Don't Touch Me!

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Old 12 December 2005   #16
From my point of view, I do believe that warm touches give the effect we need from the interaction with othersÖ. I mean when you put your hand on your friends shoulder whenever he is frustrated, give your kids a huge hug when ever you are back home, or even if you hugged a friend of yours when you meet him after a while. Correct me if am wrong, but in the States and Europe in general, people tend to point on two males hugging or cheek kissing and conceder them as gay or something. Stereotype, this is the secret word, we judge before we even think. For example in my country, we cheek kiss and sometimes hug those we didnít see along time ago, but we donít point and judge. To make the long story short, there is no shame in physical interactions ďgood ones, I mean donít touch a ladyís ass, and say Oops, physical interactionĒ. Especially with kids, when a man forehead kisses his friendís son or daughter in the west, he might spend the rest of his life in the federal jail, but in the east, speaking about my country, this action may lead to strengthen the relations between you and your friend, do you know why? Because we donít have freak child- abusers in here, at least not like US. In general, I believe that, people of the States and Europe lost (partially) there warmest feelings, the feeling of being attached to the human race. I also believe that taking you emotions out of the freezer (your heart) and putting it in the microwave of emotions will help you to produce real work, full of emotions.


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Old 12 December 2005   #17
Quote: In general, I believe that, people of the States and Europe lost (partially) there warmest feelings, the feeling of being attached to the human race

You are looking at the world through glasses colored by your upbringing, and now you're doing the judging. If people don't behave the way people did where you grew up, it doesn't mean there's something wrong with them. Everyone has emotions, they just go through a lot of trouble to hide them in certain cultures.
Quote:
Because we donít have freak child- abusers in here, at least not like US

Wow, getting worse... The type of person who becomes a child abuser exists in equal percentage in every culture and country, it's just that their activities are more hidden, or there's less of an opportunity for them to manifest, in certain places and situations.


 
Old 12 December 2005   #18
Another issue that I think enters into it is that cultures are becoming more alienated due to medias incessent focus on fear and negativity in reporting, governments contribute through their hidden adgendas which equate to a population in fear= a population that can be controlled and is desperate for a protector. (Witness the Bush administrations playing on the populus by creating boogie men of all types and then eroding civil liberties as a result. People will give up a lot in order to perceive that they are "safe".)

Also, lets factor in religion, which historically has pitted faction against faction, fostered suspician and doubt and, more recently, tended to splinter society into increasingly factionalized groups and pit one faction against another. For what? Money, power, increasing their member base.

Science fiction has long extrapolated societies in which people never leave their homes. Instead holographic representations of themselves interact in the outside world. Isn't that what the internet has provided? How long until holographic iamgery reaches that capacity and incorporates into everyday life?

I think all of these issues are interlinked and that conspiricy theories are not always the result of unbridled paranoia but are the result of real stratigic thinking on the part of the "controllers" in order to better controll the controlled.

And yes, climate, and, sorry Stephen, even genetics, as survival of the fittest factors many issues into which organisms survive and which perish.

So, take them all togather and we have a very difficult path toward creating a world in which we are all "one."

Robert
 
Old 12 December 2005   #19
thanx for the replies, i have read them all with great interest (after recovering from bonedaddy's poke ). it's nice to take advantage of the fact that these forums are so pan cultural.

having travelled for one year after coming from australia, I spent some time in the middel east at one extreme and as far as the tip of norway at the other. arabic countries show great warmth among men and traditionally how that was between men and women was invisible to me as an outsider but publicly i saw no interaction. up in sweeden, finland, denmark and norway bodily contact was indeed reserved and there was a cool atmosphere (or was that just standing on 1 meter thick ice sheets in minus 30 degrees with ridiculously thin souled shoes that gave me the chill ). however i saw the most amazing abstract and contemporary art in a little sweedish national galery, probably made by insane cabin fevered sweedish artists that seldom ventured outdoors.

since yesterday this topic has been knocking about in the back of my mind. i enjoyed reading about that darkness and depression aspect many of you have written about, and have come to the conclusion that i quite enjoy it. an example would be hr. geiger's art which you wouldn't call cheerfull by any stretch of the imagination, non the less inspiring and provocative.

i chose holland conciously as my home away from home after being as far south as aswan and as far north as the artic. i feel at home in these latitudes and most dutch people think i am nuts as they are of the opinion that the weather here generally sux. i have noticed a difference in how people interact depending on climate but have not noticed a change in quality of art made.

everything seems to be in balance.

cheers chris (its friggin raining again ).
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Last edited by Kanga : 12 December 2005 at 11:00 AM.
 
Old 12 December 2005   #20
Originally Posted by roberte: .....Also, lets factor in religion, which historically has pitted faction against faction, fostered suspician and doubt and, more recently, tended to splinter society into increasingly factionalized groups and pit one faction against another. For what? Money, power, increasing their member base....


yes i believe this to be the worst aspect of the human condition. i believe also that we have got an imense ammount of priceless creativity (art and design) out of these processes. the price in human lives cannot be weighed against those gains though.

as far as sci-fi goes,.. yes i am sitting behind my computer on a sunday morning ( with a filthy great hangover from all the human interaction last night ) enjoying a conversation with people that span the globe instead of drinking cofee at my mates place talking about lady bottoms. Hail the comming of the replicator,.. then when eveybody has a ferarri sports cars will become worthless and thou shalt be judged by thine contribution to society and not thine capacity to collect currency. no disrespect to ferarri.

good post robert
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Old 12 December 2005   #21
Oddly enough, it's a proven fact around here that it's not the winter darkness but the time when we start getting more sunlight in the spring that people get depressed.

