Windows 8

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  10 October 2013
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Originally Posted by BrainFreeze: To anyone considering it, just buy Windows 8 and give it a try for yourself. Or get a virtual image of it to try. Opinions posted in this thread are very subjective and moot.


I did download the Window 8 RTM when it was released. Didn't like it. It was the reason that many blogs and IT portal have mentioned.

In short, there is a reason why Microsoft end up releasing 8.1.

I haven't tried 8.1 yet (maybe I will in a few days) - the iso already available.

However, I do have a friend (a professional DBA) that hated Windows 8 metro interface, or even the other interface. So he installed a software that made it look like Windows 7 (i forgot what it was, but the start button have a shell logo).

Since the main topic title said Windows 8 and not Windows 8.1, I guess my friend and I both hated it, at least the vanilla version of it.

edit:

googling around, I think this is the tool...

http://www.pcworld.com/article/2054...-8-1-didnt.html

Last edited by fablefox : 10 October 2013 at 12:57 PM.
 
  10 October 2013
The new photo and camera apps are pretty good. They're basically just missing unsharp mask and resize.
And there are a few really good 3rd party apps like FL Studio groove and Music Maker Jam. Never mind the fact that it's still Windows and you can pretty much run just about any software that exists anyway.
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  10 October 2013
Originally Posted by Magnus3D: A colleague of mine who runs one of the latest Mac's updated his Mac to whatever the latest version of OSX is called, the update failed and he was forced to to a clean installation and reinstall all of his software again. No backupsystem helped him so no, just because you run OSX you are not safe from reinstallation of your system no matter what Apple claims.

/ Magnus


the difference is that backup and restore is easy on OS X so even if an OS install flakes out, which I have never seen except on a Hackintosh, you can do a variety of restore types with Time Machine. Windows' backup and restore is not very good and there are two types of backup system in Windows 8. It's kind of a mess. Your friend isn't very smart not to have a backup while doing a system update. Anyway, I'll leave it at that but you picked one thing that OS X is exceptional at and hands down better at than Windows or Linux: update, restore and backup. There aren't widespread tales of update failures like with Windows 8.1

and if you are claiming that Apple systems are just as prone to failure as Windows machines, you might want to rethink that. Microsoft has a very difficult job: making a stable OS for an infinite variety of hardware configs. Apple's job is relatively easy comparatively, so if you're saying that Apple is as bad as Microsoft while having a relative handful of hardware to test and maintain, then you're saying they are possibly the worst OS developer there has ever been because they can't even get that small hardware/software combo right. Anyway, consumer satisfaction, reviews and common sense say you're wrong.

Anyway, I tested Windows 8.1 with my recent review of VMWare Fusion 6 and Parallels Desktop 9 and I'll be leaving my gaming rig and VMs on Windows 7. Even with Start8, it's annoying as hell to use.

Last edited by cgbeige : 10 October 2013 at 07:02 PM.
 
  10 October 2013
I'm sorry to have to dissapoint you cgbeige but you are wrong, my friend he tried to use the backupsystem of OSX to restore his system back to a previously working version but it just did not work! is that so difficult to understand that even Mac can fail at the simplest of tasks.

He had no other choice but to do a complete reinstallation of his system and all applications. No Applemagic would help him with that.

/ Magnus
 
  10 October 2013
I followed SheepFactory's suggestions (Thanks BTW) and I must say that this plus the update 8.1 is a pretty good step in the right direction. I still think they need to work on the design and interaction paradigms further, but sofar I love it.

What is really great is setting your desktop as background in Metro. It takes away from that "another room" effect which can be a bit disorienting.
 
  10 October 2013
Overall I think Windows 8.1 is quite good. It's more stable than v8 and some annoying things like the corners can be turned off, etc.

But, if you use 3ds Max (only occurred with it) and have an old Wacom Bamboo tablet, you'll get in trouble with using Max Right+Click menus. There's slow down, some things you have to select with the middle button because the pen point don't click, etc.

I asked Wacom about it and they told be to my a new tablet (great customer service, since my tablet is perfect new). I take care of my things.

In Windows 7 you can disable the TabletPC and delete the driver from the computer. That makes the reaction to the pen faster and better. I haven't found a solution for that on Windows 8.1.

