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Old 07 July 2005   #31
Just name it "Online Schooling".

You want to keep this or any thread focused and useful for future reference? Delete all fanboy and pointless posts. There's nothing worse than looking for your favorite shirt in your roommates sea of dirty socks.

feel free to delete this post after reading it.
 
Old 07 July 2005   #32
I go away for a day, and there are people with pitchforks and torches in my doorway.


People, let do a group hug.

Having said that..

I love you guys, but lets not change the rules of the game after the game has started.

The idea behind Art Discussion is to TALK art.

The idea behing the Artistic Anatomy and Figurative Art is to discusss the itty gritty principles of anatomy. Anatomy is NOT something that can be simply discussed in a two sentence tutorial. It requires YEARS to perfect and study, and people are responding to it. It is something that is done with A LOT of sketching and drawing, thus, that it is why it is in the WIP forum.



Why do we need it?

Lets look at HOW POPULAR it has been.
There is areason for it. People are STARVING for detailed studies on classical principles of the human body. and that is what the forum is offering them. Here is my take on it,
it the numbres go down, (and that will take a while considering the # of hits), Kill the subforum (i mean it is WAY out of the way) until then, leave it in peace.

-R
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Last edited by RobertoOrtiz : 07 July 2005 at 05:01 PM.
 
Old 07 July 2005   #33
''intellectual masturbation'' - You could not have said it better.

I agree , the art discussion forum needs more people like Linda sharing their ideas enthusiastically for the sake of helping all other digital / traditional artists out there.

Im not good enough to share techniques but once I discover one of my methods would be useful to the community I would definately share
 
Old 07 July 2005   #34
does it limited to 2D art? or everything?
 
Old 07 July 2005   #35
Some ideas...

Create a series of threas called:

THE FUNDAMENTALS:
and discuss the core principles of Perpectice,
Color Theory, Light Theory.

There is enough material to go for a while.
ill visit the forum, after my class today and ill post some ideas on it.
-R
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Old 07 July 2005   #36
Originally Posted by RobertoOrtiz:
I love you guys, but lets not change the rules of the game after the game has started.

The idea behind Art Discussion is to TALK art.


I'm sorry, but that is not true at all. If you go back and actually reread the brainstorming threads in the Forum Leader only forum, you'll see that the Art Discussion forum was always intended to be a source of learning and sharing art knowledge, along with discussions. Why do you think we made those sticky threads in the Art Discussion Forum? Why do you think I asked Steven and Linda to be a part of it? It's because they are experienced artists that could help guide and teach members that want to learn.

And what happens if we rename Art Discussion forum to Art Theories and Techniques? Wouldn't that mean it'll become the appropriate place for all art tutorials and learning threads? Would it be ok then to consolidate and reorganize things?

No one has said any of the threads in the WIP 2D forum aren't important. It is BECAUSE they are important that we should consolidate all the valuable learning materials in one place. It would be a bad idea to have the WIP 2D forum and the Art Discussion forum to have overlapping content and focus. One should be a place for people to post WIP works, and the other for people to learn, teach, and discuss art.
 
Old 07 July 2005   #37
Re: RobertoOrtiz & Lunatique.

SCRAP! SCRAP! SCRAP!
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Old 07 July 2005   #38
Originally Posted by Lunatique: Art Discussion forum will be fairly broad in scope, but within the boundaries of drawing/painting/sculpting/design techniques, art theory discussions, philosophical discussions, art history, influential artists, inspirations, and legal issues relevant to artists.

You are encouraged to participate in the discussions, share knowledge and inspirations, invite artists you admire to join our community, and hopefully, we'll be able to learn and grow as artists together.


In all seriousness, Lunatique, you might want to edit your sticky. This sounds like recruitment poster for "intellectual masturbators".

Anyway, I see a real value in the art-related discussions that have gone on. We should try to to balance those discussions with tutorials and such, but no need to purge the forum and start from scratch. The big question is, "How do we inspire people to write tutorials and post them in this forum?" We can start by rewriting the mission statement to emphasize the posting of tutorials.
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Old 07 July 2005   #39
Oh a voice in my head is speaking to me, the picture on the front page must suggest that i murder artists who dont show me their techniques.
 
Old 07 July 2005   #40
Hey Rob, I was thinking and realized how much of a downer I was. You are trying to make a serious effort to ask others to help and I was mostly saying already that it wasn't going to work. Geez, I can't help but to look the fool. But from reading some posts after mine I came to notice the spirit of everyone coming together to help one another. I think that is what it's all about. Even though I do think that many artists that are not already a part of CGtalk.com are more likely to decline the offer because of the things I stated previously, I forgot momentarily the power of trying. it is also more likely they will come if their is sincere asking, than to not ask. Forgive me everyone for being a damper on this thread.
Also, I overlooked the gems within our own midst. Most everyone has something to offer this forum. When you stated 'artists that you admire' I automatically thought only about exceptional artists that were from an outside source (outside CGtalk.com). Many of the artists here are exceptional or have the potential to be. Many whom have great finds of artistic knowledge, and all they would have to do is volunteer it.
And, some of the really great artists already in this forum do not know to help until asked, or are too busy to know.

