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Old 06-08-2008, 11:25 PM   #1
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Meet the Artist :: Markus Manninen



Markus Manninen
VFX Supervisor
DreamWorks

Markus Manninen grew up in Stockholm, Sweden, and later went to Kungliga Tekniska Hogskolan (Royal Institute of Technology), Stockholm (M.Sc.E.E) and the University of Massachusetts in Amherst. While studying in Massachusetts, Manninen was introduced to CG animation and soon developed a passion for it; he continued to pursue his career choice when he returned to Sweden. His first job in the field was as a project manager for the Media Laboratory at Stockholm’s Royal Institute of Technology.

He then began working as a freelance animator in his hometown, soon launching his own company, the animation studio Lightsite AB. He then segued to the position of CG supervisor at the studio Filmtecknarna. Relocating to London, Manninen went to work for Framestore as head of 3D commercials.

His first motion picture credit is for the vampire/werewolf thriller “Underworld,” serving as a digital effects artist. He also worked on the animated film “Over the Hedge” as CG supervisor and consulted during pre-production of “Bee Movie.” “Kung Fu Panda” is Manninen’s first film for DreamWorks and is now in its first week of release.

For a good read about the production of Kung Fu Panda, go to the Feature story on CGSociety.

To talk to the man himself, please feel free to post your questions and comments.

Please make a warm welcome to CGTalk’s Meet the Artist, Markus Manninen.
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Last edited by PaulHellard : 06-09-2008 at 12:52 PM.
 
Old 06-09-2008, 12:11 AM   #2
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Hello Markus, hope you're doing well and congrats on your success. I wanted to ask you, what does it take to start your own CG business? What are the major challenges within that?

Cheers
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Old 06-09-2008, 08:25 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HellBoy
Hello Markus, hope you're doing well and congrats on your success. I wanted to ask you, what does it take to start your own CG business? What are the major challenges within that?


Hi HellBoy, and thank you. I am very proud of the film and the way the crew worked together to deliver it. It was a great experience. To sweeten the situation I got a phone call from Jeffrey Katzenberg (!) yesterday saying the film is estimated to hit $60m which is a fantastic number. I hope that means the audience likes the film as much as we did working on it. I am off on a LONG vacation now, having worked on the film for 4 years and 9 months, so yes... I am doing really well. :-)

What does it take to start your own CG business. Hm. Interesting question. I am not sure I am equiped to answer it fully. My own experience starting a small animation studio was based on the [now loking back] naive idea that there was a better way of working than what was done else where in Stockholm at the time. I did learn a lot about how difficult it is to build a customer base and how to work with clients. The portion of my time spent doing creative work vs. looking for the next project made me look closer at the work flow and pipeline. Lessons that I was able to use in my career since. What became apparent to me at the time was that delivering the projects was the "easy" part of the equation, and creating opportunities and building the customer base are the areas where one needs to do more research and potentially find the right partnerships or relationships to build a successful business around.

If you do decide to try, make sure you can survive for a while, start when you have a few projects lines up, and the best of luck to you. There aren't enough good people willing to try.

Markus
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Old 06-09-2008, 01:27 PM   #4
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Hello Markus!

Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions. Congratulations on completing the film! Taking #1 this weekend ain't too shabby eh? hehehe. I admit that I haven't gotten the chance to see it but it is on my list before MGS4 releases later this week and will completely take over my life.

Anyway to my question...

For the last few years I've noticed a vast improvement in facial animations with characters as well as overall fluidity in their movements (I was very impressed in how Over the Hedge turned out). How much of motion capture technology was used in the film, especially in any of the fighting scenes?
 
Old 06-09-2008, 05:22 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkusM
Hi HellBoy, and thank you. I am very proud of the film and the way the crew worked together to deliver it. It was a great experience. To sweeten the situation I got a phone call from Jeffrey Katzenberg (!) yesterday saying the film is estimated to hit $60m which is a fantastic number. I hope that means the audience likes the film as much as we did working on it. I am off on a LONG vacation now, having worked on the film for 4 years and 9 months, so yes... I am doing really well. :-)

What does it take to start your own CG business. Hm. Interesting question. I am not sure I am equiped to answer it fully. My own experience starting a small animation studio was based on the [now loking back] naive idea that there was a better way of working than what was done else where in Stockholm at the time. I did learn a lot about how difficult it is to build a customer base and how to work with clients. The portion of my time spent doing creative work vs. looking for the next project made me look closer at the work flow and pipeline. Lessons that I was able to use in my career since. What became apparent to me at the time was that delivering the projects was the "easy" part of the equation, and creating opportunities and building the customer base are the areas where one needs to do more research and potentially find the right partnerships or relationships to build a successful business around.

