Disturbing Uses of a 3D Printer

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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Srek: I think you underestimate the flexibility of these things. Even with the current diy printers you can already print several different materials simultanously, among them elastic material as well as very rigid and wear resistend stuff. Printing useable shoes is well within reach.
Cheers
Björn

Is that right? In my previous comments about 3D Printing Napsters I was thinking maybe 20-30 years down the road before it would be feasible. Even so, every instance of 3D printing I've looked into has been way more cost prohibitive than your typical mass production methods.

Originally Posted by Srek: John: This might not be the plattform for such a discussion, but maybe start thinking about why you can safely move in any city in Germany, France, UK, ... at any time without any worry to be a victim in a drive by shooting, robbery etc. , while in the US you can't.

The answer to this question is a very long complicated answer and it has very little to do with guns. It's not like gun ownership is so much more now than it was in the 50s. I figured I should check before making that statement and it's more or less unchanged. I could start making a list but in a system this big it's impossible to say why the US barely resembles itself anymore.

Edit:
Nope, anything I mention will sound like a blanket stereotype so there's no point. I have my suspicions but since there's no way to prove it I'll keep it to myself.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Srek: In germany a bad neighbourhood is where you find dealers, petty thieves, illegal prostitution etc.
Your chances of coming to bodily harm when just walking through are effectively zero. If you take part in the shady activities in those areas your risk of injury increases, your risk of death is still practically zero.
The difference is that a bad neighbourhood in europe isn't exactly the same as in the US.
One personal question. If you were invited to visit Berlin or Frankfurt, would you feel unprotected and in danger? You could not take any weapons with you and you would find it hard to obtain any kind of gun in europe. Would you still be willing to leave your hotel at night to go on a stroll through the city?
I did in London, Berlin, Frankfurt, Paris, Cologne, Amsterdam and others and at no point i was in any real danger or felt as if i were. I did not do this in LA and Miami. Where would you do it?


No, I would not feel unprotected and in danger visiting Europe. I don't feel unprotected and in danger here in the US, either. I don't carry a gun around with me all the time and I don't feel the need to do so. I sure wouldn't stay huddled in my hotel room. What would be the point of the travel expense and hassle if you didn't see the place you were visiting? That doesn't mean that I would wander around in some kind of fog and not pay some attention to what goes on around me. I would no more visit a seedy drug area in Europe than I would hang out in East LA on a Saturday night.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by wurger:
Leigh, if anyone waded into this thread it is you. You accuse me of stereotyping, yet every one of your posts in response to mine are full of stereotypes and generalizations. Not every US gun owner cowers in their home, guns clenched in sweaty hands, fearing some murderous perp is about to kick down their door. Or darts around running their errands while cringing in terror they are about to be assaulted.


Where have I stereotyped you? Please, tell me. I pointed out that you were stereotyping yourself, because you were.

Please point out where I said that "every American gun owner cowers in their home". Wait, I'll save you the trouble of finding it: I didn't say that. I didn't even imply that. I said that the average American is quite paranoid about crime and terrorism, much more so than on this side of the Atlantic. Because in my experience, they are. That's not resorting to stereotyping, that's based on my experience from actually living in the US. Because, unlike you, I don't make blanket statements about stuff I clearly have no personal experience of.

Don't come here, making huge, false generalisations, and then get uppity because people call you out on it.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Srek: One personal question. If you were invited to visit Berlin or Frankfurt, would you feel unprotected and in danger?
Lol, why would I be afraid of Euro's?
I kid, I kid
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  10 October 2012
Quote: After three hours reviewing EU gun regulations as well as laws in many European nations, I stand by my phobia comment, at least at a legislative level. European gun laws are even more restrictive then the laws are here in Calif, one of the most restrictive states in the US. I see a systemic fear of public gun ownership, both in certain population segments in the US and across the EU. I won't even get into the gun laws in the UK.

I didn't intend a thread hijack. I think the hysteria about people 3D printing guns in their basement is just that, hysteria.


You can actually legally own a .50cal Barret Sniper Rifle in the UK. Not so in california
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by WyattHarris: ...I could start making a list but in a system this big it's impossible to say why the US barely resembles itself anymore.


That's an interesting way to put it. What it says is there's a disconnect between what people think America is like, and what it's actually like. This goes for both citizens and non-Americans. I think we can point a pretty big finger at the media for helping foster this illusion.

When every newscast leads off with stories about gun violence, it presents a very disproportionate view of how much violence occurs in our neighborhoods and cities. Add to that the pervasiveness of our gun culture, it's practical history (the old west and the civil war) and it's current glorification and amplification by groups like the NRA (not judging, just saying), and you have a totem that's deeply embedded in our culture, and even our nature.

I've lived in neighborhoods where I didn't have a care about going out at night, and I've lived where I had a gun shoved in my back while I was mugged right in front of my apartment building. Would 3d printed guns have altered either of those scenarios? Not likely. But I don't think the issue here is people getting all militia-ed up with printed guns, but is more about the ease with which people will be able to make things like this in the near future. As someone pointed out, it's not likely to be very common at first, but the skill to do this could conceivably be as minimal as burning a CD is right now.

