Vue 11 review, First look

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Old 11 November 2012   #1
Vue 11 review, First look

If you interested here is my first look at Vue 11 short review.
http://www.geekatplay.com/wordpress/?p=573
 
Old 11 November 2012   #2
Thanks for posting this review! I've been contemplating purchasing this version to jump in with Vue, and I really like some of the looks you've demonstrated. I especially like you whimsical house over water... very nice!
 
Old 11 November 2012   #3
Thank you.
Also check out his videos , i posted, about particles :
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...3QgQY38a4JH7Yz-
 
Old 11 November 2012   #4
It looks like a very nice release, but their licensing shenanigans have really put me off. Their expensive, mandatory, license server is now time-bombed to only last a year, after which your rendernodes and floating licenses are all expired unless you pay them more money for another year. All xStream rendernodes are also no longer covered by maintenance, so cost 30 USD each to move and again are subject to that annual expiration. None of this was disclosed by e-on prior to the release of version 11.0.

It's a plain cashgrab and I'm massively annoyed by it.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #5
I totally agree. E-on is on a total cash grab with their software and subscription or maintenance plans to upgrade and renting licenses

Their customer service is awful to deal with. Keeps trying to get more money out of me. So frustrated with their service, and their nickel and dime-ing the customer to death that I will never purchase from them again.

Last edited by micalclark : 12 December 2012 at 04:01 AM.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #6
Originally Posted by philstopford: It looks like a very nice release, but their licensing shenanigans have really put me off. Their expensive, mandatory, license server is now time-bombed to only last a year, after which your rendernodes and floating licenses are all expired unless you pay them more money for another year. All xStream rendernodes are also no longer covered by maintenance, so cost 30 USD each to move and again are subject to that annual expiration. None of this was disclosed by e-on prior to the release of version 11.0.

It's a plain cashgrab and I'm massively annoyed by it.


Originally Posted by micalclark: I totally agree. E-on is on a total cash grab with their software and subscription or maintenance plans to upgrade and renting licenses

Their customer service is awful to deal with. Keeps trying to get more money out of me. So frustrated with their service, and their nickel and dime-ing the customer to death that I will never purchase from them again.


Kind a love it how silent topics can become when people get really honest, like you two

Time to consider Terragen. It's not as mature as Vue, perhaps, but a lot cheaper, with working interchangeable file format export/import functions for max/maya/etc. and totally lacking costly maintenance paths or any cashgrabbing tactics.

Regards from Terragen's "geek at play"
 
Old 12 December 2012   #7
Originally Posted by Tangled-Universe: Kind a love it how silent topics can become when people get really honest, like you two

Time to consider Terragen. It's not as mature as Vue, perhaps, but a lot cheaper, with working interchangeable file format export/import functions for max/maya/etc. and totally lacking costly maintenance paths or any cashgrabbing tactics.

Regards from Terragen's "geek at play"


Sadly, e-on has also gone silent up to now. I've been trying to get them to understand what a retrograde step this is, but they are so far insistent that this is in no way a rental model and that one always has the option of downgrading (although their software tells the user that they are not able to activate a previous version of Vue on any machine that has been upgraded....left hand, meet right hand).

So, still pissed.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #8
For anyone wanting to add another tool to their toolbox there is a great offer on Terragen 2 when purchased with Xfrog Plant bundles until the end of December 2012.

Planetside Website:
Planetside

Direct link to offer:
40% Off Xfrog Terragen Bundles
 
Old 12 December 2012   #9
I looking at http://www.e-onsoftware.com/product...finite/?page=15

I see it says standalone, I dont see that it says you need a licence server nor it expires after 1 year.
I'm not doubting what your saying, but please provide a url showing me this.
I was considering vue and or terragen, if what you say is true, it's a big deal to have to pay again each year, and something I'd rather not be a part of.

TIA
 
Old 12 December 2012   #10
Originally Posted by cojam: I looking at http://www.e-onsoftware.com/product...finite/?page=15

I see it says standalone, I dont see that it says you need a licence server nor it expires after 1 year.
I'm not doubting what your saying, but please provide a url showing me this.
I was considering vue and or terragen, if what you say is true, it's a big deal to have to pay again each year, and something I'd rather not be a part of.

TIA


The issue is about floating licenses. You can opt to have a floating license for the main application (xStream, certainly, and I think Infinite supports this as well). That license is delivered by the license server (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/products/license_server/). If you follow that page, and click on requirements/pricing (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/product..._server/?page=1), you will see that there is an up-front charge and then an annual renewal fee.

