Ouya - Android based, Kickstarter funded Game Console

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  07 July 2012
Originally Posted by DePaint: Exactly. If people spend good money on Android phones & tablets - and they do -, why wouldn't they buy an Android console for the living room?

Especially if it doesn't cost much & lets you play your favorite Android games on a 32"- 55" HD TV.


Well the problem they're going to have has nothing to do with the hardware. If they can build it for less than it costs to get it sold, they can make a profit... but they need to sell the consoles in the first place to make a profit.

Personally I'd love to develop for it, I'm just a little barely-indy guy... I've got my Breakout clone on the way. But what I really want people to use is a controller for my games, not a screen. I bought Sonic CD for my tablet and I really don't like playing it much because of that screen... there's no tactile response, and sometimes my thumbs miss the target at critical times. I'd love to play other people's games on such a console as well.

It's just a question of if the developers will support it. With the controllers, Android devs are going to have to adapt their games to that. It should be easy, but if not enough developers do it, then the console will fail for adoption reasons.

It should be alright in the short term I think. I mean, the thing will come out and we'll get to play with it... I hope.
 
  07 July 2012
Originally Posted by trancerobot: But what I really want people to use is a controller for my games, not a screen. I bought Sonic CD for my tablet and I really don't like playing it much because of that screen...

It's just a question of if the developers will support it. With the controllers, Android devs are going to have to adapt their games to that. It should be easy, but if not enough developers do it, then the console will fail for adoption reasons.


I play sonic on my galaxy S I with a keyboard just fine. Which probably means most games come with controls in the first place (hence they can put them on an imaginary touch one), the keyboard is just remapping these to a physical button.
I'm not sure how this will work for touch based games like angry birds where swiping is necessary, but the developers could easily make their controls work for most games.
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Last edited by leif3d : 07 July 2012 at 08:52 PM.
 
  07 July 2012
It's cute that everyone seems to think it's "easy" to adapt swipe/touch controls to a button controller. First, there is often no analogous counterpart from one to the other. Second, it's not that it might not be technically easy, but then the dev/pub has to implement and test another whole UI scheme, something that is not fast or cheap. The last thing devs want is a return to the multi-hardware standard of the old days. Development is already expensive enough, it seems a bad move to expect devs/pubs to add to their expense unless there were some potential big gain in return, and I just don't see that. The overwhelming migration in games has been from console/pc to mobile. It seems like swimming upstream to try to go the other way.

Again, I say this console is a solution in search of a problem.
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  07 July 2012
Originally Posted by Artbot: It's cute that everyone seems to think it's "easy" to adapt swipe/touch controls to a button controller.


You do realize there is a touch-pad on the controller, right? Maybe add a day of development at most to make sure the touch pad gets mapped to the proper screen coordinates and you're done.

Originally Posted by Artbot: Second, it's not that it might not be technically easy, but then the dev/pub has to implement and test another whole UI scheme, something that is not fast or cheap.


You have a good point here in that supporting more devices is an added cost no matter what way you look at it. However, if you're smart about developing your game for multi-platform from the start (such as leveraging Unity's ability to export to multiple platforms very easily) it's not the big daunting task you make it out to be.


trancerobot - You pretty much perfectly summed up what the device is meant to be and why someone would be excited for it. I personally can't wait to get my hands on this thing and start developing my game for it (also PC / MAC / Linux in tandem). I tried an early prototype of it on my Android phone and absolutely hated it.
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Last edited by grantmoore3d : 07 July 2012 at 09:29 PM.
 
  07 July 2012
Thought this might be relevant, Square enix has just announced it will release Final Fantasy III as a launch title for the Ouya.

Source:
Final Fantasy III On Ouya

Perhaps more publishers will also add launch titles? Who knows? I doubt it to be honest but the optimist in me wants the console to do well and I think backing from major publishers will help...
 
  07 July 2012
Originally Posted by drparsnips: Perhaps more publishers will also add launch titles? Who knows? I doubt it to be honest but the optimist in me wants the console to do well and I think backing from major publishers will help...


Its going to be interesting to see how many Ouya consoles get bought when it launches.