And for those saying a repeating-fire gun could not be made using this method, did everyone miss this link?
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  10 October 2012
Quote: I would no more visit a seedy drug area in Europe than I would hang out in East LA on a Saturday night.


You should try it sometime, I hear Amsterdam is quite nice this time of year, and because only the police carry guns it's also perfectly safe
 
  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by leigh: Where have I stereotyped you? Please, tell me. I pointed out that you were stereotyping yourself, because you were.

Please point out where I said that "every American gun owner cowers in their home". Wait, I'll save you the trouble of finding it: I didn't say that. I didn't even imply that. I said that the average American is quite paranoid about crime and terrorism, much more so than on this side of the Atlantic. Because in my experience, they are. That's not resorting to stereotyping, that's based on my experience from actually living in the US. Because, unlike you, I don't make blanket statements about stuff I clearly have no personal experience of.

Don't come here, making huge, false generalisations, and then get uppity because people call you out on it.


Based on my experience of living in the US for 50 years, I disagree with your conclusions.

I may not have lived in Europe, but I spent nearly three months traveling the continent after college, so I'm not completely ignorant of European culture.

You obviously have an opinion about me that I doubt I can change. This discussion has become an OT waste of thread space. Over.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by wurger: Based on my experience of living in the US for 50 years, I disagree with your conclusions.


I said that America is the most fearful place I have ever been to. How can you disagree with an opinion I have when it's not your personal view? You're essentially saying that you disagree with the fact that I've said the US is more paranoid than any other country I've been to. But you don't know where I've been, so how can you disagree?

Quote: I may not have lived in Europe, but I spent nearly three months traveling the continent after college, so I'm not completely ignorant of European culture.


Living somewhere and travelling there are two totally different things.

Quote: You obviously have an opinion about me that I doubt I can change. This discussion has become an OT waste of thread space. Over.


Except I don't have any opinion about you. Why are you taking this so personally?
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by WyattHarris: Is that right? In my previous comments about 3D Printing Napsters I was thinking maybe 20-30 years down the road before it would be feasible. Even so, every instance of 3D printing I've looked into has been way more cost prohibitive than your typical mass production methods.

I realy only meant useable, not very good
As for costs, this heavily depends on what you want. The more specific your requests are the less likely it is you get that item as a mass product. 3D printing is not the cure all, but it can provide individual items at fair costs.
I have already printed quite a few every day items using my reprap that i might have gotten at similar costs in a shop, but all the items i printed were to my own specs. Simple example, i was build a power supply for electronics and needed to mount the heavy transformer in a case i already got. Designing and printing a perfectly fitting mount was a matter of a bit over an hour, it would have cost me more time and money to order something that i would have needed to modify then. The other day i needed 35 simple handles, ordering them was prohibitively expensive. Designing one took 1/2 hour, fabricating the 35 handles took two nights of unattended printing.
Not everyone will be willing to do the design, but the number of open source hardware items you can simply download and print is growing pretty fast.
I think 3D printing will be the cause for quite a lot more users of 3D design applications. Not neccesarily in the next short time, but in about 5 years i think we will see that it will become a noticeable part of all stuff done in 3D.
Cheers
Björn
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Srek: I have already printed quite a few every day items using my reprap that i might have gotten at similar costs in a shop, but all the items i printed were to my own specs. Simple example, i was build a power supply for electronics and needed to mount the heavy transformer in a case i already got. Designing and printing a perfectly fitting mount was a matter of a bit over an hour, it would have cost me more time and money to order something that i would have needed to modify then. The other day i needed 35 simple handles, ordering them was prohibitively expensive. Designing one took 1/2 hour, fabricating the 35 handles took two nights of unattended printing.

Now that's what I'm talking about! Modern version of the local blacksmith.
Reminds me of firing up the ol' welding torch to make custom brackets and such.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Artbot: That's an interesting way to put it. What it says is there's a disconnect between what people think America is like, and what it's actually like. This goes for both citizens and non-Americans. I think we can point a pretty big finger at the media for helping foster this illusion.

I'm not talking about illusions or media smoke-in-mirrors.

Edit:
Nope, I said I wasn't and I'm not.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by Srek: ... The other day i needed 35 simple handles, ordering them was prohibitively expensive. Designing one took 1/2 hour, fabricating the 35 handles took two nights of unattended printing...


How durable are the items you print? Could the handles stand up to long term, heavy use, or are they just for the short term?
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by wurger: How durable are the items you print? Could the handles stand up to long term, heavy use, or are they just for the short term?


It depends on the materials, Shapeways has some materials at a lower detail that are quite durable.

Overall, 3D printing works great for the average object, the problems come up when you need something more detailed, or in a specific material function like metal or flexible materials.
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  10 October 2012
Originally Posted by wurger: How durable are the items you print? Could the handles stand up to long term, heavy use, or are they just for the short term?


It depends on the printer and material used.

There are 3D Printers that use ABS plastic-like materials which are seriously tough and durable.

I remember reading somewhere years ago that the U.S. Military used a 3D Printer to print new foot pedals for its B-52 bomber pilots, because the existing foot pedal design didn't perform well.

They took the 3D Printed foot pedals straight from the printer, and installed them in big-ass B-52 aircraft for actual active-mission use.

So yes, there are 3D printer materials that create objects almost as tough as ones made from solid ABS Plastic.
 
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