If you do decide to try, make sure you can survive for a while, start when you have a few projects lines up, and the best of luck to you. There aren't enough good people willing to try.

Markus


Thanks for the reply Markus.
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Old 06-09-2008, 06:42 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRomero
Hello Markus!

Thanks for taking the time to answer some questions. Congratulations on completing the film! Taking #1 this weekend ain't too shabby eh? hehehe. I admit that I haven't gotten the chance to see it but it is on my list before MGS4 releases later this week and will completely take over my life.

Anyway to my question...

For the last few years I've noticed a vast improvement in facial animations with characters as well as overall fluidity in their movements (I was very impressed in how Over the Hedge turned out). How much of motion capture technology was used in the film, especially in any of the fighting scenes?


Hi Lloyd,

I am actually very happy to be part of this QnA. I've found these forum topics to be the most enjoyable aspects of CG Society myself, connecting artist around the world directly to artist who just have finished a project (one everyone have or can see and talk about) and can as a result give some insight into them. I wanted to see more of it. I try to be an active member here as much as I can. And since I finally had a project to talk to everyone about it was the perfect opportunity. Let me know what you think of the film when you get to see it.

Facial animation is huge. HUGE. Not only the capability of what we can do with designed characters. Giving them structure and movement that satisfy the design esthetic as well as the animation style. It's not trivial. It's an art in itself. We have amazing character technical directors at Dreamworks (yes Nathan Loofbourrow, I am talking about you and your team...). For facial setup Mariette Marinus really set the "tone" for the film working with Head of Character Animation Dan Wagner. Mariette did some of the most important facial setups on the show. We tend to task facial setup and body setup separately to make the schedule of a character as tight as possible. If you have more specific questions regarding rigging, maybe beyond what I can answer, and if Nathan's not here on CG Society, I'll see if I can get him to participate, either by signing up or through me. Ultimattely what really makes the difference is making sure that the character animators have enough time and ability to execute great facial animation. Ours did, have the time and the ability.

We didn't use any motion capture on Kung Fu Panda. It's not something we ever even talked about. For several purposes. We wanted to make an animated film with very designed motion. It was important for us that our characters did not look like humans dressed in animal costumes, and it was double important that they didn't move that way either. For motion reference our animators used the tools of the trade, video tape themselves or others doing moves, go through films for movements that they can study and understand, and our animators also did "workshops" where they got to practise martial arts to understand why the movements are executed certain ways. But always it was Dan Wagner's job with the animation supervisors to show the directors the motion in the style of our film.

From the very beginning of the project we decided that the animation of our characters was the most important aspect of the film that we had to deliver on. Not only as far as action, even thou that was the initial driver for the conversation, but also for the emotional animation, to carry the story of the film, which is very emotional, based on these awkward relationships between all our main characters.

I hope that satisfies you question. I guess I could've just said "no, we didn't use mocap". Erhm.
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Last edited by MarkusM : 06-09-2008 at 06:46 PM.
 
Old 06-10-2008, 02:04 AM   #7
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Hi Markus

Hi Markus,

I watched Kungfu Panda on last Monday here in Malaysia and planning to watch for second time this Wed. The movie is great and I am amazed by the whole thing, the Sifu master looks great with the fur and animation is awesome, lighting, I love it, jokes I dig, opening scence I enjoy it, character design sweet...the list goes on and on. Congrat !

One question from me ;D :
I have been involved in game industry for about 9 years, in 2d concept. Since last year, I have resigned and started my study in 3d. Is almost 1 year now. Could you give any advice for me who going to venture into 3d soon? ( I am studying and at the same time building my 3d portfolio)
My work portfolio is: www.1000tentacles.com Could you give some comment if possible?
Thank you so much and it is really amazing to be able to talk to you! (Never thought that it is possible, )

Freeant
 
Old 06-10-2008, 06:58 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freeant
One question from me ;D :
I have been involved in game industry for about 9 years, in 2d concept. Since last year, I have resigned and started my study in 3d. Is almost 1 year now. Could you give any advice for me who going to venture into 3d soon? ( I am studying and at the same time building my 3d portfolio)
My work portfolio is: www.1000tentacles.com Could you give some comment if possible?
Thank you so much and it is really amazing to be able to talk to you! (Never thought that it is possible, )


Thanks Freeant,

If I can find the time later I will look at your portfolio and contact you privately.

