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Old 06-11-2008, 09:53 PM   #16
MarkusM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beansnrice
Which brings me to my question. How did the harmony and fluidity in Panda Kung Fu rise from the way the staff approached the cinimatography and editing? I felt that the timing and balance of jokes, action and acting was very effective throughout the movie. To quote Ooguay; "There are no accidents."


Hi Marcellus, thanks. A lot.

Wow. Thanks for noticing these choices. This is a huge question, and I am not sure I can do it justice in this forum, without visual aids and lots of hand waving, but I will try to answer it. Let me know if I understood the question wrong. It's a pretty open question.

From the very get go of the film we wanted to emulate a feeling of asian art in every way possible in the film, at the same time we wanted to bring the kind of excitement that we loved from the kung fu films to it. We knew we needed to marry all of this in to a single cohesive art piece. John Stevenson, one of our directors, spoke at length about the films that he wanted to bring inspiration from, especially Kurosawa, and he wanted us to think that we were making an epic film as if it was one of his, but with a Jack Black... or as he puts it, Jerry Lewis, character in the middle of it.

The start of this process was a inspiring amount of hard work from our story team, where they under Head of Story Jennifer Yuh Nelson's guidance, captured the essence of the film, and when our editor Clare Knigh worked her magic on it set the stage for what we would go and shoot. Head of Layout Yong Duk Hjun did a great job in translating the story ideas to a filmic version, with an active camera when needed, and a subtle graceful one at other times. Much iteration between Layout department and Editorial allowed us to capture the pacing of the film. When the animation department came online it was time to make sure that the acting can deliver within that pacing, and carefully decide when shots needed to change the established pacing.

For fight scenes, Rodolphe Gueneden, story artist, animator and fight choreographer on the show, took a pass to make sure that the fights are as cool as they can be. He took what Jenn had established and "kicked it up" a notch.

As far as the comedy, that came from the hard work of the directors, the writers and Jenn, working with Clare finding the solutions for the comedy to land, and feel like it belonged in our film. Once we got passed that stage the rest of us to some degree were there to improve it when we could, or at least not kill it. The animation team had a great way of adding great timing to the comedy, and physical comedy where possible.
We did go back and fine tune a lot of shots to get the most out of what we had.

Oogway was a funny character. It's probably not common knowledge, but his design was the first one that we nailed. Nico Marlet had made a great drawing of him, and John Stevenson pointed to it and said, that's it. We always knew what the character needed to bring to the story, but I have to say that the choices that animation made and the delivery that Randall Duk Kim brough to him, really took him to a new level. I also love the fact that he sets up the film, and then bows out, leaving all these tormented characters to deal with what is happening. I know people who do that in real life.

The moment with Po that you describe is an example of what we sought a lot in the action sequences of the film. We didn't want to disconnect the audience from the story that was being told during the action, so we paid particular attention to adding "character moments" to let us stay with the characters emotionally. It's a tricky balancing act when you also want to build the energy. The most difficult part is that we all watch these sequences over and over again during the course of making them, and we lose somewhat the ability to evaluate if we've found the right balance. I hope your comment means we did, most of the time.

Believability is an important aspect of why the fight scenes retained their sense of pacing as well. Because the characters look and feel like they are there, and that they will die if they fall off the bridge, we don't move into a "super hero" place where anything can happen. The camera is more believable as a result, it is grounded to the world most of the time, and when we do push the camera to do something "unique" it really makes a visual impact. It actually broadens what we can have the audience experience in a way.
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Old 06-11-2008, 10:23 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Dowswell

My questions are always about what advice you would give to a struggling one man company that has been on the go for five years, a man who wont quit at directing short films but who hasnít really shown the world them yet. Danny Boyle told me what I already knew, that the most important thing is persistence. But I only got to ask him one question.



Michael, thank you. I have to say that I had a bit of a chuckle as I read your first paragraph. I didn't really break into the indutry in 2003. People in the industry in Europe actually wondered what happened to me in 2003 when I suddenly seemed to disappear.

Before I came to Dreamworks my main focus had been mostly commercials. I was fortunate to be part of and responsible for building the most successful CG commercial department in the world between 2000-2003 at Framestore CFC in London, UK, before Dreamworks approached me. And then I went "quiet", as I started on Kung Fu Panda in August 2003.

I am not sure I can really help you with great advise, but I can tell you what advise I've been given or I've heard people "in high places" give.

