What Isn't Art?

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  06 June 2005
As I get it:

Art is the creation derived from the blueprints in one's mind.

As it is one mind that creates some piece of art (in the wider meaning), it is totally personal and subjective, and others can only be explained or try to understand it's real meaning. Also, as it is derived from one mind, it is a mixture of real elements seen through the eyes of the creator. Meaning that every element in art comes from our world, no matter what it is, and as we all see our world differently, it is even more personal. And I also think that art cannot be judged by a scale with some maximal quality set. When a child draws something, others will not consider it art because they know of better things, but it will be art for the child and the children around him/her. So - long story short - everything that a man willingly creates (out of an image or vision, and not as a part of a normal living process (as for 'poop') hehe) is art, from some point of view.
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  06 June 2005
art is whatever the self proclaimed (or publicly accepted) artist says it is. But just because they are an artist, and make art, doesnt make it GOOD art, or make them a GOOD artist. Art started and has always been about communication. In one abstract form or another. So USUALY road kill doesnt communicate much of a message to anyone except "hey, a gross dead animal."

of course the artist may have a deeper meaning he wants you to understand behind all of this, but it is the artists job to be SKILLFULL enough to lead your mind to where he wants it to go. Not just impale you with imagry (or sound) that you will simply reject and forget about.
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  06 June 2005
i know i said i wouldn't contribute anymore, but alas, i am weak. . .

Originally Posted by slaughters: Is murder art? Is pedophlia art? Photos of murder ? Photos or paintings of pedophlia?


i'm going to tell you something that'll make a lot of people see red. . . YES, photos and paintings of murder and pedophilia can be art. we've all seen paintings of dead people, there are many paintings depicting execution (jesus christ, anyone?).
pedophilia itself is not something i'm justifying as art, but rather the way it's taken in, and the emotion it evokes; the outrage, the anger, the sadness, the realization of how f***ed up the world is. emotions are artistic. we see it on the big screen and on broadway. drama consists of emotions, and drama is definitely art.
if photos and paintings of wars, soldiers dying, adultery, dark-age torture chambers, the spanish inquisition, biblical paintings of cain murdering abel are art, why can't it be art now?

Quote: It's easy to claim something is art when you like, or at least understand it. At one point do you say that something can not be called art, because it can not be tolerated by a healthy society?


healthy society?! what in the world makes you think that we live in a healthy society? you believe that everything society dictates is right? what do you feel about the Oslo Gay Pride Festival short film on the cgtalk front page right now? i'll tell you something; the majority of our 'healthy society' wouldn't see that as acceptable. what beliefs do you base on society?

looking at art as something tangible is not accurate. art isn't an object. it's what you percieve, what you take in from that object. if you limit yourselves to seeing a painting of murder as a 'mocking' of the murder victim, then you're limiting what you percieve.
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  06 June 2005
Originally Posted by nineinchneil: emotions are artistic. . . . drama is definitely art.


Emotions are not artistic. Emotions may be the result of experiencing artistic, but me getting goosebumps is not performance art. Correct me if I am taking your statement out of context.

Shakesperean drama is art. Baby Jessica being trapped down a well is not art.


Originally Posted by nineinchneil: art isn't an object. it's what you percieve, what you take in from that object.


Art is conceived in the mind but until it's worked to completion it's not ART. Otherwise it's just an idea.
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  06 June 2005
but isn't the fact that you're getting goosebumps testify that it's evoking an emotion out of you? i guess i said that wrong; emotions itself isn't art, but the act of evocation i believe is art.
they can very well make a movie about baby jessica being trapped in a well, and it can be a cinematic masterpiece. the event itself may not be art, but it's portrayal can be.

Quote: Art is conceived in the mind but until it's worked to completion it's not ART. Otherwise it's just an idea.

i agree with you to an extent; i think that until it's worked to completion, it's ill-conceived art.

on the poop issue, take for example an animal eating plant life, only to defecate it, which in turn fertilizes the next plant. i can see art in that circle of balance. people here are saying poop isn't art, but they're looking at it an something disgusting, when there are other viewpoints. you say it's disgusting and repulsive. i say it's an important factor in the preservation of nature.
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  06 June 2005
Originally Posted by nineinchneil: but isn't the fact that you're getting goosebumps testify that it's evoking an emotion out of you?


You can get goosebumps from being cold. Cold is not art.

Originally Posted by nineinchneil: i agree with you to an extent; i think that until it's worked to completion, it's ill-conceived art.


ill-conceived means the basic concept is flawed, not that the process is incomplete.

Originally Posted by nineinchneil: on the poop issue, take for example an animal eating plant life, only to defecate it, which in turn fertilizes the next plant. i can see art in that circle of balance. people here are saying poop isn't art, but they're looking at it an something disgusting, when there are other viewpoints. you say it's disgusting and repulsive. i say it's an important factor in the preservation of nature.


