help- Teaching Drawing to 9 Year Olds

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Old 11 November 2005   #31
Originally Posted by adam crockett: Sanne-Chan:
Wierd! I've never heard that before. Can you point me towards somewhere I can read more about that? That explains some things I've noticed about children : )


Apparantly that is why they fail at truely understanding perspective as well as the fact that the neurological "wiring" is not yet fully developed. I'll see of I can find some articles on that. But as you observed so well here:

Quote: Unah in particular gets very frustrated. She's upset that she cannot draw like me. To which I reply, "if you could draw like me, I wouldn't need to be here teaching you." I try to get them to accept where they are at, so that they can move forward. She draws for a couple minutes and then dramatically leans back and exclaims "its TERRIBLE! I'll never draw good!! wahhhhh!" Nevermind the fact that the drawing is already beautiful, and just needs more work. They are both very talented and creative, which is why I was excited to teach them. Instead I get a lot of resistance from them, like you often do between children and teachers. How do I get them to look up to me and learn willingly? I think that one problem is that its only once a week. I wish I had the time to go over there more often.


they * crave * to understand it and get very frustrated when they don't. The drawing of endless details, like mentioned earlier in this thread seems to be a * vital * stage in their ability to observe the world correctly. They are attempting to go from symbolism - the circle that represents nearly everything - to true observation.

A suggestion to counter the frustration (directly from Betty Edwards). Draw a few simple cubes in perspective and let them copy your drawing, without explaining the theory. The guidelines/grid suggested in Drawing on the Right Side might help a great deal. I'm not sure, I've never tried it with children that young.
The chapter on visual development in children (and as I understand it also the grid/guideline method), is included in the NEW Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain

This is a very interesting and educational thread!
 
Old 11 November 2005   #32
I wouldn't worry too much about the Wahhhh! My son and nieces roll that out every so often and it helps to remember that they are developing on several levels simultaneously -not only gaining and exploring skills in art, social, cognitive and physical areas but emotional as well. Some of the wahhh! factor is 'real' as they learn to resolve situations and develop new skills but some is just a fascination with emotions and a discovery of themselves. I second the emphasis on fun, mix it up, break out some clay let them sculpt one day, paint another as they will still discover commonalities of form, texture etc. In fact maybe you can take a page from the daily sketch forum and have themes i.e. "this is monkey week" and let them explore everything from paper bag puppets, to jungle scenes, clay monkeys, to illustrating a monkey story to watching toons with monkeys. Maybe this broader focus on a subject but allowing them to express and 'discover' it in different ways would be helpful?
 
Old 11 November 2005   #33
"Why is everybody else but me having cool stuff to do!!??!!"
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Old 11 November 2005   #34
"kill your darlings"

*gulp*

I can't do that... I redraw a certain piece if I think I could've done it better, but I do keep them , even if it's just for comparisment. It's fun to lay my pictures next to eachother on a table and see how much better the new one is. Then, I put them both in a plastic sheet and look at them again a few months later to laugh at the difference.
Ithink that might also be a good idea for kids. Finish the drawing, write the date on it and look at it again later, so they can see how much better they have become. It'll boost their confidence. Besides that, I don't know how sensitive YOUR pupils are, but if I was nine and someone made me erase my drawing of Goku from DragonballZ (don't ask... ), I would cry and hide under my bed for the next five weeks.
Then again, I'm a wimp

P.S. I saw that thing on kids viewrange on tv, but I don't remember the channel. It was Dutch, I believe. Anyway, they found this one out when trying to see why kids get hit by cars so much. Yes, especially younger kids get distracted by basically everything with a shadow, but they're not stupid. A child of 10 should be able to pay attention to the enviroment and get out of the way when traffic arives (unless it's going really fast of course). Still, they get A LOT more accidents. So much, that you can't blame their short attention span. That's why people started to investigate and eventually found out that their view takes a lot of time to develop. That's why children under 14 are way more likely to be hit by a car, simply because they can not see it coming until it's too late.
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Old 12 December 2005   #35
Good set of books to help kids learn to draw in 3D

Here is a great link (Mark Kistler)for kids to learn to draw. It may seem hokey to us adults but he has some amazing ways for you to look at things. And I am sure they will start to expand on what they will learn from these books and his videos/dvds. The thing I think is cool is he talks to the kids on their level. Things they will understand.