You have to have something to show. A completed film. If you don't, you are only one more person who says that can do it without anything to show that they can, and there's a lot of those people around.

My personal approach is that the best way to learn how to create great visual stories in any format is by doing the work or being part of doing the work. Especially doing great work. I am not afraid of admitting that I am very ambitious. Not just on a personal level, but also in context of the project and the company I work at. I want us to succeed beyond what we think is possible. That's what drives me to do what I do.

I've been fortunate to work with some great directors in my career, and I've been fortunate enough to have been able to direct projects myself, thereby getting to practise what I've learned. I use all these opportunities as my own continuing education. I work closely with people I respect to learn from what they are doing. I ask them for input on what I am doing. The artists and film makers I work with are very generous with their time. I learn a lot from them.

Danny Boyle is a very smart man, and yes, persistence and patience is a must. However, you also have to create your own luck in this industry.

Best of luck.
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Last edited by MarkusM : 06-12-2008 at 08:05 AM.
 
Old 06-12-2008, 08:31 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeant
Thanks for the reply. I have few more if you dont mind

-my interest is in character modeling and texturing. Currently I am focusing my study in areas like modeling(of course), zbrushing, texturing and also learning the maya utilities and HDRI rendering. Any other things to look out for? In movie industry, is there a special group of artist whose job is only texturing? Or the modeler is the texture artist as well?

-without paper qualification, does it affect the employment chances in 3d indus? What about those who are self-taught? Do they have equal chance of getting in the business?

-for someone who are new in 3d, will his/her age be an issue? Say in mid 30s.

-you have been in the indus all these years, do you still face things/movie effects that requested by the director which you have no idea how to start with? That is totally new and almost no one has done it b4? If so, how do you solve it? Do you usually lock yourself in a room and have personal brain storming first?

That 's all and thank you for taking your time reading this.

Freeant


Hi Freeant,

So many of your questions are really dependent on where you are. I am sure the industry is quite different in different countries. I've seen a huge difference between Stockholm, London and Los Angeles. What I do know for certain is that the reel/portfolio is always more important than an educational degree to land "a job" in our industry. I do think that higher education is often a necessity for certain types of jobs in our industry. But even for those jobs, I've seen people who are great at continuing their learning at work be successful.

Connections always help in finding interesting opportunitites. I've dragged with me a few of my friends that I worked with back in Stockholm in the mid 90's. "Forcing" them to work with me on projects. That's usually lead to them finding other interesting work around the globe.

I don't know about the age aspect honestly. I do remember hiring a CG modeler who had a long successful background in physical modeling. I was mostly interested in his talent. Age wasn't a factor on my part.

At smaller houses modeling and surfacing is often done by the same people. Especially for "simpler" surfacing, the normal paint based work. For more complex surfacing even smaller houses usually have Technical Directors who can "solve" a look. It is useful knowing both as you actually become a stronger and more useful modeler if you can anticipate the UV needs of surfacing, and you are more flexible casting wise.

At larger studios we tend to have people specialize since there's simply so much through put that it makes sense to use people for their special skills.

Solving "the unknown" is always challanging and fun, frankly. Usually once somebody pitches the idea I have a vague idea of how I would approach it. But rather than decide there and then, I put a group of talented people in a room and we brainstorm on the approach. It's a great way of getting started and motivated. If we don't get anywhere in the brainstorming I usually pitch my vague approach, and that either goes two ways the group latches on to it (out of pure desperation) and we build on it, or... they hate it and ridicule me for the rest of the brainstorm session, while we come up with a better approach. Either way it allows us to not get stuck.

The most important aspect after picking an approach is to stay fresh and evaluate it properly as you go. Stay flexible enough to adapt when you learn more about what you are trying to accomplish. Because you will as soon as you start actually working on solving it.
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Old 06-12-2008, 11:43 PM   #19
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Dear Markus,

Well eight years to get to where you are now is a incredible achievement. What did you do before 2000 if you donít mind me asking?

Somebody once told me that I wouldnít get anywhere if I didnít move to London, but I think it greatly depends on what are you doing. Surely, as a animation director I can live anywhere in the world?...itís all about money at the end of the day...if I had the money (which IĎm sure I will get one day), I could use the internet as a tool...a communication tool to organise and co-ordinate a team...the best of the best.