It's no coincidence that "art" is the start of the word "artificial". A painting of a flower is man's attempt to capture the beauty that he sees. A cinematic masterpiece is an event reinacted in an artificial way -- camera angles and the way that information is presented puts the event into a context that didn't exist before.
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  06 June 2005
Quote: You can get goosebumps from being cold. Cold is not art.
oh, quit being so literal! you know very well that you were originally talking about getting goosebumps as a result of emotions. cold is not an emotion, therefore it isn't what i'm talking about. it's not like i'm saying that everything that gives you goosebumps is art. . .

Quote: ill-conceived means the basic concept is flawed, not that the process is incomplete.
an unfinished painting of st. jerome by leonardo da vinci
looks like art to me.

Quote: It's no coincidence that "art" is the start of the word "artificial". A painting of a flower is man's attempt to capture the beauty that he sees. A cinematic masterpiece is an event reinacted in an artificial way -- camera angles and the way that information is presented puts the event into a context that didn't exist before.
agreed.
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  06 June 2005
Originally Posted by Miak: As I get it:

Art is the creation derived from the blueprints in one's mind.

As it is one mind that creates some piece of art (in the wider meaning), it is totally personal and subjective


That precludes so much artwork in the world that art becomes an extarordinarily narrow field. No motion pictures, no actors, no screenwriters, certainly no 3D craftsmen, as their tools are inhearently made by software developers who have some hand in the creations they achieve...
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  06 June 2005
art eh? ... isnt it?

I'd have to go with the idea that everything has the 'potential' to become art.

I feel art is the process of envoking an emotional response in either the viewer or the creator. Regardless of whether it be a positive or negative response as long as the viewer stops to see the subject of the art. And I dont mean to just look at it (or listen, touch, smell - whatever) But to really "see" the subject as an idea as well as a thing.

I feel a lot of people mistake the aesthetic for the artwork ... something might be ugly, or offensive or appear to have no value - but that doesnt mean its not art.

For a long time I used to look at some of the stuff people put in galleries or whatever and say .. thats shit or thats good based on my personal taste. I spent 5 years studying Fine Art and I walked out the door thinking "I know Art, I went to Artschool" ... it's taken me 3 more years of actually stopping and looking at art and realising there's an unbelieveable amount I never saw when I experienced a work.

I'd prefer people to stop and ask ... why am I being asked to look at this. What was the artist trying to get me to think, feel, experience. Sometimes you need to look past what the object is to what it represents or what it could represent.

I still see a lot of work I dont like ... but I also like to think I can stop and try and analyse it a bit more (perhaps find out what it is that bugs me about it)

a rock is just a rock until you give it a meaning even if its just to say ... "Hey ... check out this rock"


I guess this is kinda ranty ... but I hate the idea of this is art, thats not art ... sure you can say something is bad art, you can even list the things that are technically wrong with the art (composition, colour, form etc) but it only takes one person to believe something is art for it to become art for that person.
 
  06 June 2005
going back to the "Is murder art?" absolutely. If you think you can argue this go speek with a serial killer on death row. They will explain in graphic gleefull detail about the coriographed motions and patterns they went through as they killed their victums.

or, talk to a special forces sniper and have him tell you about leading the target, watching the target's manerisms, knowing the perfect time to fire to ensure a kill and minumize possibility of being detected.

these things, as the self proclaimed artist say, are art forms. They are releasing their creative energy (be it healthy or not) just like a painter does on canvas.

but just because its art doesnt mean its GOOD art or that you have to LIKE it or AGREE with it.

and yes even COLD is art. put a gallery of people in 40 digree conditions and watch them. art. dumb art. but still art.
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  06 June 2005
Originally Posted by CodeNothing: talk to a special forces sniper and have him tell you about leading the target, watching the target's manerisms, knowing the perfect time to fire to ensure a kill and minumize possibility of being detected.


There's a difference between doing something artfully (cleverly, with special attention to craft) and creating art. A few posts ago you said that art is communication. An artist needs an audience, but he won't have one if he's trying to minimize the possibility of being seen.
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  07 July 2005
, was the last one in the row...I guess it should cmplicate matters a bit more for ya, for clarification, the first one's there too. Personally I rely on my own moral self critique to define what I see as art. So this quote doesn't represent my opinion accurately. Too much to write down anyway.

Quote: art

Word:
art
1 Pronunciation (ärt)
n.
1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.
7.
a. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.
b. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: "Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice" Joyce Carol Oates.
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by CodeNothing: going back to the "Is murder art?" absolutely.


Maybe we can get them all NEA grants...
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  07 July 2005
Originally Posted by slaughters: OK,

With the Roadkill thread and others recently there have been many people ready to leap to defend the artist. Claiming that whatever the artist was doing (no matter how distastful the poster personally thought it was) should be considered art.

My question now then is - What isn't art?

Is there anything at all that you would put in the "It ain't art, no matter who did it" category?


I would like to point out ONE thing i know is not art,not matter how many people defend it.

The cow chopped into pieces i saw online at some gallery. It was a full cow, chopped up into quaters and slipped inside of glass.
It was just stupid.
 
  07 July 2005
Double post, sorry ...
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Last edited by JARhead : 07 July 2005 at 04:28 AM. Reason: Double post
 
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