A few thousand to ten thousand? (= fail)

A few hundred thousand? (= somewhat successful)

Over a million units? (= successful to very_successful, depending on final number)


Who really knows?


The fact that Ouya has shattered all previous funding records on Kickstarter is a pretty strong indicator that the Ouya console appeals to gamers.

I'm hoping that the Ouya does well. Maybe I'll even buy one for my living room when its available...
 
  07 July 2012
I think they have missed a trick with this one. Instead of all the headache and effort of ceating the console complete with hardware, the future is sure a plugin device, you plug your smart phone in that already has the amazing gfx card, processors etc. This lets you use you phone on your TV with a gamepad which is so much better than on a tiny touch screen. Stereo makers saw this years ago with all your ipod docks.

Upgrade your phone and your home console upgrades too.

I see the same with Ipads, youll just be buyinga screen soon and pluggin your iphone into it, why do we need duplicates of the same processors, gfx cards etc, just to view the same content running on the same os on a slightly larger screen???
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  07 July 2012
Originally Posted by Artbot: It's cute that everyone seems to think it's "easy" to adapt swipe/touch controls to a button controller.

It's cute that you think people in forums are cute...
Originally Posted by Artbot: First, there is often no analogous counterpart from one to the other. Second, it's not that it might not be technically easy, but then the dev/pub has to implement and test another whole UI scheme, something that is not fast or cheap. The last thing devs want is a return to the multi-hardware standard of the old days. Development is already expensive enough, it seems a bad move to expect devs/pubs to add to their expense unless there were some potential big gain in return, and I just don't see that. The overwhelming migration in games has been from console/pc to mobile. It seems like swimming upstream to try to go the other way.

Big developers are finding it attractive to publish for it already, so whatever problems there might be with the console is surely less relevant than the advantages they are finding.
There's no reason to play games that were designed for touch on Ouya, but there are many great games that would play much better on a control and a tv. Also small developers could sell content for a buck that would remap these control schemes, etc. The possibilities are there, but people need to be willing to give it time for creativity to flourish.
Also, no one is talking about all the other ideas that the makers are proposing, like cheap sdk availability, hacking possibilities, etc.

Even if the console doesn't become very popular, the fact that it's taking chances by going a different route than the traditional consoles is refreshing and might provide devs out there with the necessary tools for creative opportunities that were previously unavailable.

My point being, even if it sucks, at least it's trying to be something else. I find value in that.
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Last edited by leif3d : 07 July 2012 at 08:54 PM.
 
  07 July 2012
Originally Posted by irwit: Upgrade your phone and your home console upgrades too.

I see the same with Ipads, youll just be buyinga screen soon and pluggin your iphone into it, why do we need duplicates of the same processors, gfx cards etc, just to view the same content running on the same os on a slightly larger screen???


The problem for game developers in the mobile sector is fragmentation due to constant upgrades and changes in hardware. When designing a game for phone you have to account for hundreds of different devices. This might be manageable for larger studios but it's absolute hell for small teams.

The biggest benefit this console offers to both the developer and consumer is a standard platform that will last a few years. Games being developed for it will know exactly what the end hardware will be (tegra3 + HD resolutions) and can put more effort into making awesome games to utilize the full potential instead of spreading their efforts.


Originally Posted by leif3d: Even if the console doesn't become very popular, the fact that it's taking chances by going a different route than the traditional consoles is refreshing and might provide devs out there with the necessary tools for creative opportunities that were previously unavailable.

My point being, even if it sucks, at least it's trying to be something else. I find value in that.


That reason alone is why I gave them $150. Even if it fails, that money has been well spent to open up these kinds of conversations and getting people thinking in new directions. Given the other thread on here about "what's wrong with games" or whatever it is... I think it's interesting to see new opportunities popping up.
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Last edited by grantmoore3d : 07 July 2012 at 08:59 PM.
 
  07 July 2012
it will work

I think it will work.

- Looking at what happened with Fez and Microsoft (regarding patching cost), I think indies could use an open console. Will these steals indie developers from other platfrom, I don't know, but we will see.
- People complain about launch titles. Their partnership with OnLive solves that problem. I do admit that not everyone have fast broadband. but those that "backers" this project could be on the high end side.
- Developers complain about the "scattered" version of android, and the many devices. This is a platform that allow them to handle one OS version, and one hardware type.
- What Valve doing (developing a linux engine) and other comments regarding Win 8 (including recently, Blizzard) shows that even high end developers are looking at another platform.