I remember watching his pbs show and thinking-wow...I never thought to look at things so simply.

Hope this works. My 9 and 7 year old are into drawing and I have tons of how to draw books that I let them use. How to draw animals, monsters, people, and just about anything I can find on breaking drawings to simple shapes.

Last edited by Dagar : 12 December 2005 at 03:16 PM.
 
Old 12 December 2005   #36
Just a quick 2 cents worth. But I'd say, don't even think about the vocabulary words for everything. I think they'll be much more likely to be able to pick it up if you show them visually, which I'm sure you're doing. But just possibly try to concentrate on visual examples and having them repeat those, instead of spending 20 minutes trying to teach them the conceptual differences between horizontal, vertical and diagonal. I'm sure once they can repeat what you're talking about they will be much more likely to grasp the technical terms for everything.
 
Old 12 December 2005   #37
Originally Posted by Dagar: Here is a great link (Mark Kistler)for kids to learn to draw. It may seem hokey to us adults but he has some amazing ways for you to look at things. And I am sure they will start to expand on what they will learn from these books and his videos/dvds. The thing I think is cool is he talks to the kids on their level. Things they will understand.

I remember watching his pbs show and thinking-wow...I never thought to look at things so simply.

Hope this works. My 9 and 7 year old are into drawing and I have tons of how to draw books that I let them use. How to draw animals, monsters, people, and just about anything I can find on breaking drawings to simple shapes.


Thanks For the link Dagar! I'll take a look at those : )
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Old 12 December 2005   #38
Originally Posted by seven6ty1: Just a quick 2 cents worth. But I'd say, don't even think about the vocabulary words for everything. I think they'll be much more likely to be able to pick it up if you show them visually, which I'm sure you're doing. But just possibly try to concentrate on visual examples and having them repeat those, instead of spending 20 minutes trying to teach them the conceptual differences between horizontal, vertical and diagonal. I'm sure once they can repeat what you're talking about they will be much more likely to grasp the technical terms for everything.


Im inclined to agree with you there. I would just lose them when I tried to get them to understand concepts. Now I just try to get them to have fun with it and enjoy it.
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Old 12 December 2005   #39
It's so great that you teach these girls drawing from such a small age. I wish I could turn back time of my youth and start drawing a little earlier, and, most importantly, with much more vigor. People, generally, get their talents along with their life, with their first breath. However, developing this talent is not something that is given. That was my problem early on: I've been way too lazy to work a lot on my early works, I was switching my interests too often (one day I'm all into 3dsmax, the other day i'm drawing portraits, etc), never really concentrating on something. And I've never had a tutor, so in my case self-discipline was so much more needed than to some who attend art-schools and the like.

I believe that no teacher, no matter how great, cannot imbue his student with a talent. However, it is the teacher's duty to keep his student on track, to keep him motivated, and discipline him, make him motivate himself, and not being lazy in his studies. The rest will come naturally, through practice.

Anyways, I wish you and your apprentises well!
 
Old 12 December 2005   #40
I just thought of something that might motivate them to practise. Do you have any old drawings from the time you were their age? That way they can see what they can accomplish if they practise long enough
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Old 12 December 2005   #41
Originally Posted by metallix: It's so great that you teach these girls drawing from such a small age. I wish I could turn back time of my youth and start drawing a little earlier, and, most importantly, with much more vigor. People, generally, get their talents along with their life, with their first breath. However, developing this talent is not something that is given. That was my problem early on: I've been way too lazy to work a lot on my early works, I was switching my interests too often (one day I'm all into 3dsmax, the other day i'm drawing portraits, etc), never really concentrating on something. And I've never had a tutor, so in my case self-discipline was so much more needed than to some who attend art-schools and the like.