Other than that, all good. In other software, like Maya, Photoshop or AfterFX, the Right+Click button problem don't occur.
 
  10 October 2013
Now that I've had a few weeks to sit with v8.1 I just want to weigh in with a few new points.

Speed-wise, with the same hardware and apps, 8.1 actually lags behind by a hair. It really shouldn't especially with new version specific drivers, but it kinda does. The lag in performance isn't crippling, but it definitely is noticeable in places. I had been using v8 for nearly a year and the performance was definitely smoother. Mind you, I don't have an old PC. I have a newer 6-core i7 with a heap of RAM and such. The practical speed across point releases should be the same. For me, at least, it isn't. Not quite.

Second, v8.1 definitely should've spent more time in testing before going gold. Why? Where to start?

1. A few of the stock Metro apps break too easily. Weather, for example, loads up to a blank blue screen and just stays there. Uninstalling the app and reinstalling it from the store works... IF the store decides that it wants to install the app without reporting an error. I've since switched to The Weather Channel's app over MS' version.

2. Watch that tricky Windows Firewall. If, for some reason, you have to disable it, maybe in favor of a 3rd party solution, don't think that it's 100% off. For a few apps here & there, I have to use port forwarding in my router. Prior to 8.1, that's never been a problem. With 8.1. I found that, with the Windows Firewall disabled and off, my ports were STILL getting blocked off. At first, I thought that it was Comodo6. It wasn't. After banging my head for a while, I realized that the supposedly disabled Windows Firewall wasn't as neutered as I had previously thought. Though disabled, it was still blocking the ports I had just opened. Not cool. I had to reenable the MS firewall, create new rules to let traffic pass through those ports, and everything was cool again. It definitely wasn't like this in v8.0. Turning off the bundled firewall actually turned it off. For realsies.

3. v8.0 was rock solid. Not a single crash in the year I had been using it. In the 2 weeks I've been using v8.1, I've already gotten a few of these:



The dreaded, and now uninformative, BSOD has returned for me. Nope. My hardware isn't faulty. I checked. My drivers are cool. No damage to my HDD file structure either. Windows 8.1 is suddenly becoming schizo on me. At first, I thought that it was because I went for an upgrade on a fully loaded machine. NOPE! I did a fresh install, no prior baggage, and these "lovely" new glitches still pop up at random times. I'm almost tempted on reverting to v8.

Workflow-wise, I'm mostly okay with v8.1. I just wish that newly installed apps would, by default, be added to the start page. Now, I have to pin them manually, which is more annoying than problematic.
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  10 October 2013
Originally Posted by SheepFactory: You are right OSX is just more secure an....oh wait

http://www.dailytech.com/Apples+OS+...rticle21097.htm

This happens pretty much yearly btw.

Everything you complain about is solved in a matter of minutes with free third party apps. I am not seeing this "You are dead the second your computer touches the internet!" tinfoil hat stuff either. Do you go on a warez/porn site the second you boot into a new os or something?


This guy is proffesional hacker. Any pro hacker can hack into any computer, given enough time. Saying he done if 5 secods is stupid. He clearly spent loads of time working on hacking macOS before he hacked into that computer for 5 seconds.
"Luring the user to a suspect site in Safari"
Tinfoil hat, really ? Was that warez/porn site you usually go to ?
Please skip this kind of arguments, don't want to waste my time on some sort of personal insulting competition... There is some new porn site I need to check out...

My main issue is with OS backup feature, being able to reinstall just the OS if any sort of trouble comes and clearly no third party application solves this.


Als
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VFX rule no. 387
# Just redo it!

 
  10 October 2013
Originally Posted by Als: My main issue is with OS backup feature, being able to reinstall just the OS if any sort of trouble comes and clearly no third party application solves this.

http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/4241/
 
  11 November 2013
Originally Posted by BrainFreeze: http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/4241/


Not the same thing.
http://windows.microsoft.com/en-us/...-a-system-image

Quote: you can't choose individual items to restore, and all of your current programs, system settings, and files are replaced with the contents of the system image


It doesn't fix your OS only, it is an IMAGE on that present day.


