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Old 05-08-2010, 10:41 PM   #1
Animaticoide
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HOW *NOT* TO RESPOND TO CRITIQUE

Hi, I made this Spinosaurus model, rigged and animated in Blender 2.49b and 2.5. The landscape is an angular Map as a texture in the world.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vQJwjB_XP00
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Last edited by Animaticoide : 05-09-2010 at 01:47 AM.
 
Old 05-09-2010, 03:34 AM   #2
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Just before it falls over, it almost looks like it's dancing.
 
Old 05-09-2010, 05:25 PM   #3
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Spinosaurus

Quote:
Originally Posted by Virtualistic
Just before it falls over, it almost looks like it's dancing.


Well since it is just a demo animation I did not include any other dinosaur to cause distraction.......he does not fall by itself, he is being pushed or attacked by other beast ! A little strugle before falling...If I have had included the fighting beast on the side...the illusion would have been different.
This is when your imagination comes to play!

Thanks for your comment!
 
Old 05-10-2010, 11:30 AM   #4
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hi there, it's a good attempt. but u've missed one of the most important elements... the WEIGHT!!! he doesnt look grounded enough, and actually seems quite floaty... so i couldnt really feel that he was heavy. even the camera shakes werent really adding to the effect. also try adding weight shifts while he walks, that's very important. and even when he falls, he should fall down faster, cuz he's heavy and gravity's also acting on it! i know it's easier to critique than actually animate it! so it's a good attempt, but u can make it WAY better!

nice rig btw!
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Old 05-10-2010, 12:04 PM   #5
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I liked your animation. I am also agree that main point for improvement is animation. Currently dinosaur looks havier than he moves
Overall look is very nice
 
Old 05-10-2010, 03:07 PM   #6
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Dinosaur Weight

Hey Thanks for your comments !

Actually I must disagreed a bit with the weight thing. Actually I have scenes from Dinosaur Animated Documentaries...What I think is a controversial issue. Animation too slow you brain sees it as floaty...too fast mean more center of gravity..better illusion but does not seems like a very heavy creature. Actually I played it back at different speeds and I got different interpretations. Actually the camera shake was too much when he walks at the beginning.

To make your crit more concise and useful....would you point out any Dino Animation out there that you think is right? That would be the best way to go for improvement...I really want to get it prefect, but you know just saying it is not right for me does not help that much at this point.

Cheers
 
Old 05-10-2010, 04:45 PM   #7
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Hey Animaticoide,

Good job so far, but I wouldn't be so quick to disagree with what other people have said. The weight definitely does not feel right, and some parts are a bit slow, the run in particular.

When he is walking, he feels a bit off balance, I think he could be leaning forward a bit more, as there is a lot of weight in that tail from the looks of it. You could get the hips down lower overall, and exaggerate the up and down motion more, he is very heavy so he should really favor the down position and only spend a fraction of the time up, the hips up and down is very even at the moment which kills the weight. Also, when one leg is off the ground his weight really needs to be over his planted leg so I think you could exaggerate that more too.

You could get a more overlap in the upper body, there is still a lot of weight here too and it should be moving up and down like the hips, but delayed a bit, the neck could then counter the movement of the main body and hips to steady the head a little bit, but it should still bob and overlap some. Right now you seem to be steadying the head with the upper body, which doesn't look right. Take a look at elephants or any heavy creature, dinosaurs may not be around but they still had to deal with the laws of physics like creatures today do!

The run is too slow, and he isn't covering enough ground. These are big creatures but they were also built to deal with that weight with thick bones and powerful muscles, so they could still run quite fast! Then, as with the walk you could work on things such as overlap and improving the weight.

Anyway I hope that is helpful,and sorry for the long post! I'm no pro but I'm sure someone more experienced could probably help out more. Well keep it up, you have some really nice animations on youtube.

Cheers,

C
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:04 PM   #8
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You were looking for links to animations earlier I think so here is a link to a video clip from "primeval" of a massive dinosaur like yours in terms of size ( Is gigantosaurus a real dino?? ) - Youtube Link

Check out the walk and run in the first minute, looks pretty convincing if you ask me. A run/walk is not just leg movement, the weight is always much more forward to the point that if your legs were to stop you would fall over, walks and runs are basically controlled falls. I think the animation above shows that pretty well with the head so low and weight more forward....its also a cool aggressive looking pose!
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarand
Hey Animaticoide,



Hey thanks for your explanation. It sounds like something to work on future Dinosaur's animations.
I really appreciate your lines, I will study them.

My point mainly is to get an example in somewhere. You know there is always theories pretty much about any topic, however sometimes taking it to reality seems impossible due to other factor that are not included in the theory....as frame rate playback when creating IPOS. For example in my animation, head and upperbody are shifted....head delays after upper body....but it is not easy to see, not enough frames in between....if you make the shift bigger then jerky movement will show. Unless you get a motion capture package...impossible for Dinosaurs!.....Have you ever though why you can spot CG movement of tigers simulations on Discovery Channel? Well that's a long topic....actually there is a theory but you can't take it to the IPO world. That's why I politely asked for " ANIMATIONS that you consider right"....you won't find any Dinosaur walking perfectly....Also slow motion is an artifact to have more keys per time!...otherwise it would look like a robot!....These are details relating theory with practice.....however I agreed that there is always something to improved...we can always do better. However taking hands on practice makes you understand better the theories.

