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  12 December 2009
Originally Posted by MagicEgger: After that we hope to be closer a lot..



I hope so Tomas. I would love to see EIAS being talked about in happy, positive terms. Not words of worry, fear, and uncertainty.
 
  12 December 2009
Originally Posted by plsyvjeucxfw: I hope so Tomas. I would love to see EIAS being talked about in happy, positive terms. Not words of worry, fear, and uncertainty.

Second that Kurt.
The new tag line will be

OiДа
 
  12 December 2009
Originally Posted by Vizfizz: The biggest challenge Tomas and the Igors will have will be spreading the word. EI was never really known for its wonderful marketing strategies and if Tomas and the Igors are not careful, they'll fall back into that pattern too. Hopefully they've learned from past mistakes and they'll cut the "lack of communication" issue out of EI's history once they take charge.


"Render Fast - Retire Early" was a great advertising campaign. I don't think that Electric Image has any significant advertising campaign any longer. This is a shame. As someone who's been in the advertising field for twenty or so years (and used EIAS for nearly that long), I think they really need to get the EIAS name out there for the newbies who are just getting into the field. If they're primarily going to be THE RENDERER of the industry, they need to be able to import AND export nearly any format. When you look at the campaigns and promotions that Autodesk features and how they are reaching newcomers, whatever your feelings about the company, they are very successful.
__________________
Reginald Thomas Jr.

"Impressive. Most impressive." -- Darth Vader

www.thomascreativestudio.com
 
  12 December 2009
Well..that's part of the problem. Niche render engines are no longer a really viable market solution in today's CG environment. With Autodesk in control, render engines must find a way to work within their pipeline and the pipelines of those studies who use their products. (which is pretty much everywhere) Camera is too dependent on the Fact file format. Unless that can be changed, you'll never see Camera penetrate very far.

Now there are examples of "new" renderers gaining some attention. Mach Studio Pro for example uses a hardware render engine. Its completely foreign but brings its rendering capabilities to the Autodesk world through the tools Autodesk integrated into its product line. Namely its geometry caching system.

EIAS can make a name for itself in a couple of different ways if these things are considered:

1. Enhance Animator to the point that it becomes competitive again as an animation application. People will choose EIAS if it offers strong animation features. Putting rendering first (in EI's case) is putting the cart before the horse.

2. Implement FBX export out of Animator to complete the FBX data I/O paradigm.

3. Introduce compatibility with Autodesk's XML geometry caching system to bring deforming geometry into Animator from other applications.

4. Create new novel applications (ala Tesla/EIM and others) that can tap into Camera as a rendering engine. Thus these new applications can help promote Camera's capabilities.

5. Write a new Transporter application that is current and flawless that makes model exchange a breeze.
__________________
Brian J. Pohl

Previsualization Society - Founder / Secretary
Independent - Sr. Previs & Layout Supervisor

Last edited by Vizfizz : 12 December 2009 at 05:05 PM.
 
  12 December 2009
Originally Posted by Vizfizz: ....Create new novel applications (ala Tesla/EIM and others) that can tap into Camera as a rendering engine. Thus these new applications can help promote Camera's capabilities.
I think I have mentioned this before but they really should buy Silo from Nevercenter since they apparently has lost interest in developing it. That would give EITG powerful modelling tools and sculpting abilities in an instance instead of developing something new, which so far has taken ages with little to show for it. And that alone would bring EITG some much needed puclicity.....and a lot of good will from the Silo user base
 
  12 December 2009
Originally Posted by Vizfizz: Well..that's part of the problem. Niche render engines are no longer a really viable market solution in today's CG environment. With Autodesk in control, render engines must find a way to work within their pipeline and the pipelines of those studies who use their products. (which is pretty much everywhere) Camera is too dependent on the Fact file format. Unless that can be changed, you'll never see Camera penetrate very far.