Starting in the business now. I suppose there's a few things I always tell students that have all the energy in the world but don't understand why they can't get the job they want, be smart, be patient and work hard.

I would say that you should research what the 3D industry where you are is looking for in entry position. That's your way in. Once you are in, it's up to you to show the company, and frankly the industry, what you can do. Computer graphics is an endless learning opportunity (or curse, depending on how you see it). We are all constantly learning new software, new methods, new tricks, new aspects of the medium. Your first job should be about getting your foot in.

When you build your portfolio or reel, make sure you at least have one kick-ass piece of creation that truly shows your potential as an employee. Doesn't have to be a "full" CG piece - modeling, surfacing, rigging, animation, lighting, rendering - but a piece that shows off one aspect of computer graphics. That allows people to see how you can be useful day one.

The other aspect for me that is important from the very beginning is self-awareness. If you've done creative work in another medium successfully you probably master this already. My point is that even if you don't have the greatest reel on the planet, if you can point out what you would have liked to have done better, it shows off that you understand the situation in which you created in (schedules are always a reality) and shows the company that you are able to do better work given the opportunity to. Another aspect of this is also understanding your own strengths. If you are a natural modeller, but want to be an animator, but your animation skills are only so-so, but you show a lot of your animation because that's the job you want, well...
You'd be surprised how often I saw this scenario back in Europe.

And when you do land that job, and you have experienced people around you, think of that like another education. Learn more aspects of computer graphics from them. Evolve. I don't think I've met many artist in our industry that don't like helping out someone who is passionate about learning. And the best artists are the ones who keep learning through out their career.

If you have strong 2D skills, you may have additional things to offer a company in being able to help with pitches and pre-production. That may be something to research in your local industry.

I hope that helped some. If you have follow up questions, shoot.

Cheers, Markus
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Old 06-10-2008, 11:30 AM   #9
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Thanks for the reply. I have few more if you dont mind

-my interest is in character modeling and texturing. Currently I am focusing my study in areas like modeling(of course), zbrushing, texturing and also learning the maya utilities and HDRI rendering. Any other things to look out for? In movie industry, is there a special group of artist whose job is only texturing? Or the modeler is the texture artist as well?

-without paper qualification, does it affect the employment chances in 3d indus? What about those who are self-taught? Do they have equal chance of getting in the business?

-for someone who are new in 3d, will his/her age be an issue? Say in mid 30s.

-you have been in the indus all these years, do you still face things/movie effects that requested by the director which you have no idea how to start with? That is totally new and almost no one has done it b4? If so, how do you solve it? Do you usually lock yourself in a room and have personal brain storming first?

That 's all and thank you for taking your time reading this.

Freeant
 
Old 06-10-2008, 05:45 PM   #10
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Hey Markus
I just got home from the cinema and I just have to say I definitely enjoyed Kung Fu Panda. I definitely enjoyed the art direction, taking styles from classic chinese arts.

I loved the 2D Opening and Ending sequences and felt it was a great nod to classic 2d animation. is there anything you could perhaps share about the opening and closing credit?
 
Old 06-10-2008, 07:37 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D`Cloud
I just got home from the cinema and I just have to say I definitely enjoyed Kung Fu Panda. I definitely enjoyed the art direction, taking styles from classic chinese arts.

I loved the 2D Opening and Ending sequences and felt it was a great nod to classic 2d animation. is there anything you could perhaps share about the opening and closing credit?


Thanks Dustin,

The "2D" sequences were all done a little differently.

The opening dream sequence was setup by the art department of the film who worked closely with Head of Story and Dream Sequence Director Jennifer Yuh Nelson to layout the shots. The art department painted layered photoshop files of each environment and key poses of the characters "on model". These files were then given to uber-animator (yes, I think of him this way) James Baxter and his team to use as a bases for their animation. Depending on the shot they either animated the scene traditionally and composited the shot in After Effects (using the layers from Adobe Photoshop), or in some shots they also used the layered elements (characters) and did limited After Effects animation to make the characters "come to life".

