View Full Version : Vue 8.5 Maya Integration, Final Gathering Problem
09 September 2010, 09:16 PM
I have a problem with Final Gathering in Maya. I have black spots on Maya's objects. I try to illuminate my scene in Maya with a Vue environment. If I use Final Gathering I have this problem. If I uncheck cast shadows in Vue, it works perfectly. Please Help ...
09 September 2010, 01:45 AM
I've never seen that issue you're getting... it certainly seems like a plugin problem. try contacting a technician at E-On, they're very quick to get onto things like this :)
09 September 2010, 07:04 PM
I'm so glad I found this topic, I have pretty similar problem :( Whenever I try to integrate Vue scene into Maya I have TONS of problems.
And after days and days of tweaking and testing I realized that I only have 2 options out of which none works totally :(
First one is to use Vue's light only, without any Maya sun's or lights and I somehow manage to set it all up nicely but the only problem is that when I zoom too close towards the shadows that Vue trees/objects cast on Maya objects they disappear gradually...the closer I am the less shadows there are and finally if I zoom really close they all disappear at that region :S?
Second approach is to use good old Maya's native physical sun and sky(and I MEAN GOOD OLD cause I never saw more realistic sun light illumination, shading and shadows than Maya's Physical Sun and Sky with Final Gather).
And I somehow manage to set it all up and it all looks so awesome EXCEPT FOR THIS PROBLEM, I also have dark spots wherever the shadow casted by Vue objects falls on Maya's objects...of course only when used final gather.
But then I realized that by going to Vue's meni inside of Maya and pressing file/options and under Render Options tab you have section called "Final Gather Matching", where when I check the first one I got rid of those spots(btw your camera must have attached mia_physicalsky1 on its Environment Shader, and vue7xStreamEnvMRShader on its Volume Shader in order for this to work).
But then the whole scene is spoiled and its not anymore realistic its too illuminated(even for my flashy standards :D) and the tint and shadows on Maya objects are simply too much different than shadows on the Vue ground, thus making it look very unrealistic.
The only alternative is to simply decrease Multiplier in Maya's PhysicalSky to about 0.4 and change its RGB channels slightly so it matches the atmosphere and tint of your scene...-_-
Thank you for opening this thread and I am looking forward to any updates on this topic, I am really eager to help as much as I can and as much as I understand this whole Maya+Vue relation so far, and I also hope somebody else will find out something that I don't know and hopefully together we'll get the ultimate result that we all want.
P.S.Another problem with the second approach explained above is that shadows that Vue objects cast on Maya objects are always noisy at their surfaces, and those same shadows that fall on Vue's native objects are perfectly sharp smooth and looking great :S
EDIT: Ok thats it, after months and months of unsuccessful results(actually without a SINGLE fully successful render and I am not even joking) with Vue and Maya, I am on the brinkest brink of quitting using Vue FOREVER! I have never seen more unreliable unstable unpredictable and buggy software in my entire life.
Unless I somehow find a fully reliable workaround within next month(which is extreeemely unlikely) or unless I am shown a tutorial of Vue and Maya integration which shows and proves that it PERFECTLY WORKS without a single bug, I am not going back to it ever again. PERIOD.
10 October 2010, 08:01 PM
Vue xStream for Maya is a joke. Not only is the integration flawed from the ground up, but the results you'll achieve using Vue's foliage and textures is not worth the time and effort and endless workarounds.
Better to just use Maya and MR or Vray, which have no problems dealing with huge forests (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=87&t=804892) on their own!
10 October 2010, 10:43 PM
^You don't have an idea of how much I agree with you. And all this time I was also referring to Vue xStream particularly, of course.
I respect people who make applications for CG, I can imagine how hard that is, so I am sorry about a lot of ranting on Vue xStream but I just have to...since it SIMPLY DOESN'T WORK! why making it publishing it officially and claiming its a fully functional package if ITS NOT!?
However I am extremely interested in what you said about Mental Ray and Vray, as I'm still under impression that Mental Ray and Maya fur/grass and huge forests with lots of trees(and pretty much anything similar) just don't go together well, at least from my own experience.
So to avoid any further off-topic can you please provide me with some kind of link/tip via pm/example/approach on how to deal with huge forests(and similar stuff) in Mental Ray or maybe even Vray but I personally prefer Mental Ray as it gives me more realistic results in my opinion, although Vray seems much more stable. I use mip_binaryproxy for static trees and such, but I have no clue on how to do animated proxies and grass on non-flat terrain and such.
Of course I do not expect you to make the entire tutorial or something, I need just a quick direction towards the appropriate topic/site, so I could investigate on it further, as I didn't have a lot of success googleing it.
I would appreciate the help very much.
10 October 2010, 11:12 PM
I posted this link in my previous post, but this is the forum on Forests in Mental Ray (for Maya) (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=87&t=804892). A long read, but worth every page. We cover instancing, proxies, plant and leaf shaders and techniques, as well as realistic tree creation, something you won't see in Vue at all, and something they don't seem to care about. There are certain limitations with animation, but one "workaround" for that would be to use 3DS Max and Onyx TreeStorm, then export back to Maya or just use Max/mental ray/Vray. I don't do animations much myself.
Rendering is of course much, much faster using mental ray. I won't say infinitely faster, but compared to Vue, it'll feel like it. And you can tune MR so heavily that a scene can take minutes and still give a decent result at screen resolutions.
Here's a personal example from my shader test-scene. The goal is that if a plant looks good in this scene, it's "ready" to be exported out to my libraries to use in other scenes. That said, I'm not happy with my pine shaders, but otherwise you should get an idea of the clarity and level of detail possible. And this is just a quicky:
Trees I made in Onyx, and the flowers, but all other plants are done inside Maya itself. Kinda cartoony in this render, but you get the picture.
Here's another example from the current Lighting Challenge, although my entry isn't finished, you can see how Maya and MR are working very well. The leaves in my scene here were made from photographs of my own basil plants! Sure, basil trees don't exist, but I liked the leaves and thought they'd be fun to use in this scene:
A lot of people get upset when I post in the Vue forums because they don't like the criticism, but I'm not criticizing the artists, simply the tools. And people struggling with xStream in Maya need to know that they already have the tools for this type of work, and that it's not their fault that xStream sucks. It's Eon's fault. This application shouldn't have ever cleared beta, at least for the Maya versions. Vue standalone (or Infinite) is a great program but still has severe limitations, and if you're already proficient with Maya, you don't need that one either.
10 October 2010, 09:42 AM
Comrade InfernalDarkness, you just saved my life! Thank you sooo much!
That's what I've been searching for...I always wanted to have a huge forestes-approach inside Maya itself so I could render it with Mental Ray, and this is just that.
"I posted this link in my previous post"
Yes, I obviously didn't notice that its a link and not just the underlined text.
Your shots look really nice, if you do that within Maya and rendered using Mental Ray only, all I can say is thanks! thanks for the proof that rendering forests/big outdoor scenes in Mental Ray is absolutely possible!
Also best luck with the entry, it looks very nice! :)
10 October 2010, 09:42 AM
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