Now OPEN!!! Open Figure Drawing Workshop with zhuzhu and Rebecca Kimmel 004

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  09 September 2005
Talking

Dark3D,

Hey, this is a really cool approach! Great to see your work here...just a few comments now, will post more later.

Arctis,

Hey there! Hope you can join us. Nope, I'm Korean. But I've gotten all kinds of guesses.

PSR,

Very cool to see this! Just a quick peek for now...but very nice so far!

augustus,

Great to have you join us! Great work so far...more comments later.

~~
Great to see so much great stuff, guys!!

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
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  09 September 2005
Thanks for tips and comments everybody

so next update.
that face is still causing me problems, its better IMO but far from there yet .




--dave
 
  09 September 2005
Talking

Dave,

It's great to see your update! Thanks for posting.

I think the thing I am noticing is the difference in size of the two arms ~ his left arm is looking disproportionately large from his right, and from the rest of the body. I really like the rendering of the right arm, and wonder if it is at all possible to scale the size of the left? I know this can be difficult with charcoal. But as this is primarily an exercise in seeing, I think it is useful to point things out, even if they cannot necessarily easily be changed.

I think the top of the head does look better. What I would recommend doing is to also try a separate head study ~ just drawing the head, on the same size paper, so that it takes up about 3/4 of the page. This, I think, will enable you to concentrate on just those features, and with more precision due to the greater amount of space.

Keep going, making refinements specifically to his left arm. Your overall drawing ability is quite solid, and it just takes practice to get a new pose right. You're definitely on the right track!

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
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  09 September 2005
since this is only my second post here (on CGT), itll have to be moderated so itll show up long after its posted. anyway...

zhu - i cant help but think that you're cheating...i mean, its YOU! you BETTER be able to draw yourself well. j.k. two totally different styles you show in these, each equally awesome. cheers.

slux - the shape of his right (left side of the page) upper arm is off from the picture; the bulge should be closer to the shoulder than it is to the elbow. the bottom of the pecs of his chest are actually misaligned, his left pec (right side of the page) should be slightly lower than his right one. good job with the shading though, cant wait to see the rest; g'luck!

katea - really nice job with the pic. as for the expression, his right eye (left side of the page) is actually a little more open than you have it...changes the whole expression. we should see more of the black of his eye as well. really good job with the hair. coolness.

corvax - between the first and second stages you made his cheeks much wider...they should be more narrow, and his face more rectangular. the chin should be a little narrower, and the eyes and lips slightly smaller. the right side of his lip (left side of the page) should have more of an upward curve to it, following the shape of the face. keep at it dude, you're getting there...awaiting stage 3.

goliath - the thing i like most about your drawing is the expression, you seem to have gotten it down pretty well. the upper part of his forearms is a little small, try to widen it a little bit next time. also, the width of his bicep at the widest part is about equal to the width of his left (right side of the page) chest, so you may want to widen that a little. watch the shading around the neck and jaw area, cause it's easy for the head to appear detached if the contrast isnt right. keep working at it man, get it down richt; you can do it!

b2d - where's his underwear? good start to the piece, the colors seem like they match the values fairly well. very nice proportions; good lips too.

llynna - nice so far. on his right arm (left on the page), his bicep should jut out wider than the widest part of his shoulder, this will help create the illusion of depth as his arm is sticking forward away from his body...at the moment, it looks more like its hanging straight down and consequently is really short in proportion to the rest of his body. nice job with his left arm (right side of page); are you working more or are you done with it?

dark3d - i really like the values on his left (right side of the page) side; on the right, it looks like you just wanted to finish cause his arm looks kinda flat. if you decide to work on this more, i would say try to soften the shading on his right (left side of the page) arm and use the planes to determine your strokes; let your strokes show the roundness of the arm. nice to see you here; keep working hard.

psr - nice wip you have there, cant wait to see the finished product.

augustus - try to soften his jaw a little bit, make it slightly (but not too much) more round, and the transition from the jawline to the side of his face (on the right side of the page, his left jaw) should be a little higher than the lips, which would make his face slightly thinner and would help soften the jawline. after that, commence shading!


rebecca - thx dude, glad you like. my biggest weakness is shading at this point, and that picture had really dynamic lighting so i decided to try my hand at the pic, more for the shading practice than the figure practice, so i didnt draw the whole thing. yeah, its busy here, but when i get a shot ill be seeing you over in the shading and skulls section as well. if i draw some of the other poses from this, ill definitely post them up as well, and we'll see if i cant do a full one next time. thx for hosting these things dude, really awesome! good luck with work and life stuff, cause im sure you're crazy busy. or maybe just crazy.

