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Old 05-17-2004, 06:36 PM   #46
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wow

I think the first hair design makes the most sense. ^ ^'
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Old 05-17-2004, 08:27 PM   #47
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more than a reference,christian dior must be a real idol for you.check this out,bikini line,summer 2002
 
Old 05-17-2004, 09:57 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally posted by kirara
more than a reference,christian dior must be a real idol for you.check this out,bikini line,summer 2002


Well it doesn't appear to be a tracing of the reference but I might as well say that this piece is relying too heavily on sex appeal and IMO barely adheres to the guidelines for content for the contest.

Personally I thought the initial quality of the drawing had some promise but I find it disappointing to discover that the pose is "borrowed" so to speak.. since the emphasis of the image is the sexy pose then this is unoriginal and is questionable.

So far the execution of coloring is not as good as it needs to be. The main issues I'll mention are that there is no variance in the thickness of the inked line work and the shading while good is heavy handed and is contrasty which makes it look very flat and very computery. It would bring alot of depth to the image if there was some variance in the tones from the near surfaces to the far surfaces.
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Old 05-18-2004, 03:00 PM   #49
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crits

Kirara - Well spotted, this pic was my main inspiration for the drawing.

Gmask - Harsh man. This is the second picture I have done using this kind of style using the PC, so I am basically a novice trying to get into using the computer for creating drawings. Maybe this is why my coloring is disapointing to you. Getting back to your comment on the unoriginal pose, many great artists use models and take photo's of these models to use as references to create their paintings (does this mean they are using unoriginal ideas as well, one of the greats being boris vallejo), not all of us can afford to hire models so the next best thing is to accure a subject elsewhere thus using magazines and other sources. I basically use the linework as a reference for the color so no variance of line thickness will be noticed, maybe I didn't understand the idea of linework and should have done a inking of the work instead but this would not have helped my final image.

Lets see what the image will look like when it is finished.

Lastly I'm doing the competition to have some fun and to maybe learn a thing or two about computer art, but styles differ and so does taste, and not everyone will like everything they see.
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Old 05-18-2004, 04:16 PM   #50
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Re: crits

>>>Gmask - Harsh man. This is the second picture I have done using this kind of style using the PC, so I am basically a novice trying to get into using the computer for creating drawings. Maybe this is why my coloring is disapointing to you.

Ok so my feedback is the coloring needs more work but I guess that should be obvious.

>>>Getting back to your comment on the unoriginal pose, many great artists use models and take photo's of these models to use as references to create their paintings (does this mean they are using unoriginal ideas as well, one of the greats being boris vallejo), not all of us can afford to hire models so the next best thing is to accure a subject elsewhere thus using magazines and other sources.

No you are missing the point and don't compare yourself to Vallejo. Some people will go through alot of trouble to decide which pose to use and how to draw it. But as I said the pose is not original.. that is simply a fact.

>>>I basically use the linework as a reference for the color so no variance of line thickness will be noticed, maybe I didn't understand the idea of linework and should have done a inking of the work instead but this would not have helped my final image.

Well have a look at this guys thread.

http://www.cgtalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=132110

>>>Lastly I'm doing the competition to have some fun and to maybe learn a thing or two about computer art, but styles differ and so does taste, and not everyone will like everything they see.

I hope you can use my criticism without taking it personally but I have no "oh sexy girl, you win" comments. Also if you reread my previous comments I never said I didn't like it.
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Old 05-18-2004, 08:32 PM   #51
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Devil -> Fire -> Red -> number 2...

Ouch... Someone just had been caught
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:46 AM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by gmask
Well it doesn't appear to be a tracing of the reference but I might as well say that this piece is relying too heavily on sex appeal and IMO barely adheres to the guidelines for content for the contest.


Well Since there is no such thing as an origonal pose and everything in this world is just rehashed ideas. I personally dont think it matters if DLoots used a photo (or magazine cut out).