If anyone find or can make a reference to a really Dinosaur walk with a nice weight shifted it would be greatly appreciated. I haven't found any neither in Jurassic Park.
 
Old 05-10-2010, 05:38 PM   #10
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Hey thanks CIARAND for that link. Very useful.....something to analyze and get some good points out of it.

I like the animation...as I said before faster helps believability but it goes against the inertia of those animals. He walks like a little reptile that's my point...to me is way to fast....however the weight shifting I consider excellent. No one has seem Dinosaurs at walk....but if the gravity is the same 9.81m/s the speed is related to its body mass....Einstein equations....that's why bigger animals move slower (elephants, giraffe etc there is always a bouncing)Playing a bit with the playback run also helps to fine tune the final product. They can run fast because their wide steps...but how many steps per second? That would be an answer to solve Dino mysteries.

Thanks again for that link....I got some references to improve!

Last edited by Animaticoide : 05-10-2010 at 05:40 PM.
 
Old 05-10-2010, 05:39 PM   #11
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hi there, this one might help u out... although it's not as heavy as your dinosaur. i like the overall weight distribution in the body. so it could come handy! i only wish he had uploaded a side and a front view as well!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UIBYjXR58IU
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Old 05-10-2010, 05:41 PM   #12
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I found this video that very close to what I imagine:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3bv...feature=related

Of course its just my opinion
I wish you good luck if you want to improve your animation
 
Old 05-10-2010, 05:49 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Animaticoide
...that's why bigger animals move slower (elephants, giraffe etc there is always a bouncing)Playing a bit with the playback run also helps to fine tune the final product. They can run fast because their wide steps...but how many steps per second?


I dunno man, an elephant can run pretty fast if it wants too. A large dinosaur like the spinosaurus/trex/albertosaur/whatever can still run pretty fast. Sure we can't tell for certain how they look, but isn't it estimated they can run pretty quickly, much faster than a human, their stride is quite long after all.

Here is another link, its from Jurassic Park 3, its a raptor walk cycle (at the end of vid) -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTMy...feature=related

I know its a smaller dino and different structure, but if you just look at what the hips and legs are doing, and maybe the chest a bit too it will definitely give you a good start. You would need to exaggerate the weight more obviously as that raptor is much smaller.

The last two links posted by Imaver and dapOOn are excellent examples also.
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Old 05-10-2010, 06:03 PM   #14
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U have a good start there mate but the weight defo does need work. If your looking for good reference the best reference on youtube is probably swordlord's

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Re7R...feature=related

or viggoro's..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bvtx...feature=related

ciarand i want to agree with u as the thought of these being as slow as an elephant doesn't sound as cool, but experts done research (cant remember the link sorry) and for T-rex to run 25 mph hed need something like 92% body mass in his leg muscles! lol

iv just created a dino myself and i probably overdone the weight transfer when it walks so take that into consideration as well. remind urself these things weighed 7 tons.

heres mine
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDGRuL0uS6s

Last edited by martinf430 : 05-10-2010 at 06:10 PM.
 
Old 05-10-2010, 06:45 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ciarand
I dunno man, an elephant can run pretty fast if it wants too. A large dinosaur like the spinosaurus/trex/albertosaur/whatever can still run pretty fast. Sure we can't tell for certain how they look, but isn't it estimated they can run pretty quickly, much faster than a human, their stride is quite long after all.



Well this is going a bit contradictory now. Look some of this animations are not representing weight at all due to gravity! It looks like the dino hits the floor and then gets his upper-body down like a cat! I strongly disagree. There is not weight illusion, it seems like he moves down because he wants to...but not because gravity.

Keep in mind that in order to keep away muscle actions from weight action is the harmony between speed of the character and his inertia....
The one I consider more realistic regarding the weight issue is the one pointed by:
DapOOn and IMAVER....
Jurassic Park Movie 1993. However you might think it is too slow. Again speed kills inertia and viceversa.

Also the raptor video is good but these guys were small with less inertia. Actually inertia is the force needed to change the speed of any body mass. At speed=0 the inertia is at its maximum. Realy fat guys tend to move slower than skiny ones under healthy conditions. Inertia is hard to simulate in animation. Bringing just the body down is not enough if is not synchronized wit its speed.

Elephants move pretty fast right...but that is not the fact of weight issue..the question is: For how long the feet stays on the ground until the next cycle? That's the point that makes his movement slower because the Inertia ( Inertia is the relation of the body mass with gravity and speed ) So 7 tons makes it slower per frame but he can still be very fast. One thing is not related to the other in relative terms...actually saying that an elephant can run faster than a human is not a good example because we have different size and inertia. Actually an elephant can be faster m/s but a human can produce cycles steps faster than an elephant ! You are missing again the inertia.



@Martinf430
I don't see much harmony in that clip....foot down...then body down without a prudential time of gravity term..also it is robotic ..

Last edited by Animaticoide : 05-10-2010 at 07:00 PM.
 
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