Lighting Challenge #15: Film Noir

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Old 05 May 2008   #31
once again the rain on my pictures is a quikly add on photoshop there will be made in 3d a the end whith splash, puddle, ext...

for the moment i work only on composition and lighting..


@tuffmutt1 : ur second image with DOF really works !
for me the tree on the back is to brith, i will see it on shadow with a brighter background... but thats personnal..

keep it up !
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Last edited by guivAg : 05 May 2008 at 07:44 AM.
 
Old 05 May 2008   #32
First try a little ruff round the edge

Yea Well I aint shure bout this whole noir thing but here we go figured it might involve fog.

Last edited by fwad : 05 May 2008 at 07:55 AM. Reason: broken link
 
Old 05 May 2008   #33
Cool intriguing challenge Jeremy!

I'm working on a personal short in my spare time and just a couple of months ago I was playing with a "Film Noir" look so this is the "cherry" for testing my shaders and lighting.
In this challenge too I must "take off the hat" to tuffmutt1 and FeD for their wonderful images.

I will post my first try the next week-end and...

good challenge to everyone!
 
Old 05 May 2008   #34
Here's a fast lighting and compositing test from me

 
Old 05 May 2008   #35
Wow..uday..u r doing some serious stuff here,love those moonlinght effect and awesome DOF..sure the last one looks more impressive,keep it up mate..wish to participate here soon,,..Good luck to all and Congratulations Uday on winning the earlier one!
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Old 05 May 2008   #36
I was able to at least get started on this challenge. I had 2 compositions setup but then I noticed one of them was the same as Fed and one was the same as Uday! So I ended up scrapping those and trying a different one. Not sure if I like it 100% but here's the first image, so far no texturing just comp and lighting start.

 
Old 05 May 2008   #37
Thumbs up

Originally Posted by tuffmutt1: thanks Jeremy ....I cant thank you enough for your encouragement.here;s some improvement on the same scene...
this is a direct render out of max. I ve ben using low saturated maps and shaders to keep em grey overall with blue moonlights and almost white but a bit yellow lights for the bulbs and what not.all mental ray A&D shaders, lanczos for AA to keep it sharp.

Heres a processed in photoshop version of the same above. with some volumetric lights added and DOF using Z buffer and Lens blur.



Tuffmutt, I actually liked this one best. Very "sin city" in the way there is only "blue", or "grayscale", so I think desaturating it loses that. Also the DOF looks wrong/fake to me somehow, but THIS image, above, is totally 100% ace.

IMHO.

/Z
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Old 05 May 2008   #38
The Master has spoken...mean's a lot coming from you Master Zap.
I have to say your Blog has been an invaluable tool along with Jeff Pattons for me for using Mental Ray.
The DOF controls in MR is still a bit rudimentary for as there are no Bokeh controls yet...like what i ve seen in FR.(hint ) Hence the attempt at faking it in post. I also retouched the Zbuffer in Pshop to avoid any blurring in the background and that might be one reason it looks a bit fake.

Thanks again Nitz3d, looking forward to your participation.

Thanks kanooshka for your critic. I think i fixed those wierd shapes on the ceiling in the earlier render.

and here's me going overboard again with post processing and sepia tone. added film grain and scratches on top using the uncorrected Z buffer for DOF.
 
Old 05 May 2008   #39
Talking

Originally Posted by tuffmutt1: The Master has spoken...mean's a lot coming from you Master Zap.
I have to say your Blog has been an invaluable tool along with Jeff Pattons for me for using Mental Ray.


Thanks

Originally Posted by tuffmutt1: The DOF controls in MR is still a bit rudimentary for as there are no Bokeh controls yet...like what i ve seen in FR.(hint )


You mean like the mia_lens_bokeh shader that you can unhide (comes up as "Arch: DOF/Bokeh" or something in max)?

Maybe you should even play with Torsten Hartmanns free "photostudio" plugin, a nice little tool that just makes a neat frontend to the existing shaders.



Originally Posted by tuffmutt1: Hence the attempt at faking it in post. I also retouched the Zbuffer in Pshop to avoid any blurring in the background and that might be one reason it looks a bit fake.


90% of the time that post-DOF looks fake is because it doesn't falloff by distance as it should.