Iím sorry if my letter of questions seemed a bit extreme and a bit of a rantÖ(Iíd not slept in a while) I think that it was too many questions, and possibly too personal...also, the questions are probably really very silly...itís just that I wish more than anything to understand how you progress in this industry to obtain the post...the post of a paid Director of feature films.

The only thing I have to hold onto at the moment (in a cruel sea) is to just simply keep making animations, enjoy making animations and hope that one day Iím happy enough to send one out to a film competition or some of TV channels here in the UK.

I absolutely love making films and am very, very lucky / privileged to be sat here making them, perhaps these are the best times of my life?...my only wish is to obtain a larger audience who can see them.

I just spoke to a friend last night about Kung Fu Panda, he loved it man, absolutely loved it...and I can tell you, heís very hard to please. He doesnít like the Shrek movies but said this was a very pleasant surprise. This makes me want to see the film even more now!

Mike


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Old 06-13-2008, 02:16 AM   #20
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Hi Markus,

Again, thx for the reply.

I have watched Panda KungFu on Wed for the second time, and this time around, paying more attention to the cg. One thing to ask regarding the story, can you tell me what is a "Wuxi Finger"? (not sure if I get the spelling right for dat) The one that used by the Shifu Master and Panda(to finally defeat Tai Long) with the finger thingie? Is it the greatest power of all? Will Panda KungFu 2 (hopefully)going to review this special move?

Freeant
 
Old 06-13-2008, 10:13 AM   #21
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Hi Markus,

I haven't actually watch the movie, but from the reviews, I know I gotta.

My question is probably a little off.
1) As an effect supervisor, what is really your job description especially in KungFu Panda?
Do you also handle some frames yourself?

2) How do you handle your staff that just "can't get it right" (if there were such thing in this project)

3) Have you ever feel frustrated being one?

Thanks for your time,
Iwan
 
Old 06-13-2008, 11:07 PM   #22
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Hi Markus!

I've been anticipated to watch this movie for a long while. But sad news is the movie dosent realease in my area so have to wait for the DVD release. But from all the trailers i see this movie looks damn fine. The animation looks outstanding!!

Down to business. I was wondering how the Fur is handeled in the movie? Could you please give us some tech-specs on that. I mean I dont want you to spill out all the secrets but just the basic ideas, like what kind of program/plug-ins are used, how the fun is composited (or rendered with the character) a little on the fur lighting...things like that...

THank you so much and best of wishes for the upcomming weeks!
 
Old 06-13-2008, 11:57 PM   #23
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Hi Markus!

First of all congratulations on completing work on Kung Fu Panda. I'm eagerly anticipating seeing your handiwork on the big screen!

Two questions for you Markus, if you'd be so kind,

In the article it mentions a procedural parenting tool for the bridge sequence....could you go a little more into this?

What was your favourite challenge of the show, and why?

Character rigging is an particular interest of mine, so if there is any chance Nathan can make a quick stop here that would be fantastic. I'm keen to learn as much as possible about the characters in Kung Fu Panda. They look great.

Enjoy your well deserved vacation!

David Brooks
 
Old 06-14-2008, 08:15 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeant
Hi Markus,

Again, thx for the reply.

I have watched Panda KungFu on Wed for the second time, and this time around, paying more attention to the cg. One thing to ask regarding the story, can you tell me what is a "Wuxi Finger"? (not sure if I get the spelling right for dat) The one that used by the Shifu Master and Panda(to finally defeat Tai Long) with the finger thingie? Is it the greatest power of all? Will Panda KungFu 2 (hopefully)going to review this special move?

Freeant


I think you'll have to wait for more stories to be told in the Kung Fu Panda universe to learn about the wushu finger hold and how Po defeated Tai Lung.

;-)
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Old 06-14-2008, 12:52 PM   #25
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Hello Markus,
I saw the prevue of Kung Fu Panda many weeks ago,and I was look forward to this new release,and finaly,abusolutely,You have take us a big apleasantly surprise!I am amazed by the whole thing,especially the style of the colour and the design of scenes,the character too!
I am a chinese girl,I admire you and your team for a sticking to this project just like Panda sticking to study Kung Fu !and what i want to say is,not merely westerner like it but also we easterner too!
About the story ,I have a little advise,in the end of the story,Si Fu asked his apprentices to evacuate the residents,and Si Fu fight a lone battle with Tai Lang,At this point,Any one of chinese people will not leave someone along to fight,hehe~_~,just a personal adcise.However,I understand that the whole story is most important thing.