Since Dloots hasn't traced the image what does it matter where the insperation for the pose comes from. -> Just my opinion.

Quote:
Originally posted by gmask
Personally I thought the initial quality of the drawing had some promise but I find it disappointing to discover that the pose is "borrowed" so to speak.. since the emphasis of the image is the sexy pose then this is unoriginal and is questionable.

So far the execution of coloring is not as good as it needs to be. The main issues I'll mention are that there is no variance in the thickness of the inked line work and the shading while good is heavy handed and is contrasty which makes it look very flat and very computery. It would bring alot of depth to the image if there was some variance in the tones from the near surfaces to the far surfaces.


Personaly I like the colouring and the line work. Is it a very typical pinup style yeah sure. But I could say the same or atleast very similar to 99% o the pieces on this site. Tons of them look like Feng's drawings (http://www.artbyfeng.com)

Does it rely on a sexy pose well sure but why shouldnt it.

As forthe line work I persoanlly think its really cool. I like the way the whole drawing doesnt rely on line work. Its not Manga or anime after all.

As for the colouring he has even said that its not finished so we shouldnt be to hasty to judge.

I know you never said you didnt like it. Im just saying that I do.

Do I know DLoots well if you read back through the posts then it will be obvious that I do. but even so I say without any predgadise that I honestly do really like his work.

I just wanted to add my support and say that I still like the way he is going with this.

So Long And Thanks For All The Fish
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Old 05-19-2004, 09:50 AM   #53
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Oh as for Hair colour scheme I recon I like No 2 and No 6 though town down the highlights just a bit on the red.
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Old 05-19-2004, 12:43 PM   #54
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Crits

Gmask - Don't just say the coloring needs work, give me an idea of what to do, how would I go about improving it. I also didn't compare myself or my work to Vallejo I simply wanted to know if you thought the process that he uses is also unoriginal? I understand that people take a long time in planning there pictures concerning layouts and poses and all credit go to them, but I saw the pose, liked it and used it, be it that the pose is unorginal I am trying to make the style, look and creative additions mine. I enjoy the pinup genre and unfortunately this mean drawing sexy girls, but saying because I drew a sexy girl means that I want you to say "cool you win" is not the reason I chose the subject, this is what I enjoy doing.

I'm a big fan of bloodtaster and I really like his work but I have a different style and way of working and my linework even though it is visible at the moment will not play such a big roll in the end product. Line variance and texture are important and I understand where you are coming from, but I'm not doing a black and white drawing.

I am not taking your critisism personally and winning the competition is not the number one thing on my list, I am here to pick up some tips on how to improve my art and I need some critism that will help me do this and saying the coloring needs work on an unfinished projects is not giving me any consrtuctive feedback. Reading through your comments you are right you didn't say that you disliked it but you also didn't say that you did.

Sigfire - Thanks for the support man
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Old 05-19-2004, 03:52 PM   #55
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Re: Crits

Quote:
Originally posted by dloots
Gmask - Don't just say the coloring needs work, give me an idea of what to do, how would I go about improving it.


" It would bring alot of depth to the image if there was some variance in the tones from the near surfaces to the far surfaces."

The way it is currently shaded is as if it was releif map. The surfaces that are further away from the viewer have the same range of tones as the ones nearby.

>>>I enjoy the pinup genre and unfortunately this mean drawing sexy girls, but saying because I drew a sexy girl means that I want you to say "cool you win" is not the reason I chose the subject, this is what I enjoy doing.

And this is why I'm giving you "harse" critisism because I can appreciate well done execution of an idea even if the hotchick factor doesn't floor me. At this point I think the sexy pose which is somebody else's pose etc is still %75 of what you have so far.

Personally I don't really like Vallejo.. I can appreciate the talent but I think the content of his work is cheesy. The artist in that genre I have ever liked is Frazetta.

In either case I suppose if you could bring the same level of skill painting the human body then borrowing a pose is less about the post and more about the artist's execution of it.

