Painter 11-Thanks Corel...

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  02 February 2009
Painter 11-Thanks Corel...

... for not listening to users. Are you trying to make us hate you?

Color Wheel = smaller than it was before in a default view. Yippee! We can drag it to be a stand-alone palette. Users were asking you to make judicious use of the space it occupies now(in PainterX), with-OUT all of the surrounding wasted gray area. As in older versions, it would have been just right, or even 25% larger than PainterX! I even uploaded an image showing this on PaintedFactory!... over a year ago!

Palette Clutter and again, superfluous gray space and duplication of indicators.
Open the Size, Hard Media, and Angle palettes. WHY do you need to show the pen nib size every time? While the added Hard Media is a welcome addition, was it really so hard to integrate it into the Size palette? You have tons of room, and you can do min/max size at the same time.

Is there a reason why this is one of only a handful of apps on a Mac that the GUI does not adhere AT ALL to Apple's guidelines for Tiger or Leopard?!

One positive so far: it is faster. However, your Team drastically needs a real GUI designer. In it's current state, Painter 11 is just an update... NOT an UPGRADE!
 
  02 February 2009
Add to that :

- the same white, one pixel border on the result of a copy/paste operation. So much for 'improved layer management'
- the same funky color banding issues when painting or blending over a transparent layer
- the same abysmal custom brush management (still requires moving files around by hand)

Does anyone know if there is a way to report bugs back to Corel ?

The website is a little short on feedback options.
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  02 February 2009
Originally Posted by agiel:
Does anyone know if there is a way to report bugs back to Corel ?

The website is a little short on feedback options.


This thread on the Painter Factory forums may be the best place for Painter 11 feedback and bug reports.

David
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  02 February 2009
Painter 11 Enhanced Selection tools

From the Corel website:
Enhanced! Selection Tools
A new Polygonal mode for the Lasso tool, plus overall improvements to marquee tools and the Magic Wand, let you make more nimble selections the first time around.

False advertising (period!).

Most of the problems with selections was those nasty 0,7px ants, and the lasso lagging behind the selection, that is unless your living in a half-speed time warp and you like it that way(?!). Also... after waiting for the ants... feather the selection, and then try to expand or contract the selection. No chance = grayed out.

Now, make a quick selection (don't forget to wait for the lasso and the ants!). Now choose Widen under selection: look at that fantastic speech balloon - from a CIRCLE! Not exactly the right time or place I intended to write, "well this is crap!"

Now try a simple Wand selection. Again, no chance to Expand, Contract, or Smooth the selection... even without a feather. Oh yeah.. you have to click the Transform button or key-combo first. How intuitive... and certainly "enhanced".

Now try drawing a selection with the Oval selection tool. Now drag it. Uh! Now its a rectangle. But then again... I guess I'm the idiot for not using the arrow keys, huh? Do that... oh how wonderful and enhanced! The selection blinks with control handles each press of the arrow. You could dance along with the "New and Enhanced" disco-ball effect... if ya like a slow Waltz that is!

Anyone from Corel want to explain why a polygon selection is considered "Enhanced". It was even in ColorStudio 1.0 and MacPaint since 1985! It IS the only thing you added or enhanced to make selections more "nimble"

Last TIP for today... go ahead folks and import your Painter X Workspaces. I DARE YA! Try: Start over and rebuild 'em... by hand as the previous poster mentioned.

PS: Hey Corel ... you absolutely sure you want to continue to maintain that Corel 11 is an UPGRADE and worth $200,00? It's a minor update and mini bug fix, nothing more, and certainly not worth what your asking.
 
  02 February 2009
Ok I tried out the demo and I have to say I'm disappointed in the update on a few things...well..the new version. Whatever you want to call it. I'll list the pros and cons...

Pros.
-Nice hard media addition. I like the tilt of the pen for shading aspect. markers looks nice.

-Rotation of the canvas and it's jagged edges seems fixed.

-Color Management is nice. An obvious need ages ago.

-Resizable mixer palette.

Cons.
-(THE BIGGEST ISSUE FOR ME) It's still slow. I think they have a typo in 30% faster. Take out the 0. More like 3%. Why? Because a large size brush for oil and real bristle still lag. And I mean above 30% diameter. ( running a brand new unibody Macbook Pro 15 do I need more than 2g ram?) Maybe it's faster in other medias but I didn't have an issue with those.

-Airbrush is still the same...too clumpy in result. Hasn't changed. They can keep that variation but make one like PS! I've said it to them but seems like a challenge.

-Oil, Real Bristle still not able to have grain. Is it just me but when I was using real paint you can see the grain of the paper when painting. Why don't they have that option!? Its stupid. Acrylic has that option and it's snappier than the others...but I want the option for paper grain on ALOT of the media types. Esp oils! I want to see some canvas texture! geez. Don't bother to tell me to apply it after either.

-UI needs a change. The floating window clutter can be better. I like the way ZBrush has theirs set up. Makes more sense. They can pop in and out when needed and it's clustered and still modifiable. Best of all your not distracted by the desktop in the background! That option is nice. For the app to take up all the viewing space with a solid bg.

