EIAS into Blender

Become a member of the CGSociety

Connect, Share, and Learn with our Large Growing CG Art Community. It's Free!

THREAD CLOSED
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  11 November 2009
@scott...i've used the old blender on several projects that are paid, and more that are personal. With all due respect, I think your perspective is more past-centric on this particular matter. Paradigms shift all the time. Considering the addition of smoke/volumetric rendering to the fluids, soft/rigid body dynamics, and particle systems and the enhanced and customizable UI, I think the paradigm has shifted. As someone who has been using EIAS since '02 it would be hard to imagine paying $8000 for Maya to get the functionality that EIAS lacks when I can download Blender for free...Sure maya has more depth in a lot of it's tools, but my one man show doesn't get the kind of jobs that require them. And last time I looked I don't see EIAS based shops getting those jobs either...or EIAS skills being a requirement for employment in other shops. With the demand for 3D growing or atleast not deminishing in the future, there are a whole lot of studios yet-to-be that will be taking a serious look at blender.

But that's only my perspective...
 
  11 November 2009
Actually, that's what I meant to imply but probably didn't get around to saying very well in the post. As a 1-man shop I still use EI too, and have played around with Blender for years (though never actually used it all the way through finish on anything.)

But 1-person studios obviously aren't enough to keep EI afloat, or it wouldn't be in the position we see it in right now. They need to get a foothold back in the places they used to have, the ones that buy multiple seats of the software. They are the ones who've gone over to Maya and Cinema in droves.

So to revisit what I was saying about EI losing sales to Blender, in the context of the small-time operation I just don't see anyone actually dropping EI completely to switch over. The nature of being a small studio requires me to have more tools, if anything.

Still just my opinion though - and an opinion heavily biased towards what I do most, which is broadcast and theatrical motion graphics, so take for what its worth.


Originally Posted by monday1313: ...my one man show doesn't get the kind of jobs that require them...
 
  11 November 2009
ahhh...I misunderstood...yeah, as far as catching up with the big guys...hmmm...I actually don't see that happening...I don't know that we need another big player anyways...If EIAS becomes too competitive with autodesk..autodesk will just buy it...then we'll have to pay yearly fees...who wants that? I don't think EIAS has the resources to overcome all the barriers to entry of that space anyways.

I say go the other route. become a low-cost finishing app for people who use blender(and there are more than any of us might think). They would be more likely to buy an $800 app that they can combine with a free app and get 90% of the tools that come with the $8000 app, than actually pay $8000 (plus yearly fees). The value of unlimited render slaves of equal quality, is another large but somewhat hidden cost. If I was starting a big house, I would rather spend the money on more workstations and render slaves than on software licenses.
 
  11 November 2009
Guys I like the way this discussion is headed. I for one have been looking for a modeler that had a good punch. Modo is my new hobby but in that list I'll throw in blender, wings3d and bonzai (beta). I have worked with C4d and only appreciate body paint.

I can't say I know a whole lot about import/export workflows yet but blender has built up a lot of steam and it's positioning itself to users of all apps like modo did for modelers. A good colleague of mine that uses render man explained it to me in this fashion. At his studio they would texture all elements and export to Maxwell prior to engaging their render farms. Maxwell will produce a "scientific" render with accurate lighting. They would then tweak their lighting and GI, caustics, render settings in general to achieve 2 goals. Render faster and try to keep a hi percentage of the quality similar to the Maxwell render.

That sounded a lot like EI to me, where I work on rendering faking it and then rendering again to save time. Ei has been a hub for many studios but since its not a whole package it doesn't get its full glory IMHO.

Blender is good app for 1 man studios but if it can play with EI faster then it would make a good 1-2 punch. New devs know our wants and have delivered. I think import export should be next hot item on the list along with an upgraded particles simulations and soft/hard body dynamics that we sort of have now. Unfortunately as all this 3d technology evolves they are all seeming to converge with a handful of key differences among them. ( a bit exaggerated but we're heading in that direction)
 
  11 November 2009
Ok dont forget that they have a very good implementation of Vray and Lux for Blender so i dont think we should head these way regarding establishing a bridge between EIAS and Blender.
Efforts should focus more on fixing their own stuff and make it work with the latest OS.Period
You can do Tracking using Syntheyes and pass the tracking points with MoCon
After Effect is not thinking in excluding the IMAGE format any time soon.
So?Lets just wait and see what happened,mean time learn another tool, play an instrument or join a yoga class.