Now there are examples of "new" renderers gaining some attention. Mach Studio Pro for example uses a hardware render engine. Its completely foreign but brings its rendering capabilities to the Autodesk world through the tools Autodesk integrated into its product line. Namely its geometry caching system.

EIAS can make a name for itself in a couple of different ways if these things are considered:

1. Enhance Animator to the point that it becomes competitive again as an animation application. People will choose EIAS if it offers strong animation features. Putting rendering first (in EI's case) is putting the cart before the horse.

2. Implement FBX export out of Animator to complete the FBX data I/O paradigm.

3. Introduce compatibility with Autodesk's XML geometry caching system to bring deforming geometry into Animator from other applications.

4. Create new novel applications (ala Tesla/EIM and others) that can tap into Camera as a rendering engine. Thus these new applications can help promote Camera's capabilities.

5. Write a new Transporter application that is current and flawless that makes model exchange a breeze.


Brian, I hope EITG is listening, because advice this good usually doesn't come for free. You either pay for it with mistakes or you have to pay for a good marketing expert.

I believe Animator can only become more competitive as an animation product by offering better previews, better texturing options and better CA tools (among other things).

A new transporter would be excellent if it can really and truly work. I almost think it should either be integrated with Animator seamlessly or a true, full-fledged input/output manipulator, perhaps with a UV editor included. If they had such a product, it would probably be valuable to non-EIAS users as well.
__________________
Reginald Thomas Jr.

"Impressive. Most impressive." -- Darth Vader

www.thomascreativestudio.com
 
  12 December 2009
Originally Posted by Veehoy: I think I have mentioned this before but they really should buy Silo from Nevercenter since they apparently has lost interest in developing it. That would give EITG powerful modelling tools and sculpting abilities in an instance instead of developing something new, which so far has taken ages with little to show for it. And that alone would bring EITG some much needed puclicity.....and a lot of good will from the Silo user base


While it would be nice to obtain the user base of Nevercenter, the reality is EITG has enough code base from EIM to pump out more than one application. Create an industrial product that focuses on Nurbs and extreme accuracy to appeal to the Rhino/CAD/Architectural crowd and then create a product based off SDS/Polys for the animation crowd. (ala Modo approach).

Either route is going to cost money.
__________________
Brian J. Pohl

Previsualization Society - Founder / Secretary
Independent - Sr. Previs & Layout Supervisor
 
  12 December 2009
Originally Posted by Veehoy: I think I have mentioned this before but they really should buy Silo from Nevercenter since they apparently has lost interest in developing it. That would give EITG powerful modelling tools and sculpting abilities in an instance instead of developing something new, which so far has taken ages with little to show for it. And that alone would bring EITG some much needed puclicity.....and a lot of good will from the Silo user base


Buying Silo would be an excellent idea. It is a really great tool and so flexible. The simplicity of it is the key. It is also really friendly to use.
__________________
Reginald Thomas Jr.

"Impressive. Most impressive." -- Darth Vader

www.thomascreativestudio.com
 
  12 December 2009
Originally Posted by redcode: Brian, I hope EITG is listening, because advice this good usually doesn't come for free. You either pay for it with mistakes or you have to pay for a good marketing expert.


Well you might as well stop there....because the Igors have made their opinions known about my ideas. Its not very positive. lol

Camera by itself is a dead end unless EITG and the Igors can open it and allow licensing for new developers otherwise Camera's only access point to the rest of the world remains an uncompetitive Animator. The only other avenue (other than licensing Camera) is to re-embrace the "ANIMATION SYSTEM" in EIAS. All we have to do is look at the migration of users away from EIAS to prove that a "rendering" only approach to EIAS doesn't work. People love Camera's output, but its not enough to keep them here. It never has been.
__________________
Brian J. Pohl

Previsualization Society - Founder / Secretary
Independent - Sr. Previs & Layout Supervisor
 
  12 December 2009
So Brian,

Do you really think EI would develop multiple modeling apps ?