Hey Rob excuse me. My thinking hasn't really been clear lately, and my awareness of negative thoughts have lessened quite a bit. Do your do brother.

Last edited by snowkiwi : 07 July 2005 at 09:01 PM. Reason: misspelling
 
Old 07 July 2005   #41
Originally Posted by Lunatique: And what happens if we rename Art Discussion forum to Art Theories and Techniques? Wouldn't that mean it'll become the appropriate place for all art tutorials and learning threads? Would it be ok then to consolidate and reorganize things?


I tend to agree with Lunatique. I think Rebecca's subforum should fall under the 'Art Discussion' Forum. It's, as Lunatique has stated, about learning... and discussion. The 'WIP' forum is for the wip's. Rebecca's subforum deals with theories about anatomy and learning the basics etc, so that will definately qualify more for an Art Discussion subforum.
Renaming this forum to 'Art Theories and Techniques' would be a good move, I think. It will also draw more people in, who were maybe previously shy about posting in an 'art discussion' forum.
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Old 07 July 2005   #42
Lightbulb Sticky thread for tutorial requests!

The Daily Sketch Forum has a sticky for topic suggestions. Why not create one for tutorial requests?

Example:
shading cloth
drawing feet
simulating rusted metal

That way some enterprising young artist can have an idea about what skills people want to learn and they can address the need. Even artists like to know that they're needed.

Maybe if there were even a little trophy icon awarded to top notch tutorials. A little positive reinforcement wouldn't hurt.
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Old 07 July 2005   #43
This may be way out there but if these tutorials turn out really nicely they could go into a book published by Ballistic. So as far as incentive for people to post their tutorials, the thought that said work could end up being printed might up the anty. I can't think of many artists I know that wouldn't like to see their name in print even if they have been published before. The spirit of this idea is for education and discussion but throwing in some incentive never hurt. Plus, last time I checked this site gets most of it's revenues from book sales as well as what advertising can bring in and I think a good art book by the members here would sell well.
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Old 07 July 2005   #44
This may sound like a post with a twinge of some bitterness, but I would really love a tutorial thread. I find it hard to swallow when theirs a thread on how skin shaders work, and I canít find a single tidbit about how to use skin shades and sss. It really annoys the heck out of me. Maybe itís just me. I know theirs info in those threads but its lost in all that masturbation. I do feel itís important to discuss theories of skin shaders and sss, but if theirs no info for beginners its hard to partake in such a discussion and the information is lost because yours still struggling how they work to improve them. Itís because of the many threads that I see the artist looming over the spectators that I have sworn never to do the same. If someone needs help Iím going to help them


I sometimes feel that there's a sort of fear with good artists that their style and skill will be stolen and if they make a tutorial then there art will become less unique or their will be more qualified artists to compete with.


Itís like a double sided sword. The above is true, but if your craft are not passed on to the next generation, they will be lost and may never come alive. Imagery of a caged bird comes to mind.


Sorry about this post. Its how I feel. Both sides do have a point and reasons, I just wish I could find some hard info on mental ray for Maya and jazz like that.

With that said Iím going to have to side on having a threads based on tutorials with the above ideas for motivation.

Last edited by Dire-Wolf : 07 July 2005 at 01:24 AM.
 
Old 07 July 2005   #45
In all seriousness, Lunatique, you might want to edit your sticky.


I think so too, simply remove the 2 items "art theory discussions" and "philosophy discussions". But that's easy to say now, nothing is sharper than hindsight is it. If we had known then what we know now...
There's nothing all that heinous about philosophical discussions, it's just that when most of the people involved are laymen in the field (in this case art, philosophy and metaphysics), and when everyone KNOWS from the start the subject is impossible to agree on and has no practical value to our work, it can take up valuable time and space for no good reason.

However, it might be a good idea to keep the longest silliest such thread as a Sticky, only name it "Example of useless circular bickering" or something, with an explanatory paragraph at the start, to help people avoid starting new ones - to work as a lightning rod, or as a cold shower, for people itching with philosophical questions.

It's understandable that Roberto wants to 'keep' Rebecca (she's a valuable asset both to CGTalk but also to the WIP forum he's worked so hard to make a success, he introduced her here etc), and that Rebecca wants to 'stay' with Roberto (he's the initial contact, they've built a relationship). I don't think we should fight over Rebecca.
Instead I think the 'Art Techniques, Theories, and Tutorials' (or whatever) forum should simply put up a big sticky link to Rebecca's subforum, maybe with a thumbnail at the top of the forum, maybe while we're at it also to the DSG and the Subway Sketch groups.

Last edited by Stahlberg : 07 July 2005 at 04:45 AM.
 
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