Edgard
 
  11 November 2009
Vray won't even tell you how much it costs. Lux looks interesting, but from what i've seen in their own gallery, it's not that fast. 44 hours for 1 frame on a multithreaded machine and the final result didn't look very much different than what camera could give in a fraction of the time. Going back to the one man shop and the start-up larger shops, long render time is a deal breaker.

Since EIAS and Blender already are somewhat compatible via FBX atleast going from Blender to EIAS, I would think that it would be a lot easier to enhance that, than to come up with all the features that blender brings to the picture.

Of course all this is meaningless until we hear about what EITG or whatever it's called now, is doing as far as settling all the legalities...

(and just to clarify....I'd be happy just being able to have the camera's zoom and DOF settings match exactly, so when you import an animated camera and a scene from Blender into EIAS, you can render out particles or liquids or whatever in Blender and the rest of the scene in EI and have them actually match up without having to tweak the zoom settings to get them to match. Then be able to send an animated scene from EIAS back into Blender, those two features alone would be a huge deal to myself and probably a lot of other users.)

Last edited by monday1313 : 11 November 2009 at 06:47 PM.
 
  11 November 2009
Originally Posted by monday1313: Vray won't even tell you how much it costs.


I think the price is 800+ USD, but VRay for Blender is still in development. The guy who is programming this used, if i remember correctly, an own script with VRay (for Maya).

Regards
Stefan
 
  11 November 2009
Originally Posted by monday1313: ...If EIAS becomes too competitive with autodesk..autodesk will just buy it...
Lol. Seeing the speed of development at EITG, even with the developmental changes (What is it, 6 months now?) we are lightyears away from that ever happening....
 
  11 November 2009
Originally Posted by Veehoy: Lol. Seeing the speed of development at EITG, even with the developmental changes (What is it, 6 months now?) we are lightyears away from that ever happening....



I just noticed this quote and had to laugh. I think Autodesk buying EIAS at this point would only be a good thing - at least it would finalize this once and for all and we could move on.

Either way, I don't see any kind of pursuit of Blender to be worthwhile. Two minor players joining up for no particular reason? To what end? As was already said above, Blender has some good alternate options, I think there's even an Rman script for it.

The problem is that EIAS magic bullet is quickly eroding away - fast renders of massive poly count scenes. Well -lots- of apps can do that these days. Maybe not as fast still, but close enough. The gap used to be massive, and a good reason to use EI despite its glaring faults.

But not so much any more. Obviously people are willing to forgo the slight bump in speed and quality that you get with EI, in favor of other solutions.

Maybe they can still find their niche; AutoDesSys certainly did and are thriving. But they seem to have clearly defined goals and strategies. From EI we've gotten a flurry of cryptic activity, followed by the usual long silence.
 
  11 November 2009
Originally Posted by monday1313: Vray won't even tell you how much it costs. Lux looks interesting, but from what i've seen in their own gallery, it's not that fast. 44 hours for 1 frame on a multithreaded machine and the final result didn't look very much different than what camera could give in a fraction of the time. Going back to the one man shop and the start-up larger shops, long render time is a deal breaker.
.)

Copied from another link that states:
http://www.blendernation.com/v-ray-...gration-update/
(What's even better is the price. Sure, it cannot compete with Blender's quite affordable price-tag, but: For what you get it is extremely cheap. The V-Ray plugin for Maya costs around € 700 (plus taxes). Well, that's not exactly cheap, isn't it? But here in Blenderland things are a bit different. To use V-Ray with Blender you only have to buy the Standalone Version of Maya for V-Ray, and that is just € 245. That's better, right? But even better, that includes 10 (!) licenses for Distributed Rendering. Pretty cool, if you see that Indigo, which, that has to be said, is a decent renderer too, is a bit more expensive (€ 295) and offers only 2 additional render-node-licenses)



Meanwhile Lux is a biased render and you stopped it whenever you feel like it it can be calculating light for many days so i do not know where do you find that info brother.