The end credit was a little different. An outside graphics company was used to design the moving segment of the credits, and then animators from our show (who did the 3D animation) actually animated the character moments in 2D and handed that to James Baxter's team to complete and give back to the motion graphics artists.

I am not sure what else I can say except that this was an idea close to all of our hearts in giving the film a unique sensibility. Thank you for highlighting it and enjoying it.
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:16 AM   #12
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Markus,

I finally got to see the movie. Superb! Truly an enjoyable film for both children and adults. I can really tell that the entire team enjoyed working on it and that every scene was a gem.

This is the most character animation I've seen in a fully 3d-animated film. Another thing that impressed me (other than the character animation) was the way the characters interacted with the structures around them, such as collisions and how the structures crumbled.

Two scenes that stuck out the most for me was the bridge and the final fight scene. What did you guys to do achieve those type of effects?

Hey again thanks for taking the time out Markus, your team did a hell of an amazing job making this film.
 
Old 06-11-2008, 02:43 AM   #13
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I found that a big, fun part of Kung Fu Panda was that the animated nature of the film allowed for very close and dynamic cinimatography. Often times you used shots which are impossible in live action. Many times I thought that Kung Fu Hustle wished it could have been animated to have some of the shots that you used.

The kung fu had a vivid sense of weight, balance and dynamic energy. There was such a consistent level of fun from the various cause and effect moves such as Po rebounding off a pillar from Tai Lung's attack as a counter attack.


Other times, however; you didn't and there was still and interesting sensitivity there. Take the turtle Ooguay for instance. He was a terrific character who would simply illuminate what was happening in the plot. His slow, deliberate, wise path was well very shot and timed. He provided much need stability for the plot and the camera. It was a peaceful contrast to all of the bouncy, wild action.

Later, as Po grew into his power during the last fight he bounced Tai Lung into the sky off of his belly. While watching Tai Lung disappear into the sky, Po had a personal moment of reflection as he scanned the clouds. By holding that shot for a split second longer, the audience was able to stop thinking of the conflict for a moment and were ablt to take in the simple beauty of the environment.

Which brings me to my question. How did the harmony and fluidity in Panda Kung Fu rise from the way the staff approached the cinimatography and editing? I felt that the timing and balance of jokes, action and acting was very effective throughout the movie. To quote Ooguay; "There are no accidents."
 
Old 06-11-2008, 07:51 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LRomero
This is the most character animation I've seen in a fully 3d-animated film. Another thing that impressed me (other than the character animation) was the way the characters interacted with the structures around them, such as collisions and how the structures crumbled.

Two scenes that stuck out the most for me was the bridge and the final fight scene. What did you guys to do achieve those type of effects?


Thanks Lloyd, I am glad it lived up to "the hype".

We did do some special "sauce" in effects on this film. We early on decided that it was crucial for the action to be believe able, have peril, and weight. It influenced Dan and his team in animation a lot. It also made me think about what flexibility we needed to do impacts on the environment.

Based on those discussions we pursued a procedural way of breaking geometry. We are in a NUBS based pipeline, so dividing and converting to polygons have large implications. Our Effects Lead Lawrence Lee developed a fracturing system that allowed us to art direct the breaking heavily. It's mentioned in the CG Society Production Focus article briefly. It allowed us to approach breaking the environment later in the process than usual (you usually need to "pre-plan" where you build for breaking early) which allowed flexibility in animation and layout to stage the coolest possible action. It was tremendeous help from that aspect. It also made it reasonable to use it often as the method retained the surfacing information, even allowing us to animate the fracturing over time as there was no "pop" in going from the unbroken geometry to the broken one. This was used in the "Tai Lung Escapes the Prison" sequence where the bridge at the end crumbles under him (it was a little confusing in the article, sorry about that).

What Lawrence and his team also did was to write a RBD (rigid body dynamics) pipeline taking the broken geometry into Houdini and procedurally running their new RBD solver to create the natural motion and behavior of the pieces there.

