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Old 04-17-2005, 09:53 AM   #31
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Kargokultti, it was never my intention to point out that on anyone in here had this opinion.. when i was talking about 'many people' i mean people I have talked to and I have heard very strange stuff. sorry to bring up the horror examples like this everytime someone has a meaning, it was more of a interresting digression. when i said picasso was one of the first, im not really sure anymore because artist seem to be inspired by artists before them. but picasso has made a great effort to the kind of art, so its is important to history and for inspiration.
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Old 04-17-2005, 11:09 AM   #32
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Isn't it more fun to pick on easy targets like Boris Vallejo and Luis Royo? Wait--that'd be too easy.
 
Old 04-17-2005, 11:10 AM   #33
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There are reasons why Bourgereau is not mentioned in your books.. there is a thread in the forum with all the information in. He is in my top 5 respected artists... but like anything 'it's all politics '

Kargokultti ; . You say you are not an art history student..saying art is open to your own interpretation..etc.. and yet your trying to validate and qualify your own opinion way too strongly.., Picasso was not the 'first', and as you say there are no 'firsts' , but there are turning point artists.. who are acredited or assosiated with a new art movement.. picasso was one of these.
Your whole attitude is very immature . wanting to 'bash' artists.. for your own reasons... perhaps you should be an art history student and learn the history of these artists before you do that.. Dismissing or criticising anything before having full knowledge of it is a very bad trait.
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Old 04-17-2005, 08:52 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stripe
Your whole attitude is very immature . wanting to 'bash' artists.. for your own reasons... perhaps you should be an art history student and learn the history of these artists before you do that.. Dismissing or criticising anything before having full knowledge of it is a very bad trait.


Disaggree strongly there... Dismissing things without having full/good/enough knowledge of it is really a necessity. I could never know the full story behind every painting, and I don't want to either. Therefore you could never criticise anyones opinion in any forum, anytime, is that right? Highly impractical, I would say.Try to apply this thinking in politics and no one would be allowed to say anything. Progress is made through carelessness, not caring too much about aching toes.

You've got points on the method, though. For example: I have a hunch that such a discussion as this (the bashing-thing) feels more at home on the Messenger or Icq. There are simply too many people getting offended in a discussion like this, here. The discussion gets stalled and comes to a halt instead of progressing towards pattern recognition in one's own taste and interest.

And it is so interesting! I've been following this thread in the hopes of finding new artists to check out. Because if someone has got a dislike, there ought to be others liking it. I might be one of them. What do I get instead? Picasso... (no opinion on his works there, just a sigh concerning old news)
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Old 04-17-2005, 09:19 PM   #35
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Actually, I think the impressionism was the "first" really significatif modern art movement. After the invention of photography, painting was nolonger a matter of religious pictures, portraits of famous or rich people. Photography liberated painting. Now painting could be experimental and it started out with the impressionists who dared use visible brushstrokes and paint everyday scenes instead of posed portraits.

At that time (the end of 1800), Bourgereau and others with influence tried their best to prevent these people from being accepted with their new art visions. Nowadays, if we like the impressionists or not, I think we must agree that the impressionist paintings are very widely accepted and even very appreciated all over the world. I don't think we find that there is anything really provocative about their painting style. Bourgereau was also against the construction of the Eifel Tower - today the world's most visited tourist site.

You can be against any modern artist if you like - Picasso for example - , but those artists have allowed other artists after them to do what they like. Instead of just copying nature, the artists of the 20th century became creative and showed us tons of new ways to do art.
 
Old 04-18-2005, 07:59 AM   #36
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'At that time (the end of 1800), Bourgereau and others with influence .....'
Bourgereau was not born until 1825...

Goldlee cox.. perhaps I should have rephrased what i orginally said..My comments were directed to someone 'bashing' or 'condemning' an artist before having any knowledge or understanding of his work.. Disagreeing on the artistic talents or motives begind the work, but on an immature level..As schoolkids do to monet..when visiting galleries. I comlpletely agree with you in that there is an opening to discuss or raise opinions on a piece of art or an artist in a positive and constructive way... But as you said.. the 'bashing' belongs in and messenger or nowhere.
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Old 04-18-2005, 09:51 PM   #37
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Sorry, just a way of writing - by 1800 - I meant 1800 until 1900. I should have wrote "end of the 19th century".
 
Old 04-19-2005, 01:49 AM   #38
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Oh come on, there's gotta be worse artists then Picasso?