Anyway, with USD 5 million in user funding (and this kind of excitement will bring how many million angel investor investment, I don't know, but at least they have a product, and they know how to monetize it).

And with Square willing to port FF3 to this platfrom (although I do admit, there was an adroid version before iOS, right?), I think it cemented the deal.

It could be just like NDS 3D when it first came out. There will be sales. Although not big. But in the long run, we'll see.
 
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by leif3d: Even if the console doesn't become very popular, the fact that it's taking chances by going a different route than the traditional consoles is refreshing and might provide devs out there with the necessary tools for creative opportunities that were previously unavailable.


Yes. Its not an Xbox. Its not a PS3. Its not a Wii. Its not made by a big company. It is very much "its own thing". And it is crowdfunded from the getgo...

That's what I like about Ouya.

Yes, maybe Tegra 3 isn't the most powerful hardware out there.

But if the console is cheap (around 100 - 150 Dollars) and games for it are cheap (5 - 20 Dollars) I can see it having a real chance in the markt.


Maybe the best thing about Ouya is that it is "open", like some other Android devices.

You don't have to hack, root, or jailbreak it to get your games & apps onto it.


I think Ouya has a chance in the market. I hope it sells OK, so we have a game console that is different from Wii, Xbox and PS3.

To me, having the choice of buying an open Android game console creates real "choice" in the market.
 
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by DePaint: Exactly. If people spend good money on Android phones & tablets - and they do -, why wouldn't they buy an Android console for the living room?

Especially if it doesn't cost much & lets you play your favorite Android games on a 32"- 55" HD TV.



I am really interested in hearing how ouya is in any way or shape appealing to the phone/tablet market. It is like you live in some fantasy land your posts couldn't be any more out of touch with reality if you tried.

People buy phones and tablets because:

a) to make phone calls!
b) portable
c) a LOT of apps that do things other than games.

Nobody ever bought a iphone to just play angry birds on it. So I am not sure how ouya is appealing to anyone in that regard unless you really like playing crappy android touchscreen games on your tv with a controller that the games are not designed for.

The main selling point of ouya is that it is "hackable out of the box" oh hell yes I am sure that the devs will loooove developing for a console that has nothing in the way of stopping piracy instead encourages it.

The money they raised so far is not even chump change. This is console manufacturing, they do not have a big order to get discounts from manufacturers. nobody is going to stop their production line to make ouyas when they can be making iphones and ipads. Once again the 5 million they raised wont cover costs let alone things like marketing (they don't even have a website) The fact that they asked 900k for the original kickstarter target is proof enough that these guys don't have the slightest clue to what they are doing. And the interviews they gave pretty much cements this because the best answer they can come up with is "no, really, we can do this" to any criticism.

Lastly there is no working sample unit. All they have is some crappy cg render and a mockup ui video. If you think you will recieve this console by next march I have a bridge to sell you.
 
  08 August 2012
Sheep, I can respect a critical opinion (it's important to balance ambition and keep things within a realistic scope) but your long negative rant is based on nothing other than your opinion. If you took the time to do some research and follow the project more closely, you'd realize most of your concerns have been addressed (not all, I'll admit)

  • The comparison DePaint made was that people enjoy spending money on gadgets, not comparing it to a phone. Stop comparing it to a phone, it's not a phone.
  • 40k units means people DO want it, you're just being pessimistic
  • The console is not meant to be a glorified Angry Birds machine. There are plenty of people already planning to make some wicked console games for it.
  • They do have a working prototype with all of the listed hardware. They have one of the designers of the Kindle hardware/software on their team, he's not an idiot and knows how to get a physical product from prototype to launch.
  • The main selling point is everything a niche market of gamers have been asking for, a console with few restrictions and easy entry for developers. Do not mistake that for lacking security, they have detailed some of their security measures already and most developers know that people will pirate their games anyways no matter what you do. Developing a game for this thing is the exact same as an Android phone, which has rampant piracy. You don't see people shying away from it though.
  • They have external funding, the 900k campaign was only there to gauge public interest. Think of it like a cheap, quick way to test if your concept has a market to prove to investors it's worth investing.
  • This ISN'T an expensive console. To get this thing to manufacturing takes about 3-4 months (source is someone who deals with gadget manufacturing, can't remember the name)
  • Short answers don't necessarily mean they don't have one. It could easily mean they are not prepared to give an answer until they are 100% sure the chosen path is the one they are going down. It's a smart business decision to keep things from the public until you are prepared.
  • It's been a grand total of 23 DAYS since it was announced as just an "idea". Perhaps you should relax a little bit? They're on record numerous times saying they are still figuring things out.

