Endless Rain, Cwb (3D)

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  01 January 2003
gmask easy up on the guy. he has done an amazing work. if he can do that he can do her in any other pose. he did this on purpose, if he did it otherwise ppl would still be wowing. originality sure counts but if you composed tubes originally, they are still tubes. it doesn't show that you can actually make something technically dicent other than it being original. i don't think folks at ilm go for originality as the 1s priority, it's technical ablilities. if not they wouldn't be making all those great visuals.
give the guy a proper credit or show us the samples of originality. in today's days its very hard to make somethign original because any one person can always say, "hey that part looks like from...." and another one might say "no but that peice looks from..."

great job!!! truly awesome but i do admit that fingers look abit odd
SOFTIMAGE|XSI !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  01 January 2003
With the way he modeled, textured, and rendered that scene so beautiful, I think that definately over shadows were he got the inspiration from. It takes a special person to tweak a scene to perfection like that, so he used a painting, the techniques and artistic skill in 3d is still great, maybe not originality, but if he had passion enough to sit there and tweak for hours and hours to get it perfect like that, then he has my respect.

It's not like he is selling it or putting in on display at the NY art gallery, what's next, are you going to throw paint on it to ruin it?

Still I think it's great work if he made it from scratch, but I do agree, it is very bad etiquette not to give credit to the original artist....I totally see your point, but I don't think it should really over shadow such great modeling, texturing and rendering.

I know I would want to see more of this guys work in the future when he starts to make his own art work, the techniques are there, he just has to work on originality and Artist etiquette.
*Insert pretentious quote here*
  01 January 2003

sorry to that dude a few posts back, guess i'm looking at it as an achievement in CG rather than a work of art, which is unfortunately how I look at all CG pics, and, to me, I also find it more visually appealing.
  01 January 2003
i have some questions: was it modeled in a standard pose & ups.. 'posed' like that after being rigged ? & can you post a low cage wireframe of her ? & finally was it airbrushed or altered in any other way with in a 2d editing program ? thx
  01 January 2003
geeze you people are being way too hard on this guy!

Luis Royo didn't just throw his paintings together, he has his own "influences" as well. Royo's good but he's not the almighty pioneer that you guys are making him out to be. There was art before Royo. So what if this CG image was inspired by a painting.
You saw the wire-frame! This an amazing 3d model....done with Max 4.2 no less! Great work man!

WILL model for FOOD :scream:

  01 January 2003
I want to see more renders from other angles...

The first image shows the whole, I want to see the different pieces that make the whole...

And I definitely agree with earlier post, it kinda does look like Mongolian Stevie Nicks... not that that's a bad thing at all.

"Impossible is nothing."
  01 January 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Vic3k
in today's days its very hard to make somethign original because any one person can always say, "hey that part looks like from...." and another one might say "no but that peice looks from..."

I don't think that at all. Those who are doing original work today know that their work is original. Sure there might be other works that resemble them (since it's all animation anyway), but original pieces stand out. However, if you decide to make an animated piece called "Toy Adventures" starying Spaz Lightsaber and Wood-E, we're not going to be fooled.

So IMO...copying is o.k. as long you give credit and its to build skills, otherwise LET"S ALL BE ORIGINAL.

  01 January 2003
Re: Re: ...

Quote: Originally posted by Lyr
Did you look at the painting? aside from the obvious technical defeciencies of the copy can you not see the delicate balance of tension and sensitivity in the original composition that the copy lacks? Do you see that there very well may be blood mixed with sweat? It's alot more than the angle and the pose that make cwb's work a copy, it's the intent. The fact that he did not credit Royo, and probably wouldn't have unless someone called him on it corrupts that intent. Add to it that he chose to copy the cover image of prohibited 1 makes it all the more infuriating. Prohibited contains many of Royo's most personal and revealing works (he reveals things about himself that few others would dare to even face themselves in the privacy of their own thoughts). Choosing to take the cover image of so personal of a creative work and present it as your own is appalling.

I totally agree. Very good talent,but no originality,the whole thing is off due to that.I understand influences,but not outright duplication. And without even mentioning the artist he was duplicating. That's so un-fair. If someone had not mentioned this,he would have pawned it off as his own original work. That's unfair,100%.
Create your own style with it's influences from others,that's understandible,but not blatant duplication. This artist has talent,but I am soured by the attempt of duplication without so much as a mention to the great original artist and his work.:annoyed:
  01 January 2003
Re: Endless Rain (my last year job)

REALLY nice work there cwb! I remember seeing this a while ago on 3DArtists... loved it then, still love it now.

You mentioned it was done in max4.2, what was used for the fur/hair? Shag-fur/hair?

Keep up the good work!