I think also in the context of the competition wether you are trying to win or not using premade materials is not allowed.. I don't know if copying a pose counts as that but that is why I said it was questionable.

>>>>I'm a big fan of bloodtaster and I really like his work but I have a different style and way of working and my linework even though it is visible at the moment will not play such a big roll in the end product. Line variance and texture are important and I understand where you are coming from, but I'm not doing a black and white drawing.

As far as I know his finished work will be in color.But still linework will play a role for fine shadowing in certain areas and it can't be just a line of the same thickness.


>>>>I am here to pick up some tips on how to improve my art and I need some critism that will help me do this and saying the coloring needs work on an unfinished projects is not giving me any consrtuctive feedback.

I hope that my above comments help.. basically the coloring makes the overall surface flat and does not add depth to the image. It adds form to the surfaces but not depth.. does that make sense?

BTW I have no way of knowing what stage you are at in finalizing the coloring other than to say it needs more work no matter what your end goal is.
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:31 PM   #56
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General Originality Argument cont.....

As For Bloodtasters' work (And dont get me wrong I think his stuff is really good) you could say that its unoriginal. To me its very much Ghost in the Shell meets The Matrix.

I still like it though. In Fact I like it alot.

just my gazillion cents worth
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Old 05-19-2004, 05:38 PM   #57
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Re: General Originality Argument cont.....

Quote:
Originally posted by SigFire
As For Bloodtasters' work (And dont get me wrong I think his stuff is really good) you could say that its unoriginal. To me its very much Ghost in the Shell meets The Matrix.


How so? I don't really recall anything like vampires in either of those movies. I guess in "Ghost in the shell" there is a body snatcher or sorts but stillnot exactly a vampire. Stylisitically I see only mild comparisions and no relationship at all to the the Matrix.

Anyway I don't want to sidetrack Loots thread .. I referenced bloodtasters thread because I think that as a bw line art drawing it kicks so much ass that it doesn't need color. I guess my point is that a style peice nice line work and simple color can be very strong and sexy but it has to be very refined but I think easier to pull off than going for the Valejo or Frazetta realistic fantasy style.
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Old 05-19-2004, 08:41 PM   #58
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Re: Re: General Originality Argument cont.....

Quote:
Originally posted by gmask
How so? I don't really recall anything like vampires in either of those movies. I guess in "Ghost in the shell" there is a body snatcher or sorts but stillnot exactly a vampire. Stylisitically I see only mild comparisions and no relationship at all to the the Matrix.


Sorry I was meaning style rather than actual subject matter.

Anyway your right Im getting side tracked.
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Old 05-19-2004, 08:59 PM   #59
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Talking hey guys!

hey everybody, dont you think the critisms here are a bit harsh? its art ! the most important thing here is that everybody participating here has fun! dont you think critisms should be constructive and not designed to break someones spirit ( boy do i sound like a hippie!) dirk, the pic looks great so far!

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Old 05-20-2004, 01:09 AM   #60
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Hey guys

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and I think that gmask has given some good points.

His suggestion about more variance in the light/dark tonal quality is well founded. I think this piece needs a bit more depth to it. My suggestion, seeing as we're using lineart here, is to take a look at mighty_m's work. The use of line with varying thickness, thicker where shadow would be present and thinner when you want light to be represented is very well executed.

I think this work is very good and as Dirk pointed out, cgtalk is here so we can all learn from each other.

The question of a magazine being used to get a pose is nothing clandestine. Most of us can't afford models to pose for us, I use a manikin, and I also use magazines for ideas. I've even looked at other people's comic books to see how they interpreted the way a person can move or stand. The only problem is if the drawing in traced verbatim. If we can't use what we see as inspiration or reference, then we may as well stop posting onthe site because I know I've used stuff on here to inpsire and direct me through the execution of a piece. I wouldn't mind someone looking at something I've done to get and idea.

Anyway, that's enough for now.

Dirk: Your piece is looking great, listen to what everyone says and use what you reckon will work for you.

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