moonlantern - thx dude. shading and lighting is actually my biggest weakness (i just said that, hehe) so it feels good to hear that. i tried to take my time with this to really get down the values and stuff. i have a ways to go, but ill get there if i keep working at it. very grateful for this invention called the internet, that i can have almost infinite reference shots at hand.

keep up the good work everybody; good luck with the draw!
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-A

The Book 2 3 4
The Jisyou
 
  09 September 2005
There is some good work on here already, I especially like Katea's and augustus's. I haven't ever participated in these workshops but since zhuzhu was kind enough to give some shots I thought I would join in. I don't get much time to draw these days and I am pretty terrible at digital work but I want to get better so I try and do what I can. I am using Painter IX (I don't own Photoshop) and I just try to use a different group of tools with each piece.

So here is my sketch. Did it this morning for a warmup. Painter IX, about 1 hour using mostly the acrylic brush. It is a little too soft all over but o.k. for a sketch I hope.

Thanks Rebecca and zhuzhu
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"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
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Last edited by KyleKane : 09 September 2005 at 04:49 PM.
 
  09 September 2005
Talking

Kyle,

It's great to have you participate in the Workshop! I'm thrilled you've decided to join in.

And the Workshops are absolutely for the purpose of beefing up whatever skill it is you most wish to hone...if for you, it's digital, then so be it!

Great start so far...I've no need to lecture you about anatomy, so I'm just going to watch as this progresses. I think you will be fine once you get comfortable with the program. I would highly recommend looking into getting a copy of Photoshop ~ surely ACCD can give you a discount of some sort? Painter is great, but Photoshop is really necessary for certain types of operations.

Keep going, I'm looking forward to seeing where this goes!

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
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  09 September 2005
Hi Rebecca,

I think I can get photoshop at ACCD for about $300. It will have to wait for a few months as bills have piled up a little.

This brings up a question I have had since first picking up the stylus a few months ago:

Since the last time I used Photoshop was 1996, I don't really understand the differences between Painter and Photoshop other that Painter is billed as an "image creation" package while Photoshop is called an "image modification" program. If you have any time, would you be able to tell me the things that make Photoshop different than Painter. I am mostly interested in the painting side of Photoshop as I don't do any photo work. I spoke with Craig Mullins once about a year ago on his choice of programs and he said that he used both a lot but I didn't get the "why" out of him. Ryan Church is back in LA and I ran into him at Comic Con. He told me he actually really likes the feel of Painter in comparison with Photoshop but also uses both together on his images usually. Again, I don't know the "why." I would love to know why it would be good to have both Photoshop and Painter used in creating a single image. What does one do better than the other? I have heard Painters brush engine is better but I don't even know what that means. I will probably hold off on getting Photoshop until I understand why I need to learn it in conjunction with Painter, since I am having enough trouble learning Painter alone right now.

Any advice?
__________________
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
~ Confucius

Last edited by KyleKane : 09 September 2005 at 05:11 PM.
 
  09 September 2005
Talking

Kyle,

It's funny, because you and I are in opposite boats. I don't use Painter (I've played with it, but don't own it) but really enjoy 'painting' with Photoshop.

From what I understand, I think that Photoshop is really good for getting really tiny details and for refining things to the nth degree. You cannot 'mix' paints in the same way as you can in Painter, however. Painter is for just that ~ painting ~ while the architects of Photoshop probably never meant for it to be primarily used as a painting program per se. It's marketed use is primarily as a Photo manipulation package ~ hence it's name ~ and the brushes and such are geared toward digitally retouching photographs.

In an artist's hands, however, Photoshop is a powerful painting tool. You won't, however, get the same brush~strokey effects that you can get in Painter ~ however, you can get a textural feel to work by using Photoshop's various brush sets and by making your own custom brushes (zhuzhu is an expert at this ~ see his Watercolor in Digital Tutorial). You can also use textures in layers and use Blending Modes to get a Texture~y effect. It's the kind of thing you might see used in a Matt Mahurin (remember him?) or Dave McKean type of Illustration. Photoshop is additionally great for combining Photo or other source material with your own paintings.

Frequently, I've taken photographs of or scanned some of my old, terrible oil paintings, and completely reworked them in Photoshop, using the brushes and various image manipulation tools to make adjustments and to paint. It just takes a bit of time to get used to, but there are zillions of Photoshop tutorials out there on the web ~ and there is a Forum here on CGTalk for Photoshop, so you might wish to nose about there.