A great rule of thumb for DOF is like this:

Imagine a long thin cone, where the base of the cone is at your camera, more specifically, on the "iris" of your camera. The tip of the cone is at the point which you have set your focus on.

Then, on the other side of that point is a mirrored cone, with the same angle, disappearing infintely into the distance.

The amount of "blur" that DOF will give you, is equal to the size of this cone, in "real units".

So, if your cameras iris is 10mm, and you are focusing at 1 meter distance, this mean that the "size" of your blur AT the camera is 10mm, at 1 meters distance the "size" of the blur is zero. At 2 meters distance, the "size" of the blur is again 10mm, at 3 meters is is 20mm, at 4 meters it is 30mm and so on.

But then remember this is in perspective, as seen from the camera. So 10mm "at" the camera is a huge blur. But 10mm 2 meters away is almost nothing. There is actually a special distance (known as the hyperfocal distance in photography) for which the "DOF cone" behind the focal point will actually grow slower than it shrinks due to perspective, and for this distance, everything beyond the focus point will hence be in focus.

But the key to watc out for, always, is this: "Is my 'near' blur larger than my lens" (or really, my iris). That's the golden rule of thumb for DOF.

Look at your image, the pillar in the foreground. I don't know what aperture the camera is at, but assuming the pillar is a foot in diameter, that really makes the DOF to be almost an inch in diameter. And that is alredy quite a bit away from the camera. For that DOF, the cameras iris would need to be maybe 2 inches in diameter.

Also, try to imagine the distance which is twice as far away as the focus point. Again at this "twice distance" point, the blur will be the size of your iris. This will, in this image, be somewhere slightly closer than the tree (I would guess). But still, the blur "size" on the tree in the back looks more like 5 inches in diameter, which I do not own any camera with that big iris

So what happens, is that your otherwise EXCELLENT image (love the film scratch sepia thing actually!) looks like a minature... because the camera iris is now "larger than life", literally.

....And hey, that could be a neat look for this photo: They were so cheap doing this noir film, this is a minature toy car on a minature set.

The tricky thing is that this is very hard to intuit for most people (although you can often see "that looks wrong, but I dont know why"). Keeping the "imagine the dof as two cones, one based at the camera" can help a lot.

A much easier way is to use the mr DOF (or the above mentioned plugin, or my mr camera plugin) so you get the proper DOF "sizes" depending on the focal length of the camera etc. (But it is imperative the scene is to scale, since DOF is scale dependent, since it is dependent on the *physical radius of the iris*. Wrong scale => kaboom)

/Z
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Last edited by MasterZap : 05 May 2008 at 10:27 AM.
 
Old 05 May 2008   #40
thanks for the input Maestro. was not aware of this plug. i did download your mr camera plugin.

the photostudio free plug seems to be unavailable at the moment. its not available on its main website too....or maybe i am just plain blind...LOL!!! i 'll look for it. and post some results...
Thanks again.

o never mind...got it...LOL!
what do i use inches or feet for this scene?

Last edited by tuffmutt1 : 05 May 2008 at 10:52 AM.
 
Old 05 May 2008   #41
Originally Posted by tuffmutt1: and here's me going overboard again with post processing and sepia tone. added film grain and scratches on top using the uncorrected Z buffer for DOF.

That actually looks like the films from the 40's. Really good. The glow around the light fixture behind the gas sign is kind of weird though. Is it supposed to be solid like that? Kind of distracting. The blur in the foreground is kind of strong too. Gives the scene a modeled miniature feeling. Well, feels like that to me at any rate. Great image though. Captures the heart of the genre.
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Old 05 May 2008   #42
Tuffmutt, I use MR as well and I was wondering if you could tell us how you do your glow and fog. Thanks!
 
Old 05 May 2008   #43
hi cgsociety, here is my try... waiting for crits...
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Old 05 May 2008   #44
I redid the lighting from scratch:

Uday, your work lately is at another level, great work keep it up!


Last edited by visua : 05 May 2008 at 08:57 PM.
 
Old 05 May 2008   #45
new one too :



tuffmutt1 : nice post effet "old image"

MasterZap : thank for the explanation of the Dof

zap (&all) : how to get the lens shader work on frameBuffer other thant the primary ?
i tried but..did not work :-(
i'm not sure i'm very understandable.
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