View Full Version : Rigging Critique

05 May 2011, 08:20 AM
This a current project being developed for a fellow student, Alex Kolakowski, at The Art Institute of Vancouver. My duty in the pipeline has been to rig, and weight the model he has made.

Any critique on the rig or weighting would be helpful at this point.

Thank you for watching.

P.S. This is my first post, and I did have trouble finding an appropriate place to post a Rigging, WIP.


05 May 2011, 11:43 AM
hey nice set up i love how you used the helper joints for nice deformations like in the biceps and shoulder blades . but i think the jaw is placed in the wrong place

05 May 2011, 08:19 PM
hey nice set up i love how you used the helper joints for nice deformations like in the biceps and shoulder blades . but i think the jaw is placed in the wrong place

I've double-checked the file after reading your comment. My pivot point is directly underneath the base of the ear. So that is not the issue. I feel it may be the skinning on the cluster. I will play with it to acheive more solid movement.

As this is the base model for larger, more detailed binds, getting this one right is very important. If anything, no matter how small of a detail, is off, please, feel free to let me know.

05 May 2011, 08:54 PM
yeah it might be the skinnign but the impression i got it was when you move the jaw over natural position like for "over close" the jaw . also the base of the ears is not always the best spot it depends where the ears are XD so actually i dont remember where the ears are but maybe you can post a side view screen shot so ppl can check

05 May 2011, 10:04 PM
Here is a side veiw of the characters head. I have the pivot point selected, while in bind pose.

05 May 2011, 04:50 AM
yeah i feel the jaw like lover of it should be can u give us a couple of screenshot of the closed geometry?

well you can make a couple of test . there is a tool in maya called move skinned bones tool you can try in move your jaw around and see if different position gives you better result

05 May 2011, 05:31 AM
Ok, so what I did, was just play with a few different pivot points. Because I'm using clusters and not bones for the movement, I was easily just able to move the pivot point, via "d" key. I'm happy with th new location of the pivot, it also allows the jaw to move left, right, and twist a bit better.

Thaks for the help, I didn't realize anything was actually wrong, untill I went ahead and played with it. Now, I'm one more step closer to finishing this rig.

05 May 2011, 11:45 AM
no problem man rembeber there are no absolute rules in rigging sometimes you have to break them . like in this case but there are several common spots for bones . glad to help :)

05 May 2011, 02:08 AM
You have some creative ways of solving deformation problems that usually occur.

Some advice for you though would be watch your joint placement. Looking from the angles in your video it seems most of your joints are slightly off. The very obvious ones are the knees, ankle, wrist and elbows as these ones are usually in the center of the mass. Think about a leg or an arm as a pillar holding up the torso. It would need to have sturdy support to hold something as heavy as a torso. Since a leg or arm bends it needs to move from a central hinge point to hold the body up when its straight. This goes for the spine as well (yours does look alright in the video) but just remember when you have a fat character to imagine where the spine would be if they were skinny.

As for the jaw, a person's mandible pivots from just infront of there ear canal. The head is what actually pivots from below/behind the ear.

This script might help shift your joint positions around. It resets the skincluster to the original bind position after you have moved it.

I really like how the scapula area moves. Good work.

05 May 2011, 03:20 PM
Your deformations look good, but i'd like to see some extreme movement, possibly a true ROM and an action animation. Walking, running, fighting etc..

05 May 2011, 03:51 PM
Your deformations look good, but i'd like to see some extreme movement, possibly a true ROM and an action animation. Walking, running, fighting etc..

I have recently set up this character for MoCap as well. A fellow student will be editing this part in upcoming weeks. And as I am told, yet another student will be bringing that data into a full shot. So, within the next 6-7 weeks, I should have a full peice done in that regards. I will post it when I can, and credit those who are responsible.

Also, there are two, higher poly models, of the same character, which I will be showing the deformations for, within the same time frame.

05 May 2011, 11:14 PM
o wow, colored skeleton, haven't seen that in a while, hehe.. anyhow, hey Corey,

nice rig overall and good use of helper joints.
one or two things from my end:
i agree with hogstud on a few things. although placement of the joints is a subject to debate (there really is more than one good way, especially for elbows, knees and other one-way joints), the ankle is a little off. that one should in this case really be somewhere in the middle of the volume.
second, i would definitely insert metacarpals for the pinky and ring finger, as without them, you cannot properly cup the hand (which you might not need for the shot, in which case, you don't really need them).
another thing is, you might consider inserting one extra helper joint for the hip areas for when the leg goes more up, to preserve the volume. with quaternion skinning, i achieved satisfactory results with just one joint for the hip, but i was rigging a skinny woman, not this monster of a man ^^
last, the biceps and triceps helper joints are moving nicely, and is probably alright for what you guys are planning with this rig (not going photoreal i presume), but i wanted to leave you with a final thought.. think about real arm... the sliding happens under skin, the skin itself stays for the most part on the same spot. just something to think about for the future if you were going more pro on something..

and of course the deformations you got right now differ from the ones you would have on denser meshes, so post the hi-polys here when u got them :)
and i presume the shoulderblades, along with your additional deformations, are done with clusters?

a decent rig. now do that with a script ;)

05 May 2011, 12:24 AM
Allright, so I guess I'll start with the shot. As far as I know, it's really just this guy staggering down a long hallway. As he is a zombie, he will have more of a dragging feel about him, I assume, allthough, I don't know what the plans are there. He won't really be interacting with anything other than the walls, of the hallway, brushing up against them.
In this case, yes I will need to move the ankle, as I think he may be dragging his feet.
Also, I did actually add another helper joint when skinning the high poly hip today. And instead of using constraints to tie it in, I simply used an IK handle, parented to the leg joint. It gave me a much more controlled and smooth deformation in the hip.
As for the shoulder blades, I used another joint chain, with an IK handle attached. I ws introduced to this setup in Rick Grandy's "Digital Character Physiology" tutorial. I beleive the scene name was "Shoulder Offset". It seems to work quite well, as knobody has complained as of yet, and I feel quite content with the results. (Knock on wood.)

I should have the next bit of weights painted in the next week or so. Now, that being said, I won't be able to post any video like the last one, untill I have finished my other 3 projects for school. Once those are done, I will post the other two binds, and I will welcome critiques on those as well.
Thanks everyone, keep the critiques coming.

05 May 2011, 02:57 AM
cool, just keep it simple, but okay for the animators and you'll be in good shape...

btw, what was your nick on the forums? i was on GMC 2011 too :)

05 May 2011, 01:35 AM
cool, just keep it simple, but okay for the animators and you'll be in good shape...

btw, what was your nick on the forums? i was on GMC 2011 too :)

I'm not sure what GMC 2011 is.

05 May 2011, 05:37 AM
Gnomon Master Classes 2011, which the Rick Grandy's course was a part of.

o well, i guess you're not the only one who rather downloaded the lesson than paid for it, which is a shame, cuz the most, i learned from the forums, that you can't download anywhere...

anyhow, let us know how the rigging goes..

05 May 2011, 06:40 AM
Sorry about that. Being a student, I need all the resources I can get. I don't condone downloading anything at all, but at this point in time, I don't have the money to afford that sort of thing. I do really need the instructing, and critiques.
It's impossible to explain the reasoning behind this sort of thing. I only feel, that once my training in school is complete, I will once again be able to afford instructional, and informative tutorials, and once again contribute to this wonderful industry.

Thak you for your critiques, they have been extremely helpful, and I will be posting again, with more updated work on this subject in the comming weeks.

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