I believe that no teacher, no matter how great, cannot imbue his student with a talent. However, it is the teacher's duty to keep his student on track, to keep him motivated, and discipline him, make him motivate himself, and not being lazy in his studies. The rest will come naturally, through practice.

Anyways, I wish you and your apprentises well!


Thanks Metallix. The girls are pretty creative and talented already, which is why I was excited about giving them some direction. Keeping them on track...now THERE'S a challenge!
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Old 12 December 2005   #42
Originally Posted by Sanne-chan: I just thought of something that might motivate them to practise. Do you have any old drawings from the time you were their age? That way they can see what they can accomplish if they practise long enough


Thats an interesting idea. Im not sure if I have any art that old around here, but Im pretty sure that my mom kept a bunch. Id have to call her and see if she can scan it and send it my way. Wait... hee hee, maybe I'll post some of that here. Maybe start a whole new thread. It probably already been done.
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Old 12 December 2005   #43
hey adam! it's "me"

I had typed areally long thingie over the weekend when the forums were all goofy and it just wouldn't post.

so in summary from what I remember

variety in exercises...keep it playful

keep them interested
tracing shadows..to sort of indirectly teach neg space and graphic shape
profiles, hands, leaf...whatever...then you can ask them to try and do familiar objects from their imaginations as outlines
draw from memory (show them something..then hide it)
drawing without looking...always kooky fun
collage, mix up the media every now and then, watercolor...
draw/express vocabulary... inside... velocity... hungry... excited... compassion...messy
simultaneous portaits..facing each other drawing at same time...it's fun simply because they wind up cracking up trying to look up at the same time

you can do those as warm ups without drawing from observation and then try and apply them to observation later or in a separate lesson
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Old 12 December 2005   #44
Originally Posted by hugh_jass: hey adam! it's "me"

I had typed areally long thingie over the weekend when the forums were all goofy and it just wouldn't post.

so in summary from what I remember

variety in exercises...keep it playful

keep them interested
tracing shadows..to sort of indirectly teach neg space and graphic shape
profiles, hands, leaf...whatever...then you can ask them to try and do familiar objects from their imaginations as outlines
draw from memory (show them something..then hide it)
drawing without looking...always kooky fun
collage, mix up the media every now and then, watercolor...
draw/express vocabulary... inside... velocity... hungry... excited... compassion...messy
simultaneous portaits..facing each other drawing at same time...it's fun simply because they wind up cracking up trying to look up at the same time

you can do those as warm ups without drawing from observation and then try and apply them to observation later or in a separate lesson


Hey Chris! Good to hear from you. Thanks for pitching in!
Good suggestions all... I'll try to work them in. (Im going to have to print out this thread to work through all this stuff.) We have actually done collage. That was the last class I did with them actually. (Its been a while now...must just be the holiday season) I should scan the collages and post them here. Hope their mom still has them.

I like the dual self portrait idea, though they are very competitve, so it might cause problems : )

Are these exercises from personal experience? I dont remember if you have kids.
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Old 12 December 2005   #45
Originally Posted by adam crockett:
I like the dual self portrait idea, though they are very competitve, so it might cause problems : )

Are these exercises from personal experience? I dont remember if you have kids.


I have a two year old who draws on her own so i haven't started her art boot camp yet

as for experience with the suggestions
some are from memory from grade school..
some I made up.. based on some language exercises I used to teach
(when i was you know where)...drawings were very useful in getting 10 year olds enthusiastic about english. they loved my drawing on the whiteboard in the lessons

but similar to starting a figure drawing class w/ gestures...to warm up...in language and I suspect with almost anything with young kids...you grab their attention with something quick and fun...sometimes reviewing previous lesson concept...then you move on to new territory or a longer lesson... give them some sort of choice in what they do so they feel like they have input in what they are doing, but not so much that they don't have a clear direction

since they are compettitive you could do the dual portaits as a "showdown" where you time ten second intervals for them to trade roles ...back and forth ...and then see what comes up after a minute of that.

an example of choice is giving options for same assignment.... draw one of these following words or pick any thing from this still life and make it aliive (add arms and legs etc)

the main thing is kids like to be creative ...so you can make any dry assignment silly...
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