-Preview window for Filters. STILL?! That tiny little window...GOD I LOVE IT. lol I don't understand why they can't make it so you can see the result on the canvas. I don't even want to see if there's a better curves adjustement filter. Won't bother checking.

This update in general is a miss as a full version. X.5 yes. But what the heck do I know right? I think I will go easy on the dev team at Corel & stop complaining about how Painter has missed a few things and go over to Adobe and complain how they spoiled me. LOL. I kid I kid.

Seriously though Painter is nice...just some things that Isn't perfect and it's a shame those things aren't changed sooner rather then later...or never ( remains to be seen ). Biggest thing is the speed/performance and grain for oils and real bristle. Airbrush would be nice to change but I can jump over to PS....again. lol
I for one won't be updating.
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  02 February 2009
The airbrush mode is much worse than it used to be! Clumpy?! It leaves drastic dirty rings around color changes, the same as 9 and X before the updates.

Try painting with only a gray ramp, and you'll get multi-colored rings and artifacts. Yes I checked to see that Color variations weren't on. Also, when choosing the soft 50 Air the first time, Grain slider showed up at the top. I chose it again, and the grain slider was gone.

BTW: The horizontal lines are also back when zooming or working on a layer, sometimes when painting. I thought THAT... and the artifact rings were taken care of LONG ago!? Unbelievable! 1 Step forward... 3 steps back.
 
  02 February 2009
I haven't downloaded the trial but I must say when I read the blurb I was surprised that nothing about the new features jumped out at me. Indeed, I failed to find anything which prompted me to say, "Yep, that sounds like a great feature". And reading this thread there's little that makes me eager to give it a go and change my mind.

And if the filter preview windows really are still tiny (and, in the case of Match Palette, completely inaccurate), after all I and everyone else has said, then that's almost unbelievable.
 
  02 February 2009
Originally Posted by sand dragon: This thread on the Painter Factory forums may be the best place for Painter 11 feedback and bug reports.

David


There are two places at The PainterFactory to post threads or messages about Painter 11:

For topics related to general understanding and use of Painter 11, post your threads or messages in the Corel Painter 11 - New Version! forum.

For technical issues and bug reports that will involve the Corel Painter development team, post your threads or messages in the Got a Question/Technical Issue/Bug Report for the Painter Team? forum.


Jinny


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Last edited by Jinbrown : 02 February 2009 at 08:59 PM.
 
  02 February 2009
Jinny they read these forums. And if they don't it's a waste of FREE feedback. It's a forum titled Corel Painter. I've mentioned these issues to them so it's useless no matter how you spoon feed it. They know. What they do with this Free info is up to them.
Once upon a time prior to the net one would have to harass someone to get feedback about their product(s). Mail ins and phone numbers. Now it's too easy it's everywhere. Whatever. Autodesk will buy everything eventually. lol i kid i kid.
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  02 February 2009
Hi Jinny...

I was wondering how long it would take the #1 Painter Cheerleader “Jinny” to come to Corel’s rescue. Jinny: we’ve been through all of this before more than a year ago. I, as well as many others contributed to the Painter wish-list both here... and at PaintedFactory.com.

At that time, PainterX was already over a year old, and had seen only 1... I repeat “ONE” update i.e. bug-fix. So, considering that many, and if I dare say MOST of the bug-fixes went unfixed and ignored THEN, or they popped up their ugly heads AGAIN(!) in this “new version”... what should we do differently THIS time around?

I do believe that no matter what we as professional users wish for or want, Corel WILL ignore us. Last time I even went so far as to point to other websites, for other software, that had wish lists set up so that you didn’t have duplicates... and people could vote on the ones they needed most, similar to http://aerotaskforce.com/. A wonderful system that lets the developers prioritize what needs to be addressed. Did Corel do that? No.

So Jinny... please tell... WHAT can we as users do NOW(!) and differently, to help the people at Corel develop Painter to it’s fullest underlying ability?

If memory serves me (it’s here somewhere), I personally was “shot down” and told to shut up (basically) after Rob MacDonald announced that a new version of Painter was coming, and Quote, “...we’re working on some great stuff”. I held my end of the deal... stopped posting... and was patient. So now may I please post, “SHOW ME THE GREAT STUFF ROB!” A polygon lasso tool, re-sizable palettes, color sliders, and Color management done right... is NOT DOING IT FOR ME, and dare I say, definitely does NOT qualify as “great”’ in this day and age.

If I may be so bold as to possibly speak for other pro-artists and illustrators around here, we do NOT need Webinars on how to make paintings from photos with one click. We NEED software and a toolbox that “works”, and gets out of our way so that we can CREATE. Most of us know what we want and how to do it with different mediums since childhood, with training, and have practiced for many 1000’s of hours to perfect our craft. Today that means digitally with computers and software. Painter WAS a great jump to bridge the divide between traditional and future mediums. WAS. It has since version 8, and still is with version 11, lagging far behind the advances of the technological possibilities of the day. Do something about it, or at least turn it all over to the Open Source community if it’s not financially advantageous for you (Corel) to continue developing.