If you don't pay that renewal fee, e-on tells me that the server stops serving licenses. Any e-on product that needs the license server will then stop working. This is a change from previous versions. The license server used to have a perpetual license. With the version 3.6 update, required for Vue 11, it's time-bombed to 365 days. So, you've been charged up-front for the license server (which is very cheeky) and it will die 365 days later and become worthless without a further payment.

Where this is a problem is rendernodes. which you also pay a decent sum for. These *require* the license server to operate. There's no 'standalone' node-locked option for rendernodes (unlike the main application). So, you will have to pay a yearly fee (currently 200 USD) to keep the renderfarm running even if your main application is standalone (node-locked) and you have no intention of upgrading the software itself.

Note that you can opt for maintenance (http://www.e-onsoftware.com/support...phh#Maintenance). This avoids the annual license server renewal fee and does include the upgrade to the current version of the main application as well, but maintenance does not cover rendernodes any more, so your annual maintenance cost will also go up by n*60 USD where n is the number of nodes you have in use.

In my case, I have three rendernode licenses (I was planning to buy more, but this whole thing has stopped those plans). So, I can pay either :

a. 200 USD every year to keep the license server running and stay with 11.0 (although with no rendernodes upgraded up to now)
b. 339 + (3*60) USD every year to run the latest and greatest.

There's no other option other than downgrading to 10.5 in terms of keeping the renderfarm running without expiration and without additional fees.

I renewed my subscription 23rd October and, at that time, there was no indication e-on would make these changes. I wouldn't have renewed because I didn't budget for an addition ~200 USD to bring forward the rendernodes (although that's not so bad) and I don't want to endorse a rental license model (which is what the license server has become, although e-on claim otherwise).

Let's review the costs so far :

Vue xStream license (1695) + license server (495) + n nodes (n*149)

Those last two expenses will become useless after 365 days unless you pay maintenance (remember to add n*60 to the base maintenance price for the rendernodes!) or the license server renewal charge.

It's become much more expensive and yet you only get to use much of it for one calendar year.

EDIT: e-on told me that upgrade prices for rendernodes were 30 USD, but it looks like they are in fact 60 USD. Updated prices throughout this post.

Last edited by philstopford : 12 December 2012 at 06:52 PM.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #11
Phil

I thank you for a very complete and comprehensive reply, it's really what should be on e-on's page,
I can now understand why you all feel this way.

Thanks again for taking the time to inform potential customers, it makes purchasing or not, a clear a honest choice. Something that I didn't get from the e-on site, as it pardon the pun a bit scattered.

One side question, since you have a licence server, nodes and the application, do they require internet access all the time? As the machines i work on dont. And more interestingly will the licence server still abort with no access? I ask this because then the issue, if not connected, then it clearly has been, as you say 'time bombed'.

And not to tell people that up front, either new or upgraders, is a very bad business decision, re: the feedback here and elsewhere.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #12
Originally Posted by cojam: Phil

I thank you for a very complete and comprehensive reply, it's really what should be on e-on's page,
I can now understand why you all feel this way.

Thanks again for taking the time to inform potential customers, it makes purchasing or not, a clear a honest choice. Something that I didn't get from the e-on site, as it pardon the pun a bit scattered.


e-on software switched all of this without any up-front disclosure, warning or anything else. I am not surprised that they have made if very difficult to understand. I am quite surprised that few seem to care, at least from what I have seen up to now.

Quote: One side question, since you have a licence server, nodes and the application, do they require internet access all the time? As the machines i work on dont. And more interestingly will the licence server still abort with no access? I ask this because then the issue, if not connected, then it clearly has been, as you say 'time bombed'.

And not to tell people that up front, either new or upgraders, is a very bad business decision, re: the feedback here and elsewhere.


No. The server requires activation; that can be done through their web site on a separate machine. An activation code or key file (depending on circumstances) will be displayed or e-mailed to you and that can be then used to activate the software. The floating licenses for the rendernodes follow a similar process.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #13
What I'm not a fan of, now that Vue Infinite costs $200 a year to stay current, is that customers only get $200 worth of upgrades now. And 2/3 of those new features are not 100% implemented. So it's $200 down the drain. More if you are using Vue with 3DS, C4D, LW, Maya, etc where you only have a 2-month window of compatibility before 3DS, C4D, etc gets an update and breaks the Vue connection. Spend another $200 for the fix to re-connect.
 
Old 12 December 2012   #14
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