Als
__________________
"No Bucks, NO Buck Rogers!"

VFX rule no. 387
# Just redo it!

 
  11 November 2013
If you are really concerned about being able to quickly restore things if something goes wrong with your OS, creating an image is the easiest/fastest way to do so. In fact, I pre-install all the drivers and most used apps here and then create an image. If the image is restored I get all of those things back on my machine within minutes.

The bottom line is: there is an easy way to back up and restore your OS and it works.
 
  11 November 2013
a full disk image is not practical. You have things like Mail and other hourly changes that you will lose when restoring that. Windows needs something like Time Machine and OS X's system reinstall options. The combined options are so flexible that you can:

- reinstall your OS without having to kill applications in the process
- do a fresh install and only install users and settings, apps if you want to any hour that you've backed up until
- boot off the internet if you have no install disk and reinstall from there (Apple gives away the OS now so they don't care who owns it or not)
- restore after booting into your OS (you don't have to do it at system install time)
- Do a complete image/OS install onto a fresh disk (ghosting)
- Do selective restore of files from any hourly snapshot. You can keep both files if you want to avoid clobbering the old one. The backups are browsable as a filesystem too.
- Delete backups of specific files if you don't want to waste space.

It's not touchy about versions either - you can install OS X 10.9 and not have to worry that you've been backing up in 10.9.1 or something. I'm not selling OS X - I'm just saying that I have to use rsync on my Windows machine because its own backup tools suck. And I think people don't understand how painless OS and restores can be on other OSes. It also helps that Apple doesn't have a registry or installer/uninstaller system, which is probably why Windows has such a bad time with this. It's too difficult for it to disconnect applications from the system because it's like a hairy web of hard settings, not dynamically linked things.

Last edited by cgbeige : 11 November 2013 at 03:46 PM.
 
  11 November 2013
Originally Posted by cgbeige: a full disk image is not practical. You have things like Mail and other hourly changes that you will lose when restoring that. Windows needs something like Time Machine and OS X's system reinstall options. The combined options are so flexible that you can:

- reinstall your OS without having to kill applications in the process
- do a fresh install and only install users and settings, apps if you want to any hour that you've backed up until
- boot off the internet if you have no install disk and reinstall from there (Apple gives away the OS now so they don't care who owns it or not)
- restore after booting into your OS (you don't have to do it at system install time)
- Do a complete image/OS install onto a fresh disk (ghosting)
- Do selective restore of files from any hourly snapshot. You can keep both files if you want to avoid clobbering the old one. The backups are browsable as a filesystem too.
- Delete backups of specific files if you don't want to waste space.

It's not touchy about versions either - you can install OS X 10.9 and not have to worry that you've been backing up in 10.9.1 or something. I'm not selling OS X - I'm just saying that I have to use rsync on my Windows machine because its own backup tools suck. And I think people don't understand how painless OS and restores can be on other OSes. It also helps that Apple doesn't have a registry or installer/uninstaller system, which is probably why Windows has such a bad time with this. It's too difficult for it to disconnect applications from the system because it's like a hairy web of hard settings, not dynamically linked things.


Using an image is the way we do things in business. You don't lose any data if you separate your OS/Application drive/partition from your data drive/partition. never put all your eggs in the same basket.

Restoring my system without losing any data takes me 10 minutes flat...
 
  11 November 2013
Restoring OS without programs you mean ?
What happens with your programs ?
Not talking about data, but about programs.
Registry is imposible to back up, as well as OS because you can not MERGE things, just REINSTALL.
Restoring only OS is not the same as restoring drive image.


Als
__________________
"No Bucks, NO Buck Rogers!"

VFX rule no. 387
# Just redo it!

 
  11 November 2013
You don't have to get a full drive image, just create one when you installed Windows and all the important things like drivers and apps afresh.

Anyways, it works for me and it works flawlessly. Over the past 10 years or so I had to restore only 3-4 times, and lost maybe a grand total of 1-2 days on the process of settings things up again.

If this is too much I suppose you'd better stay with OSX then. I am not selling Windows, just stating what is practical for me and not just in theory. Comparing on the time spent updating software, for example, this is a non-issue.
 
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