I'm not saying it's 100% for sure going to go to plan, but holy shit, relax a little bit with the un-necessary hatred against this thing. If you don't think it's a good idea, fine, but do some research first.

Originally Posted by SheepFactory: I am really interested in hearing how ouya is in any way or shape appealing to the phone/tablet market. It is like you live in some fantasy land your posts couldn't be any more out of touch with reality if you tried.

I'd also like to say, starting your argument like that is incredibly rude, just because someone thinks differently from you doesn't mean they are out of touch with reality.
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Last edited by grantmoore3d : 08 August 2012 at 05:33 PM. Reason: Spelling and grammar
 
  08 August 2012
Originally Posted by SheepFactory: I am really interested in hearing how ouya is in any way or shape appealing to the phone/tablet market. It is like you live in some fantasy land your posts couldn't be any more out of touch with reality if you tried.

People buy phones and tablets because:

a) to make phone calls!
b) portable
c) a LOT of apps that do things other than games.

Nobody ever bought a iphone to just play angry birds on it. So I am not sure how ouya is appealing to anyone in that regard unless you really like playing crappy android touchscreen games on your tv with a controller that the games are not designed for.

The main selling point of ouya is that it is "hackable out of the box" oh hell yes I am sure that the devs will loooove developing for a console that has nothing in the way of stopping piracy instead encourages it.

The money they raised so far is not even chump change. This is console manufacturing, they do not have a big order to get discounts from manufacturers. nobody is going to stop their production line to make ouyas when they can be making iphones and ipads. Once again the 5 million they raised wont cover costs let alone things like marketing (they don't even have a website) The fact that they asked 900k for the original kickstarter target is proof enough that these guys don't have the slightest clue to what they are doing. And the interviews they gave pretty much cements this because the best answer they can come up with is "no, really, we can do this" to any criticism.

Lastly there is no working sample unit. All they have is some crappy cg render and a mockup ui video. If you think you will recieve this console by next march I have a bridge to sell you.


Yeah! F-em! Who do they think they are for trying something new without any major experience! Doesn't everyone know things like these are only reserved for companies with money and real experience! 23 days into development and they haven't worked things out!? how dare they! I hope they loose all their chump change, I mean millions.. and everyone cries while I laugh at their naive attempts at any kind of creative endeavor! Buahahhahahahh!

Why is it that every time I read your post it sounds like that in my head? maybe you're being a little too negative?
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  08 August 2012
I'm with Ali. It's not negative, it's realistic. What's annoying is when a few people come along and basically promise the impossible, naysayers start to naysay, then other people come along and say "anything's possible - just give it a chance." But that is not always true. As a former industrial designer and current game artist, I find their goal to be fanciful at best.

There's a long history of people who thought they could do it better, but had no real chance of succeeding. Everyone loves a David & Goliath story, but in most, if not every, case, Goliath typically wins. What was the name of that 3rd party xbox controller, Dragon-something, from a while back? It was nothing but a fancy ergo housing with buttons - that's all! And they were plagued with design, QA, and manufacturing problems up the wazoo. It didn't help that the maker was a huckster, but still, this console is slightly more complicated than that. Hell, even the 3DS and Vita failed, and those had the best engineers in the world, the most devs on board, and hundreds of millions of dollars behind them.

I'll admit that there may be a very small niche group that would use this console, but it goes against everything the market and devs are doing right now. It's simply not profitable for anyone to develop for a market that small, especially in this economy. While many find that "going against the grain" to be an appealing quality, it doesn't often work in the real world.
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