But I rather think that attributing this northern aloofness to clothing or well insulated windows is quite illogical. I'd see it has more to do with Lutheran Christianity or some German influences. Or most likely the origins are lost in history, and there's no way of knowing what comes from where, and what's more original.

The more I think about this, the more I feel this is something quite natural and has literally nothing to do with modern media. (Or the Bush administration for that matter. The last I heard he was the president of the US, not the EU.) It's more likely that the Lutheran Cristianity is in some way a reflection of this and not the origin.

What seems most likely is that there's always been less resources up north, ergo less people. The connotations of touching obviously have to be different when there's more people around and touching others is literally unavoidable.
 
Old 12 December 2005   #22
Originally Posted by Stahlberg: ...Everyone has emotions, they just go through a lot of trouble to hide them in certain cultures....


CRIPES stephen stahlberg here,.... all we need now is some of eek's negative mass and the thread will be complete!

nice to see you here.
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Old 12 December 2005   #23
Another consideration I failed to mention. Sex.

how has aids & the fear of intimacy influenced the rise of pornography sites and material, phone-sex, role playing, on line web cam exhibitionism etc? (all of which have a tendency to narrow the actual body too body contact that's supposed to be the end result of all of this). (not that, in and of themselves, I have anything against these activities, in fact, in and of themselves I rather enjoy them, factoring out the larger sociological implications.)

I do know that, for myself, the onset of aids has definitely limited my inter-body promiscuity.

And, for the conspiracy theorists among us, what is the actual origin of aids, physical? or strategic thinking on the part of ? agency(s).

Robert
 
Old 12 December 2005   #24
Originally Posted by Kargokultti: ....The connotations of touching obviously have to be different when there's more people around and touching others is literally unavoidable....


.
this is a beauty!
my day is complete.
great stuff.

bang, boing, oops, pardon me, jostle, jostle.
get on a train at tokyo central they hire professional touchers!
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Old 12 December 2005   #25
just one more then i promise to dissipate!

thanx to the mod who moved this thread,.... what a relief!

cheers chris.
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Old 12 December 2005   #26
Originally Posted by roberte: And, for the conspiracy theorists among us, what is the actual origin of aids, physical? or strategic thinking on the part of ? agency(s).

Sheesh, man! Apart from the fact that I now know more about you than I ever wanted to know about anyone anywhere...

The world gets to be a much simpler place if you think about Occam's Razor for a while.
http://pespmc1.vub.ac.be/OCCAMRAZ.html

But back to the subject: yeah, Japan mighn't fit into my theory. Densely populated, but from what I understand, still very reserved when it comes to touching people. But maybe there's other factors to consider there.

By the by, am I right in presuming that the Chinese do not fit into the "dense population = touchy feely population" -theory either? (Supposing it is in any way possible to say that any common denominator applies to the fifth or sixth part of the worlds population.)
 
Old 12 December 2005   #27
Kargokultti: I'm glad I have enlightened you.

Now we must consider just how many assumptions one must make in order to make an informed conclusion about anything.

With apologies to Occam, oversimplification is as much to be avoided as avoiding the effort involved in clearly understanding the ramifications and interwoven threads that make up any issue.

The persons who can process and find correlations between disparate masses of information and, from those form entirely new interpretations and theories and thus change the world are called visionaries.

In order to see what lies beyond the obvious it takes desire, curiosity and the ability to ingest and process vast amounts of seemingly unrelated information, information that for the unimaginative, is seemingly irrelevant but which is vital to an informed conclusion.

By the way, this does relate to body contact. You just need to follow the threads to see the tapestry.

lol.

Robert
 
Old 12 December 2005   #28
Someone just sent me this. Somehow I know it has something to do with all of what we speak of.

"If I could give you anything, I would give you a candle that burns as brightly as the light within you, the light you are...I would tell you to keep it burning, no matter what. I would say don't let the well-intentioned extinguish it. Don't let the mean-spirited blow it out. Don't let your light flicker and fade because of everyday challenges and concerns. The world is large, and no one can illuminate it alone, but it is amazing how a single candle, burning brightly, can light so many others."

- Author Unknown


robert
 
Old 12 December 2005   #29
Originally Posted by Kargokultti: ....But back to the subject: yeah, Japan mighn't fit into my theory. Densely populated, but from what I understand, still very reserved when it comes to touching people. But maybe there's other factors to consider there.....)


i wasn't making fun, i just truely enjoyed that one liner!
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Old 12 December 2005   #30
This is an interesting topic and somewhat related is the way filmmakers portray emotions and sentiment in film. I think, among European filmmakers and film critics, there is a certain disdain for depicting scenes in a sentimental way - it's considered a bit crass and artificial, even manipulative and the common phrase used to refer to it is "too sugary" or "too saccharine". But there's also the perception in Europe that it's a common trait in U.S. films, particularly Hollywood films because audiences quite like it ("feel good factor"?).

If a European film critic describes a film as unsentimental, it's generally considered a compliment - i.e. a more straightforward or honest depiction. But everyone sees things differently, so for others that approach results in cold, distant films - films with subdued or restrained emotion.

Recently, when Pride and Prejudice opened in the U.S. the film was given a slightly different ending from the one shown in UK cinemas. American audiences it was felt would enjoy a somewhat sweeter ending. The same "sweeter" ending was apparently rejected by British audiences at test screenings. This BBC News article has the details:

Longer Pride for US Austen fans

In the end, I'm glad we all don't make films in one way though, the different cultural factors that influence a final film are all part of the appeal of watching films from around the world. And sometimes films from countries we consider conservative or less open than our own (Western) societies can produce warm, honest, humanistic films - the cinema of Iran comes to mind.
 
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