In the end,I wish you and your family have a mirable ,romantic ,pleasant trip!and then Olympic Games will be hold in BeiJing soon,here with my pleasant I invite you and everyone come to china,to join to the gaiety of the festival with us!

 
Old 06-14-2008, 03:31 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusM
I think you'll have to wait for more stories to be told in the Kung Fu Panda universe to learn about the wushu finger hold and how Po defeated Tai Lung.

;-)


"Kung Fu Panda Universe"? Is it part of the Making Of in the dvd's feature or......Could you tell us where to get it or when it will be released?

Is your next project lining up already?
 
Old 06-14-2008, 10:22 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CtrlAltDel
Hi Markus,

I haven't actually watch the movie, but from the reviews, I know I gotta.

My question is probably a little off.
1) As an effect supervisor, what is really your job description especially in KungFu Panda?
Do you also handle some frames yourself?

2) How do you handle your staff that just "can't get it right" (if there were such thing in this project)

3) Have you ever feel frustrated being one?

Thanks for your time,
Iwan


Hi Iwan,

I hope you like the film when you get to see it.

As the Visual Effects Supervisor for the show my job is to over look the whole production to make sure the Directors get the film they want, as I am responsible for the technology, process and work flow choices we make, and I am also responsible for the look of the film together with the Production Designer.

The Production Designer and I work closely together, and we also work closely with Head of Story, Head of Character Animation, and Head of Layout. Since a CG animated feature film is such a large production, I have several department heads working for me that focus on the different aspects of the film - Modeling Supervisor, Surfacing Supervisor, Character TD Supervisor, Department TD Supervisor, Head of Effects, Character Effects Supervisor, Final Layout Supervisor, Matte Painting Supervisor, and CG Supervisors (5 of them, and they are Lighting Sequence Supervisors). Each of the department heads collaborate with their production supervisors who are crucial part of making it possible.

Don't use these as official numbers since I am guessing that we probably grew to around 150-ish people at the peak, and around 250 people probably touched the film in some way. Add on top of that technology resources, and I am not even sure how to count them.

I suppose what I am tryng to say is that it's a big operation and my producers want me to not be hands on. That being said, I was hands on at times, trying to solve specific creative challanges that we were having. Most of the time it was previs'ing something that the directors thought they wanted but weren't sure would work. I would use Photoshop and After Effects to quickly whip something together. Often collaborating with the Production Designer. Sometimes working over moving material out of lighting. It was in an effort to create a clear target for the artist to work towards.

At the very end of production I also started doing some, what I call, "extreme paint fixing". We have a great paint fix department. There was a couple of times when the solutions to make the image better was about changing the content rather than fixing it. For those it was easier for me to do the work. The paint fix artists were kind enough to then go on top of what I did to make it look good.

I don't recommend being hands on in my role particularly since my main focus should be to make sure that everyone else is on track and successful. However, I like doing the work, so it was fun.

When you have someone who can't quite get there it really becomes a management challange. Is it a casting problem - can you only cast certain types of shots to this person. Can the person with training reach where they need to be, is the supervisor not mentoring the person enough. Is the person in the role they should be in. In a large company like ours we are always dealing with people's career aspirations. It's part of what makes it fun for us, to see people grow. We were fortunate to see people grow on our show, starting in one position and transitioning to the next during the show. It's very fulfilling, but not always painless. As I said, it's part of what we do as a studio.

In general on our show we mostly had people that "out did themselves", everyone stepped up and delivered. That's why I am so proud of the final film. I can see everyone's passion and dedication on screen. The film was by no means "easy" to accomplish.

Let me see, the question is - have I ever been frustrated by "not being able to get it right"? Is that correct?
There was a project back in London where I was particularly frustrated. Getting it right wasn't coming easy. We were chasing something in Jonathan Glazer's head and I couldn't put my finger on it. I spent several days and nights working a shot of an exploding wall (it was a jeans commercial) and it didn't look right. I was trying to use procedural techniques to make the work a little more easy to handle, as we were going to have another 26 explosions in the spot. The turn around of a shot was painfully slow. I think on my tenth try when I finally gave up and started hand key framing the debris was when the look came together. Another ten iterations and the shot was done. That was really frustrating. Not just for me, but the other people working with me, waiting for me to solve my part.