  01 January 2003
We are the sub total of our influences...

One could even go so far as to artistically interpret that fact that in Wenbo Cao's "Endless Rain" the women not gripping the fur garment, as in Royo's the women has one hand visible clutching the garment... He has depicted the women releasing the garment in essence releaseing himself from an out right dub of Royo's work.

hahah, ok, its obvious he is emulating Royo's work in 3D, and we all should know better then to not credit the original artist in such an obvious situation. Not giving credit cheats viewers who aren't familar with Royo's work such as me, and is highly frowned upon by viewers who are familiar.

Sometimes people honestly don't realize and know any better, but in this case after working on it for the last year, I highly doubt that somewhere along the creative line it wasnt brought up that he must credit Royo...

Many are very right that if he were to choose a different camera angle, mood, and expression it would be a work of his own directly inspired by Royo's work instead of a 3D dub.
(which would usually be done at first as a test, but never exposed as your own finished work)

Kudos for the 3D work though, it looks good.
dead.mans.chest.comp | vfxlog.meyemind.com
  01 January 2003
Quote: Originally posted by Vic3k
gmask easy up on the guy. he has done an amazing work.

To be honest I'm still not convinvced that the model itself is not from Poser but the posted wireframe is really hard to read so I won't beg the issue. But I have allways found the hands in Poser modles to be weak and that apears to be the biggest flaw in this model. I know what those wireframes look like when they are not obscured and the the face looks like one of their models. oops I'm begging the issue again.

I still find it irritating that the work was not credited and it is clear that he is posting this image elsewhere as well without doing so.

It would be interesting to see anything else done by this same artist as based on what I know about this image I do find it hard to evaluate the artist and I really do not see it as technically all that amazing. Get Poser model, assign fur to surface, sample color values from original piece of art and hit render. I simplify.. this you will find me annoying .. I apologize ;-)

Moral of the story is DO NOT COPY artwork and not give the artists credit even if this is for practice!
blah blah blah
  01 January 2003
nickpappas : that could very well be an imported model (like some one has already mentioned i think) from... whereever.
i agree on inspiration, tiny amounts of influence but i totally disagree on copying... i don't think i have to elaborate that into pages long posts...
i would seriously consider attaching the original artwork if the 3d version would be posted in portfolio or anything similar...
  01 January 2003
I agree with Gmask. As I too have mentioned above,duplication is fine if practicing your skills,and if you give the proper credit to the person you are copying from.
That does look like a Poser model. Now that Gmask has planted this seed it really makes me wonder. The real problem with this model is the hands,and Poser is horrible when it comes to hands in my opinion.
Let us see some real "CLOSE UP WIRES" clearly,then at least that subject can be addressed.
And give the real artist credit already,here and everywhere else you have posted this.
  01 January 2003
whats this guy on trial for. He should have given credit, apologised that he didn't whether or not he would have corrected himself is complete heresay.

As for whether or not the model is a poser model doesn't really matter, if it is then i wouldn't give him praise for being a great modeler, if it isn't then I would give hime praise as a modeler, since I'm not sure myself it doesn't matter to me.

Question I wonder is if he made her hair blon used a dark blue bg and rendered it from a downward angle more to the front would you have cared as much?

I give the artist praise for the simple fat that he did such a nice job of replicating the image, who cares if he used a poser model to do it,maybe his skills lie in lighting and rendering, maybe in texturing. the thing is he saw the image decided to recreate it in 3D and did a pretty good job of it. Maybe he doesn't deserve the worship some people have given him as is often giving to anyone on cgtalk, but give him some praise where its due, he's got some skill to do such a great job.

Or are you going to accuse Bay Raiit and the other Artists at Weta along with peter Jackson and the bunch of knocking off gollum's design from Ralph Bakshi's horrible animated film. We know thats not the case, but with your behaviour thats how you should be treating it.

Lighten up its been pointed out he didn't give credit, he admist and apologized for it leave it be go somewhere and quite hassling the guy
Quote: "Until you do what you believe in, how do you know whether you believe in it or not?" -Leo Tolstoy
Kai Pedersen
  01 January 2003
It seems people are a little touchy. The guy's guilty until he proves his innocence, huh? While it would be fine to do a little policing if this were an obvious fraud or infringement upon someone else's copyright, this falls into a VERY gray area and doesn't deserve the few witch-hunt attacks it's received.

You guys make sure you dot your own i's and cross your own t's. I realize that we have to be wary of copyright infringement, but why don't you just ask the guy nicely for a wireframe instead of demand it as proof that he's not a liar, cheat and con?

The guy was nice enough to share some excellent work, whether it was "inspired" by another artist or not. The fact that he didn't write a complete bibliography of his sources isn't enough to warrant the attack -- and it is an attack, whether you realize it or not.

That's it.

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