Feel free to ask any questions of our members here if you have specific questions. I'm sure they would be happy to help.

EDIT: Additionally, Samanthie and I did Tutorials from the Photoshop paintings we did for OFDW 002:

TUTORIAL - Digital Figure Painting - by Samanthie

TUTORIAL - Digital Figurative Painting from OFDW - by Rebeccak

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
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www.korpus-la.com
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Last edited by Rebeccak : 09 September 2005 at 05:28 PM.
 
  09 September 2005
Many, many thanks, Rebecca. I will go hunting for tutorials later today. I have a lynda.com membership so I may try out some of the photoshop tutorials she has there to learn more.

Talk to you soon,

11th
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"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step."
~ Confucius
 
  09 September 2005
Talking

Kyle,

No problem. You can also ask the Lynda herself, lol! The two tutorials I linked above are not about using Photoshop per se, but just about two different approaches to a painting ~ as you know, there's generally no 'wrong' way to go about things, just suggestions and approaches.

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
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www.korpus-la.com
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Downtown Los Angeles






 
  09 September 2005
Talking

I don't know how helpful this will be, but I wanted to post something which shows just the general axes of things and how to kind of look at the figure and analyze it in a certain way. So here goes.

Note the central axis of the face, and how the perpendicular axes of the brow, eyes, nose, lips, chin, and ears are all parallel to one another.

Note that the eyes fall in about the middle of the face.

Also note the central axis of the body and how the pit of the neck is the hub for the axes of the clavicles.

For the arms, I am just breaking these down into simple directional planes. It is also best to find the narrowest points of the arms and to draw these when you are first beginning to get a sense of their minimum width.

The oval represents the mass of the torso and can be drawn to give an overall sense of the torso's mass.




Hope this is useful.

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
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Last edited by Rebeccak : 09 September 2005 at 05:55 PM.
 
  09 September 2005
*sigh* back in photoshop. I just needed a brake from the other drawing, I'm getting a little frustrated whit it, the next update on that one will probably be a independent face study as suggested by Rebeccak and we'll see if that helps me any further.
about 20 minutes of work.
its also a wip.


 
  09 September 2005
Talking

Corvax,

I think your overall sense of proportion is quite good. I think, however, the mass of the head is a bit off, and I think looking at a picture of the skull might help to clarify things:

CLICK HERE FOR SKULL REFERENCE

Note how the eyes (or rather, sockets) fall in about the middle of the face in the human skull/face.

Right now, the head which you have sketched in does not have enough mass at the back and top of the skull. See how high you have the ear? Take a look at the position of your own ear in the mirror, and note its position. It is not that close to the top of the skull.

Your values are looking really good here! Make sure not to go too light too quickly. Instead, build those subtle planes of the face and body with subtle gradations of gray, reserving your lightest lights only for those select areas with the most highlights.

Keep working, you are doing a great job ~ and I look forward to seeing your head study, as well!

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
__________________

Korpus School of Art + Gallery
Website:
www.korpus-la.com
Facebook Page | Blog
korpus.info@gmail.com
Downtown Los Angeles






 
  09 September 2005
It's great to see all the different styles of work coming through.

Great start augustus. I love the clear and confident explanation of form, shown in your drawing.

11th Door. I really like the way your drawing conveys a really solid, impression. As though it were physically modelled.

Corvax. Keep going, don't get disheartened.

A really good tip, when you are trying to work things out. Is to do a tracing, from your reference, of the bit you are getting wrong. Then place the tracing over your drawing to see the difference. Things will become much clearer.

More WIP:



Building up detail using smaller brush strokes, blending with the smudge tool, while trying to follow the contours with the brush marks. At the same time resolve the background, (now on a separate layer), a little more.



Duplicated the figure layer. And using the mask made earlier, applied Gaussian blur to the figure to quickly blend all the brushstrokes. Change the layers opacity to mix with the unblurred figure layer. Merge and begin to bring back details selectively.
 
  09 September 2005
Talking

PSR,

Fabulous to see your working method and explanation! It's looking great so far, and you clearly know what you are doing...so I will just sit back and watch as your progress unfolds.

Very sculptural~looking ~ great job so far, looking forward to your continued progress!

Cheers,

~Rebeccak
__________________

Korpus School of Art + Gallery
Website:
www.korpus-la.com
Facebook Page | Blog
korpus.info@gmail.com
Downtown Los Angeles






 
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