
  05 May 2010
Originally Posted by animatics: I agree. Most of times i pursued these stuff out of curiosity and not because i hit a brick wall while working on something or shown practical examples. Anyway, still learned alot =)

Only thing i didn't understand was this in your post.


Cheers

I would add n-gons and triangles only when you have to add too much polygons, complicating the mesh. In those examples you use a more regular topology would work better. One reason is you have "not reliable" topology there: geometry doesn't follow the flow. It's better if your base geometry is similar to what you have in the end.
 
  05 May 2010
Thanks for making it clear.

I'm still waiting for Jacco to answer this post ^^

Cheers
 
  05 May 2010
I'm loving the tables, Animatics, very clear and useful. I wish I saw this stuff a few years back.

I'd like to ask this here if that's ok: If we look at your 3rd post here http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthr...51&page=1&pp=15, the extruded 8 sided polygon in a sphere. These are forms that nurbs were designed for, a simple booleon+extrusion+fillet. Yet with polys you have to do a lot more thought/work to get a similar result.

When processing/rendering gets to the stage where the polycount between a sub-divided and a nurbs model isn't much of an issue do you think that nurbs will be used a lot more for these hard surface forms? Are there other problems when using them for these forms?

I hope I'm not diverting your thread at all.

PS. Animatics I'd like to see some more illustrations of various shapes extruded out of hard curved surfaces (ie triangle out of a sphere etc). Keep up the good work.
 
  05 May 2010
Hi Playdo
Glad you find it useful.

As for NURBS i know very little about them. I know the Boolean Operations give less headaches than with polygons, but rendering matter i know nothing, since LW doesn't have them for now.
But funny, you were not the first to bring them to the matter; ron viers did too.
http://www.nurbsandpolys.com/forums...p=3215#post3215
I got no problem with ppl bringing other matters to the thread, i just hope someone other than me can answer them.

If you want to see more insertions, Richard Culver made some.
go bottom of this page http://www.lightwiki.com/Fundamenta...eling_Part_Four
and also check this one http://www.lightwiki.com/Fundamenta...eling_Part_Five

To make insertions the basic lead is to make a connecting loop in each object with the same vertex count, while keeping them with the original shape and hidding the stepping edge in flat areas.
After you can play around with the sharpness of the connection by loosening the control loops or even deleting them and the connect loop.

Here is an example i did a while ago.


Cheers
 
  07 July 2010
Originally Posted by animatics:
Originally Posted by mister3d: All-quads technique is predictable, ...
And still we have not yet seen (i think :P) a retopology tool using that to generate mesh automaticaly. Imagine you putting poles markers in a Volumetric Sculpter like in 3D coat and BAMM... Key Loops.

Cheers


Well... there it goes...
http://www.graphics.rwth-aachen.de/...siggraph_01.pdf

Applyed in 3D-Coat. (not released yet)
http://www.3d-coat.com/forum/index....indpost&p=46065
http://www.screencast.com/users/And...b9-423823dedaa1

Last edited by animatics : 07 July 2010 at 05:10 AM.
 
  07 July 2010
i like it , animatics,
its very good for basic edge loop lesson for high poly modeling.
especially on hard surface modeling.

if you see slipgatecentral demo here
http://vimeo.com/5738519
he use lots of edgeloop technique to save poly count
also btw some micro dent are faked with concave half sphere.



however depending on where you want to do all quad technique, some model need to be evenly spaced. especially model that need to have deformation. like facial and muscle.

also video game model cylinder is different from hi-poly modeling, in Animatics chart
we can use C ( divided)
to conserve the tris count :
6 sided cylinder top must only have 4 tris
and 8 sided cylinder top must only have 6 tris.

otherwise, N-gon should be fine ( but use it wisely) for todays game engine
__________________
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Last edited by Wongedan : 07 July 2010 at 05:45 AM.
 
  07 July 2010
@Wongedan
First of all, thanks for the that video link. Superb material.

I didnt understand the following quote from your post.Central division uses quads so 6sided->3quads, 8 sided->4quads. But are refering to triangles, like in the image. Can you explain your point?



Originally Posted by Wongedan: also video game model cylinder is different from hi-poly modeling, in Animatics chart
we can use C ( divided)
to conserve the tris count :
6 sided cylinder top must only have 4 tris
and 8 sided cylinder top must only have 6 tris.


_____

Another video on 3D-Coat development of a topology smart auto retopo. http://bit.ly/9s0RKh
Updates here http://twitter.com/andrewshpagin

Cheers
 
  11 November 2010
excellent work and especially teaching, which is rare on this subject!
that is clear and built to be open to all.
please continue on this path!
 
  02 February 2011
I wanted to touch the subject of using triangles, as well as n-gons for sub-modeling. It's not my revelation, Stahlberg was referring to this already, as well as some other users. So basically where you have big deforming mesh (big means the main mesh - big polygons on a model), topology should be uniform, especially where joints are. But when you model clothes and different complex stuff, where you have many loops and corners, there's nothing wrong with using triangles and n-gons to finish their flow where necessary. This won't affect deformation, as the areas are very small, and won't produce any major texture stretching. Though you even can use those in bigger areas sometimes, when the undesirable loop is more unwanted than the negative effect it will do on a mesh.
 
  05 May 2011
Thank you mister3d. Your post made it crystal clear to me.

By the way subdivisionmodeling.com is down!!! SubD morelers, let's make some noise

More details here http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?p=6988930

Cheers

Last edited by animatics : 05 May 2011 at 10:59 PM.
 
  05 May 2011
Great tables and initiative, iŽll give them a better look later, but looks great and useful.

Thanks for sharing this.
__________________
My anatomy thread
web
 
  11 November 2011
Click on images to enlarge!

Proposition for another approach mesh freezing/dicing when using edges weight patches (closed groups)





Speculat Light test to see how different 'stepping elements'/'grid disturbs' interfere with the smoothing





Subidvision corner solutions. How Edge Weight should be used and why.




Mesh debug and Topology color code display proposition




Table for SubD circles size fix and blending.


Cheers

Last edited by animatics : 11 November 2011 at 08:42 PM.
 
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