Procedural dust and small debris was also developed, I think Nic Pavlov did that working for Lawrence, and that was crucial in adding scale and sense of speed to the events. I just loved seeing this work coming together. And the directors were giddy with excitement when we showed them the first shots. We tried to approach the film as if we were doing an action/effects heavy live action film, but with a limited budget, so we had to be smart about our approaches without sacrificing what we could put on screen to help the story telling. Almost all of the effects in the film are what I tend to call "story driven effects". I spoke lengthy with the directors about being smart about the use of effects to be able to make sure we could spend significant time where it really helped make the film what we wanted it to be, and didn't spend it where it didn't give us true "value".

Where our procdural method wasn't the best approach we had our modeling department do the breaking "manually". Modeling Supervisor Jason Turner and his team did a great job turning that work around. Surfacing Supervisor Wes Burian like wise. Wes and his team also did great work on creating fracture patterns using displacement mapping. In several instances that work allowed us to avoid actual fracturing, and our effects department could simply do some dust and debris on top of the pattern that was revealed in lighting.

For the rope bridge fight scene that was a "collaboration galore" as far as our process goes. When I was first pitched the sequence conceptually half way through production by the producer in the story artist room (yes, it came in late) I was blown away by it and wanted to make sure that we could accomplish it. We had some experience at the company with rope bridges (Shrek) and I felt that we wanted to avoid some of the choices made in the past to focus everyone on doing what they do well, and rather than finding complicated technology solutions for effects to be done in animation, for instance, I felt that we could be smart about our approach and make the two (actually three when you include layout) working closely together during shot production. We started off with a series of meetings where every department was present and we discussed pros and cons in the different choices we could make. This put us all on the same page on the approach. The moving bridge was the key element that drove who did what and when.

Layout decided to use EMO to do their work (we'd slowly been migrating to Maya for action sequences on Kung Fu Panda for layout, a choice that shows after us are adapting). But since we wanted the ambient bridge motion to be the same in layout and animation, they made the choice to be in the same software, which was great. Animation then animated the characters and did "large" bridge motion based on the characters, leaving intricate behavior of the bridge to effects. After effects took their pass on the bridge, the shot was handed back to animation for tweaks based on the final bridge motion.

I think the initial meeting really clued everyone in on how much collaboration would be needed, and this allowed everyone to be comfortable with the process as we went through it. I actually wish every sequence could be as smooth as the rope bridge sequence was once we got going. Great planning allowed for great and smooth execution.

The final battle was, well, just us having fun with everything we'd been hinting at or showing some of through out the film. Now allowing our hero, Po, to be doing it. Breaking a building and running on the destruction (sorry if I am ruining the film for some), playing with noodles, you name it. I won't say more right now. Don't want to give anything away. By this time we were in the crunch to finish the film, but everyone had already been doing the work on other sequences so it ran real well. CG Supervisor Dave Walvoord did a great job of maintaining the calm and focus of bringing it all together in lighting.
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Last edited by MarkusM : 06-11-2008 at 07:57 AM.
 
Old 06-11-2008, 09:14 PM   #15
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Hi Markus,

Firstly congratulations on your success, to break into the industry in 2003 as a digital effects artist and get all the way up to visual effects supervisor on a major feature animation by 2008 is a great achievement.

I love pandas expression and the lighting on the fur is awesome. I’ve not seen the film yet but look forward to it.

My questions are always about what advice you would give to a struggling one man company that has been on the go for five years, a man who wont quit at directing short films but who hasn’t really shown the world them yet. Danny Boyle told me what I already knew, that the most important thing is persistence. But I only got to ask him one question.

I think that there and then, when I say "who hasn’t really shown the world them yet" that is my problem. A huge major problem...and, that here, writing this right now, persistence has to be *thee* most important thing.

I’ve always steered clear of getting a job in the industry and said no to various people who’ve wanted me to work for them...because all I want is to direct my own films, even if it means that I’m going to be eating jam sandwiches until the day they bury me six feet under...it’s what is most important to me.

What I’m finding out now is, that people in the industry tend to say to me as a director…"get a agent"...I’m just wondering and want to ask the questions to you, do you have a agent?...if you do, at what point did you get one?…and...how much importance do you place on a individual getting a agent?...and where does one go to get a really, really good agent?

Somebody told me that one of my major priorities should be to get myself to Comic-Con but I just don’t even know where to start...if I did go to Comic-Con (very big journey) what would I do exactly when I got there?

Thanks in advance

Mike (burnt out independent director)

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