How About Peter Max?


Or Jackson Pollack....I really hate him:



I believe art can be like Films....there's good ones and bad ones.
There's plenty of people that graduated from film school and did bad films.

I could just as easily put up Boris Vallejo and Frank Frazetta......even Frank Frazetta confesses to being a hack painter.

Last edited by NoSeRider : 04-19-2005 at 03:07 AM.
 
Old 04-21-2005, 03:46 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NoSeRider
How About Peter Max?


Ya know I could have gone a few more years without seeing that.
 
Old 04-21-2005, 08:09 AM   #40
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Peter Max's style is way better in animation-- did you ever see 'Yellow Submarine'? His art is really funky in it.
Not just his own, of course, but he was one of the main artists in it.
The truth is-- no artist is completely bad. Everyone has their good sides and bad sides. I don't like Dali's visions, but he is a technically excellent artist. If he was a terrible draughtsman, I'd like to bet he wouldn't have been anywhere near as popular.
The thing that saddens me most is that a lot of artists graduating these days still don't have technical art skills. A lot don't know anything about perspective. What's the use in being extremely creative and having terrific concepts if you execute them badly?
LOOMIS, people, LOOMIS!
 
Old 04-21-2005, 08:35 AM   #41
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Quote:
I could just as easily put up Boris Vallejo and Frank Frazetta......even Frank Frazetta confesses to being a hack painter.


Hm... I guess I'm OT if I try to defend a painter in this thread, but I can't help it.
Putting Boris and Frank together like that is like saying Thomas Kinkaid is as good as Rembrandt. Frank invented that style, thousands copy him unsuccessfully. Him saying that about himself is just his humble way (when I met him I saw it firsthand). His skills are simply mindblowing, if you look closer... he did most of it without reference. Which is something I've never seen any other artist be able to do.
 
Old 04-21-2005, 08:36 AM   #42
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just one more little thing about picasso

his early years (14-15 years old boy):
http://www.eyeconart.net/history/20...arlyPicasso.htm
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Old 04-21-2005, 08:41 AM   #43
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Well, first of all, isn’t Bouguereau how it’s spelled, not Bourgereau? Or am I entirely confused and mistaking one artist for the other? (I probably am) It’s much easier finding information on him if the name is right :]

Secondly… I don’t think one is ‘bashing’ simply because one doesn’t enjoy the work of an artist. There are plenty of famous artists that have made their place in history that I don’t entirely enjoy the paintings of – I might respect them for the impact they had on the world, but that doesn’t mean I have to like their work. Having said that, of course it hurts me just a wee bit if someone hates a favourite artist of mine, but tastes differ after all.

The only artist I can think of at the top of my head that I’m not too keen on is actually Picasso, and then only some of his work – and then mostly because they just do not ‘engage’ me the way I suspect they are supposed to. No fault of Picasso’s, I think the problem lies entirely with me. I just don’t appreciate more modern art. I’d like to state, though, that it would be some of the pictures that I don’t quite like – the man himself, I find absolutely fascinating.
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Last edited by Enayla : 04-21-2005 at 12:56 PM.
 
Old 04-21-2005, 09:26 AM   #44
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I can't really say I like Roy Lichtenstein's style that mutch, and I'm not really impressed by majority on the cubism paintings, some of them are Ok tho'.
But the artists themselves, hmm.. I don't know, I really can't say anything there.
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Old 04-21-2005, 12:37 PM   #45
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Yes, Bouguereau is the correct spelling - sorry, I don't know where I got that from or perhaps I'm just a bit dyslexic .... Anyway, it didn't change a great lot when searching for him on French webpages and in the encyclopedia there was only three lines.

Let me just add that it's not that I actually dislike this artist - it is more that I don't like the Art Renewal Center for which he seems to be the biggest idol. I would think that meeting in the middle of the road would be reasonable. Worship Bouguereau a little less and hate Picasso a little less too.

Anyway, this discussion about modern art - I get the impression that for most people, modern art is Picasso, Warhol and Pollock and that's almost about all there is to it. That's completely unfair. The 20th century had so many completely different styles. You can love some of them and hate others, but you can't just put all in the same box.

All periods of art should be sources of inspiration which I'm sure they are anyway unconsciously or not.

Some artists though seem to be much more popular with CG artists than outside the CG world - that's perhaps worth thinking about.
 
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