So i think EIAS has a lot of things to worried about?
I for one will change the whole interface and called them something else, marketing wise makes lot of sense.

Edgard
 
  11 November 2009
Originally Posted by ediris: So i think EIAS has a lot of things to worried about?
I for one will change the whole interface and called them something else, marketing wise makes lot of sense.


I think not only EIAS but also we as users have to worry about that to, at least this thread made me thinking about a few things. I mean the intital thread was a workflow question about EIAS -> Blender. What puzzles me now about this is why to use EIAS at all in the future. Once you have mastered the new Blender 2.5 you simply add a VRay standalone (cheaper than an EIAS update) and there you go, be it as one man shop or as hobbyist or whatever?! What do you guys think?

Regards
Stefan
 
  11 November 2009
Ola,

Ola,

Calm Down..
We are in silence.. Lawyers are working..
After that we hope to be closer a lot..

Thanks

Tom
 
  11 November 2009
Originally Posted by MagicEgger: Ola,

Calm Down..
We are in silence.. Lawyers are working..
After that we hope to be closer a lot..

Thanks

Tom


The Empire State Building was built in thirteen months. I'm starting to think someone needs new lawyers.
__________________
Reginald Thomas Jr.

"Impressive. Most impressive." -- Darth Vader

www.thomascreativestudio.com
 
  11 November 2009
On the other hand...

As I don't know how Blender's Open Source license works, my question is: could EIAS explore or use some of Blender's code (or code from other projects that Blender uses)? I am thinking about particles, physics and so. Are there other O/S projects that EIAS could take advantage of? Would it be legally possible to do so?
 
  11 November 2009
Hey everyone...

Judging from my experience with the Igors and Paralumino....I can see a familiar pattern. My chats with Brad do concur with Tomas' declaration. The legal aspects of this deal is taking exceptionally long. Remember, you're dealing with the legal speak of 3 different languages, spanning 3 different countries and 3 different sets of laws. Combine that with EI's history its no wonder its taking forever.

The pattern I see is consistent with the Igors previous operating procedures when we were working on Paralumino. The Igors are not fans of open development, public betas, or releasing information unless a product is within a breath of being released. I had to fight for open betas for the Paralumino lineup. For the Igors, customer feature requests are secondary to the developers' vision of the product. Don't get me wrong, they'll listen and selectively implement the various feature's users want, but the priority of these features won't be set by the users, it will be set by the Igors and what they see as "best" or inline with their vision of the product...and that's how they roll. To do otherwise generates too much public anticipation and adds to what they see as complications. (Its an understandable position, but I never really agreed with it...its too authoritarian to me. The customer/seller dynamic should be a mutual partnership...not a set of hardened declarations...but that's their business and this is my opinion. Maybe they'll surprise us all.)

If the deal is still in the works, any announcements could be counter productive. Who can blame them for that? My guess is the deal will get completed and hopefully they've used this time wisely to work on new tools and v9 will hit quickly and with a bang.....at least within the remaining EI community. The sooner they get v9 out, the sooner they'll start collecting money. Remember v8 is an EITG product and sales go to EITG.

The biggest challenge Tomas and the Igors will have will be spreading the word. EI was never really known for its wonderful marketing strategies and if Tomas and the Igors are not careful, they'll fall back into that pattern too. Hopefully they've learned from past mistakes and they'll cut the "lack of communication" issue out of EI's history once they take charge.
__________________
Brian J. Pohl

Previsualization Society - Founder / Secretary
Independent - Sr. Previs & Layout Supervisor
 
Thread Closed share thread



Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
CGSociety
Society of Digital Artists
www.cgsociety.org

Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2006,
Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Minimize Ads
Forum Jump
Miscellaneous

All times are GMT. The time now is 11:59 PM.


Powered by vBulletin
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.