I've been supervising for a long time and I've been doing hands on work during this time on the projects as well, and I suppose when you have the dual role, failure isn't really an option. You simple have to figure out what the director or client wants, and deliver. Listening skills are as important as your artistic ability.
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Old 06-14-2008, 10:34 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overcontrast

Down to business. I was wondering how the Fur is handeled in the movie? Could you please give us some tech-specs on that. I mean I dont want you to spill out all the secrets but just the basic ideas, like what kind of program/plug-ins are used, how the fun is composited (or rendered with the character) a little on the fur lighting...things like that...


I am not sure how detailed you want me to get. I suppose at some point I may need to ask one of my CG Supervisors for help.

We have our own propriatery software for surfacing and rendering. Most of the fur in our film was map based fur generation, meaning that surfacing controlled the fur look by painting attributes in maps applied to the underlying surface (the UVs), which in return controlled the look of the fur.

We had some fur, like eyebrows for instance, where we need to give character animators control over the motion of the fur. For these instances, modeling modeled guide hairs that drive the fur motion. Surfacing used the guide hairs to create the final look of the fur.

The final fur geometry gets generated at render time through the fur shader.

Is that enough detail?

It's not terribly revolutionary. The look of the fur really comes together as surfacing spends time setting up multiple "layers" of fur and create an underlying surface look that works with the fur density. For a lot of the characters we used a dense short fur layer, and a less dense longer fur layer to create specific design details that allowed for a more natural look to the characters. However, all hero characters had their own solutions.

An interesting detail is that we kept short fur every where to avoid dynamic simulated fur as much as possible. For instance, Monkey's cheek volume are actually geometry with a thin, short fur layer.

In lighting the lighters have control over affecting the fur alone, or the skin as well. We have shadow techniques that allow us inter shadowing between hairs. Depending on the sequence look the lighters used different tools in our lighting tool box to achieve the look.

We tend to render our characters in a single render pass. One of the reasons we have an interactive lighting tool is to allow lighters to do just that, work on a character a as whole.
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Old 06-14-2008, 10:50 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by d-brooks
In the article it mentions a procedural parenting tool for the bridge sequence....could you go a little more into this?

What was your favourite challenge of the show, and why?

Character rigging is an particular interest of mine, so if there is any chance Nathan can make a quick stop here that would be fantastic. I'm keen to learn as much as possible about the characters in Kung Fu Panda. They look great.


Hi David, thanks.

We used a procedural parenting method to put the character back on the bridge after the effects artist ran their dynamics pass on the bridge, which created an offset between the key frame animated character and the bridge. This automated parenting took care of most cases, in the rest the character animators had to go back in and adjust the character animation.

Favorite challange. Hm. Real difficult. There are so many aspects from my point of view that allows for a show to come together.

The rope bridge is up there. I thought that was a great addition to the film. We really needed an exciting fight sequence and I was very happy that I could work closely with the team and find a solution that allowed us to get it made for the film. It's not always easy to expect people to work outside of their comfort zone, but when I did on this sequence, everyone stepped up to be counted, and it shows. I think the animation department really set a new bar, and the effects department really made their work take center stage. I was really impressed by everyone.

The other creative aspect was the look of the film. It was a lot of hard work getting the look of the film worked out. I am so happy with the way it worked out, and I am so thankful to have had some of the most amazing artist helping us figure it out early on... Dave, Mark, Betsy, Joanna, Jeff, Greg, Archie, ... the list goes on. I was impressed with their patience and percistense to deliver great work as we went through the look development process.

The unsung heros of our show where the Technical Directors. Greg Wuller and his team delivered consistently heroic work in making our tools and pipeline work for us. Without them we wouldn't have a show even close to what we have today.

If you ask some questions about the rigging of our characters I will forward the Qs to Nathan for some feedback, unless I know how to answer the questions myself.
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Last edited by MarkusM : 06-14-2008 at 11:08 PM.
 
Old 06-15-2008, 07:50 AM   #30
Hellgaurdian
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Hi markus, Great to c u here.. but dreamworks fans in India r greatly disappointed.. The movie hasn't released here and i dont think it ll release here for another month and a half.. so v have to wait a long time.. But its ok.. Coz i am sure the movie is worth the wait.. anyway i want to ask u abt the aspect of the movie that interested me the most when i saw the trailers.. the backgrounds are mindblowing... just amazing.. i want to ask u how u went abt choosing wat kind of backgrounds u wanted to use and who were involved in creating such great and inspiring work.. thanx for all ur time and sharing with us ur experiences and great advice..
 
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