What Isn't Art?

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  07 July 2005
Murder art? Perhaps, but I think we as human beings should be able to draw a line at some point. I mean, come on people! Weres your sense of morals? (Not directed to anyone here at CGtalk, but those who do such crimes.)

A snipers skills. I dont really pin point it to murder, if you were even pin pointing it to murder, more of the ability to use the gun with extream skill. In the end thats what art is, the ability to use a tool either it be your hands, gun or paint brush and use it with skill, the skill of expressing your self.

Anouther point I want to bring to this table of none sense is, Im sure as hell dont want a dead cow in a bottle in my living room, nor a turd in the shape of anything. Do you?

Lines are made in the dirt, dose anyone look down and see were they lay?
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by slaughters: My question now then is - What isn't art?


If you read the Republic (by Plato) one of the underlying wisdoms of it implies that Art is that which results from finely honed craft that has purpose. That purpose may be to beautify, inspire, enlighten or serve.

To be art, it must have craft and purpose. To be fine art, it must have highly skilled craft, and refined purpose.

Without craft and purpose, it is not art.


The Republic
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  07 July 2005
ability to find out and explore "original" is a form of mental craftmanship, can lead to sensational or not, thus looking for craft in known ways may not serve well to define art.

for example politics, i do not mean exploiting good will of citizens, i mean serving citizens, bringing prosperity through politics is a form of art maybe one of the biggest art because impacts of such cannnot be done by one individual piece of gallery art maybe because there is something bigger in it.

my answer to the topic is that hollywood, games, %99 of cg works, %99 concept designs for commercial products, lord of the rings, starwars etc are not art (could have been, but has not been so far)





Originally Posted by KBOC: If you read the Republic (by Plato) one of the underlying wisdoms of it implies that Art is that which results from finely honed craft that has purpose. That purpose may be to beautify, inspire, enlighten or serve.

To be art, it must have craft and purpose. To be fine art, it must have highly skilled craft, and refined purpose.

Without craft and purpose, it is not art.


The Republic
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  07 July 2005
Marcel Duchamp

In response to the 'is poop art?' question:

An italian artist who was friends with Duchamp sold cans of his own excretion in galleries in the first part of the 20th century. Surrealists, the group to which these two artists belong, were constantly forging the question of 'what is art?'.

"Shock Art" is a trend like any other in the World of Art, but it's really up to the viewer to decide What Is Art. If something moves you, it moves you -- and in the same respect, if it doesn't move you, no big deal, you don't have to like it.

If Hypothetically one were to decide that murder is art, it wouldn't change the fact that murder is illegal, and immoral to most. That artist would most likely go to jail...
 
  07 July 2005
You know what? This is an almost impossible question to ask, because every single person has a different opinion on the subject, and will be contradicting what everyone else said. There's no right answer for this question because it's all subjective, rather than objective.
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by Sylanya: There's no right answer for this question because it's all subjective, rather than objective.


You've just answered the question ;]
 
  07 July 2005
I personally can't believe it took five pages, but it's a question which could get some funny replies after all...

poop......can you imagine what freud would be thinking about all this, lol.
"there's nothing wrong with me! I just have issues!!!" ... "are you replacing your inner childs becoming with the poop perhaps?" ... " what?! no! I just feel like crap!"
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by Ilikesoup: An artist needs an audience, but he won't have one if he's trying to minimize the possibility of being seen.

i don't believe that at all. an artist most certainly does not need an audience. that's not what makes him an artist. he could be a complete recluse, making poop sculptures, dressing them in his own clothes, and he'd be an artist.
i believe that an audience is sort of counter-productive to the personal growth of the artist. if he gets affirmation from others saying, 'dude, you're an artist! your work is great', it affects the work you do in a very subtle but significant way. you'd do your art with the knowledge that others may see it. a recluse will speak more from his heart in his work, than someone who knows that he is somewhat in the public eye (by 'public eye', i mean even just your family, or just a friend. i don't only mean a crowd of people).
but being a recluse is pretty much impossible in the world we live in. i feel that my artwork would be different if i was convinced that no one would ever see it.
because ideally you're not making this art for anyone else. you're doing it for yourself. but once you know that it can be public, your intentions changes, no matter how slight.
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Last edited by nineinchneil : 07 July 2005 at 02:23 PM.
 
  07 July 2005
I didn't mean for this thread to talk about what *is* art. I'm quite aware that there are many people who are willing to beleive that anything created by anybody for any reason could be called art.

What I want to know is what *isn't* art?

Is child molestation (pedopehlia) art? No? What about images of it?

Can the "act" be untolerable, yet a photograph of the act be alright?

P.S.

I remember a number of people defending a 3D artist who made images of bound japansese school children in "questionable" poses. In fact there is a thriving market for this kind of work in Japan.
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by slaughters: What I want to know is what *isn't* art?


I tried, everyone who followed missed the point: Without craft and purpose, it is not art.
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  07 July 2005
Quote: What I want to know is what *isn't* art?

for the most summarized answer, see Sylanya's post.

Quote: Is child molestation (pedopehlia) art? No? What about images of it?

see previous posts.

Quote: Can the "act" be untolerable, yet a photograph of the act be alright?

this is art.


Quote: I remember a number of people defending a 3D artist who made images of bound japansese school children in "questionable" poses. In fact there is a thriving market for this kind of work in Japan.

this is art.
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by nineinchneil: because ideally you're not making this art for anyone else. you're doing it for yourself. but once you know that it can be public, your intentions changes, no matter how slight.


I won't try to speak for anybody but myself here. I've filled entire sketchbooks with doodles and drawings. Those sketchbooks were more of a personal journal, a way of capturing an idea or a vision I had at the time like somebody snapping a photo. I don't know that they were art until I shared them with somebody else and that somebody responded to the sketches. Art without an audience is like a person alone talking to himself -- it happens, but somehow it seems unnatural. Before I started posting on CGTalk, there wasn't much motivation for me to create art. The art I post doesn't necessarily cater to anybody's tastes but my own, however I'm intensely interested in the reaction it generates.

Special thanks to Sylanya -- no sense in debating if we're all working from a different definition of "art". Personal observation, anyone?
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by nineinchneil: for the most summarized answer, see Sylanya's post.


That it's just all subjective?

The deflection of a legitimate question with an answer that broadens a definition to include anything and everything based on perception... is not art, it is a copout (a method of avoidance)

Perception is not art.
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by KBOC: That it's just all subjective?

The deflection of a legitimate question with an answer that broadens a definition to include anything and everything based on perception... is not art, it is a copout (a method of avoidance)

Perception is not art.


well, then this discussion isn't going to progress any further, because that is the answer. what i'm arguing is that anything and everything can be art based on the perception. in the end, it is all subjective, because everybody has their own opinions.

perception is what makes art art. care to deny that?
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by slaughters: ... What isn't art?


if you have to ask if it is art... then it isn't.
 
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