PS: And to think we were discussing here Open GL support, Core technologies, etc. being integrated. Makes us look downright foolish for wasting our time “dreaming”.

PSS: That 30% speed boost claim needs to be verified... AND Adobe just released an update to PhotoShop CS4 that does just that... and it was FREE!

PSS: Give me software worthy of the word “great”, and I’ll fork over a grand if ya need it. Did that with Adobe CS3 and CS4, and it was worth every penny to me!
 
  02 February 2009
photoshop cs4 64bit is a monster. I have switched over to photoshop for now for digital work. less pain more work.
 
  02 February 2009
Quote from Corel Website:

Enhanced! Adobe® Photoshop® Support

Maintain colors and layers when transferring files between Photoshop and Painter. This saves time when importing and exporting artwork between the two programs, because corrections are less necessary.

NOT TRUE and false advertising. (Who wrote that last line? Horrible English!)


Any layer that has an effect, or image that makes use of Adjustment layers, will NOT be imported to Painter. Also, Blending methods not supported by Painter will be ignored and throw a warning on opening. The layer is still there, but does nothing. Also, the same warning will pop up even if the method IS supported, like Multiply or Screen. However, it does display correctly.


Good news: layer opacity and layer mask comes in. Again, only with supported blending modes. Is better than before? Yes. Is it 'great"? No.


Once again, you will have to maintain separate working versions, or plan out your work-flow accordingly and ahead of time. OK... I wasn't expecting anything different in regards to that. Safer anyway.


Bad news: fat colored,alternating polo-stripes (about an inch wide!) when zooming in and out, specifically at 75%.


No it's not my system! A Jan.2008 8-Core MacPro - 16gb RAM - NVIDEA 8800GT - 512mb
 
  02 February 2009
I hear ya!

Originally Posted by ubermensch76: photoshop cs4 64bit is a monster. I have switched over to photoshop for now for digital work. less pain more work.


ABOLUTELY AGREE! However... there were and still are times in my work where I want that super fast (with Custom Palettes) sketching, drawing, painting, etc. ability. Painter DID fit that space. It is why "bugs" are not allowed. Did I say "fast"? PS-CS4 is a dream come true these days... although, almost "too perfect". And the age-old "Just Add water" blend tool in Painter is almost indispensible for me. Although I have been working on some great presets with Smooth tools and scattering. A post is here on CG how to do that. Great stuff!

Like I've always said, Painter is a great toolbox to have at your disposal, but woefully under-developed, and with each new version (so that it works seamlessly with new OSes) is a digital bug-fest and almost always dissappointing visually (GUI) to open.

My box: CS4 (all), PS, LightRoom, Aperture, Pixelmator... and assorted utilities with gorgeous, get-work-done, interface-outa-the-way, screen real-estate efficiency.... and then Painter! Which looks like GIMP running under an x11 window emulator... and performs about the same (nothing against Gimp here... it's the emulator).

Anyway... I'll be skipping this UPGRADE and wait for an update/bug fix... or new version next year.

PS: Just curious: how's Painter looking under Vista-64, soon to be Win7-64? Anybody?
 
  02 February 2009
It looks the same in Vista 64 though the new version does support ram beyond 8GB as opposed to crashing in earlier versions if u have anything more than that. It was only in windows version I think.

Since the CS4 release I have grown accustomed to missing the blending engine from painter. And the workflow is fast.

If u want sketching stuff ( not at the level of painter but pretty neat ) u might want to try the upcoming version of sketchbook pro 2010. From the preview vids its looks like an awesome tool for skteching and roughing things out fast. Some innovative features I had wanted in 2d apps for a long time for professional Digital Artists.
 
  02 February 2009
Bug Fix - Stripes on Mac - New Bug Mac - No Icons

Bug Fix: Turn off (uncheck) "Draw zoomed-out views using area-averaging" in Preferences -> General. Also improves the rendered picture when zoomed out (50%-66%-75%), instead of being pixelated.

New Bug: no document image (thumbnail) icons for jpg, psd, tiff, or png (I didn't try the rest) in Icon or Column view from a Mac, also doesn't show a preview in CoverFlow; only a Painter document icon with TIF, JPG, etc. overlayed. QuickLook however works.

New Worthlessness: PNG - no dialog box to alter settings, like color depth or transparency settings. Hence, a meaningless format since you'll still have to round-trip back to PS or graphic converter of choice to do this PROFESSIONALLY. Does respect transparency though if the Canvas layer is turned off.

Unfixed PainterX
Bug 1) Windows, and sometimes palettes open up behind the upper status bar. Fix: Move bar to access Palette or Window title bar.
Bug 2) Also, when dragging a doc to a window or the Painter Dock icon, all Palettes and status bars dissappear. Fix: you must choose manually from the Menu ->Window->Hide Palettes... TWICE! Don't forget that: 2 times! OKay. good to go now
 
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