Also, if EIAS is now to be run by Tomas and the Igors would they have access to any of the (tesla) technology or would they be on their own?

Like several others here have said I would love to see a Silo integration or a similar SD style modeler inside EIAS . I also know that there are lots of technical issues with this.

With the exception of their Scene Editor in Silo which is really funky the rest of the application is great. I'm using Silo these days for almost everything.

I occasionally fall back to EIM for a few things now and then. I still love EIM's knives, and array tools, scene editor and the occasional boolean. The biggest weakness for EIM was its inability to edit existing geometry and the fact that it was not integrated into EIAS.

Bill
 
  12 December 2009
For some odd reason Steve Jobs return to Apple comes to mind. Their legal deal to acquire NEXT was almost a no go and yet Apple survived after they bought NEXT. With my friend we joke that if Apple bought of EI we would either have no debates or, EI would be discontinued after 5 years a-la Shake.
 
  12 December 2009
Will,

EITG (Brad) has no intention of getting out of the game as far as I know. However, he does need to know where to focus his energies. What's evolved out of the current EITG situation is a certain amount of disconnect between parent company and the developers who supply code to the application for new upgrades.

This disconnect has grown out of proportion over the years as more and more of a dependency has developed between developer and parent company. Problems arise when the developers and parent company come to an impasse regarding the future of the application or the parent company's direction. We've seen issues with Ramjac and the Igors over certain things...so Brad was forced to make a decision. What is the best way to continue providing EIAS users with a future? By re-writing the terms of the deal. We have to face the fact that finding new developers for Animator/Camera would likely be expensive and very difficult to find given the program's legacy code. Going that route would have likely over-taxed EITG financially...so there was little choice.

I do not know all the details of the agreement regarding the future of EIAS. But from what I've gathered (generally), is the control of Animator will be handed off to Tomas and the Igors for future development at their own speed and cost. Camera will likely fall into some sort of joint agreement between the two companies and all remaining EIM/Tesla/Amorphium modeling code will fall to Brad. That's about all I know. Its the same position I've revealed before.

Such an arrangement isn't such a bad idea in the grand scheme of things. It should provide the Igors new incentive to augment Animator because now their earnings are dependent on it rather than just collecting a paycheck from Brad. Secondly, Brad no longer needs to divide his cash flow into so many different directions. Focus can now be applied to developing new products. Finally relationships with Ramjac can hopefully be restored.

What will be the result of this division? Difficult to say. As long as Camera remains the unifying force between the two camps, we should be able to see two distinct products emerge from the dust. Hopefully one will be an enhanced Animator (preferably with geometry generation and vertex manipulation capabilities) and the second being Tesla. (A product who's emphasis is on high end modeling).

Ultimately... I see the two camps starting on two different sides of the spectrum and moving towards each other in functionality and capabilities. I think communication will remain in place and the air of cooperation will continue. If not, well I'm sure the nature of the agreement will protect each party and they'll find a way to go their separate ways. Right now, its just too early to determine that.
__________________
Brian J. Pohl

Previsualization Society - Founder / Secretary
Independent - Sr. Previs & Layout Supervisor
 
  12 December 2009
EDIT: redundant post.

Any Tesla/EIM news, at that?
 
  12 December 2009
Mmmm..., vertex manipulation capabilities...(perhaps even animatable?)
__________________
Reginald Thomas Jr.

"Impressive. Most impressive." -- Darth Vader

www.thomascreativestudio.com
 
  12 December 2009
Many great ideas, i allways agree with vizfizz about the roadmap. Hope EiAS pay some atention. The idea of purchasing SILO (i don´t know if that is possible, but just dreaming a little) is interesting. It seems pretty dead and is a great SS modeler and has an interesting userbase that allways mourn for a renderer. My be a way to expand the EiAS userbase...
Hope for the best in the Thomas and Igors colective hands.
FelixCat
 
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