View Full Version : Characters: bad guys!!

08 August 2003, 12:23 AM
Sorry about the nazi tone, but these are baddy designs for a comic I'm working on. My last post seemed to woory more about the theme and not the art. So C&C on the art please and thanks to all who view my stuff.

08 August 2003, 03:18 AM
syklonis sorry to say this, but if you would like crits on your work, I strongly suggest you censor those symbols are I'll have to remove this post. Please do so immediately thank you.


09 September 2003, 08:12 PM
come on guys..............what symbols nazi's .........its art for crying out loud........offensive language is something else but.......symbols.....come on guys....

nice work dude...........

09 September 2003, 08:21 PM
All images well done.
I think your third concept is the strongest. It has a great perspective and great potential.
I agree with Phoenix that censorship is lame.
lildragon is right, however...If that's what the masses want than it must be done.

"The few must make sacrifices to benefit the many"
It's just the way it works.
Try inserting your own evil symbol...
Maybe like...:thumbsdow or :annoyed: ... or maybe you could think of something better...

Nice images!:thumbsup:

09 September 2003, 08:32 PM
nice drawing of the chick.. the soldier, has mushy rendering IMO,, use some sort of "sharper" technique to make the metal crisper.

the alien-ish guy doesnt seem to fit in at all.. thats "weird" compared to the other stuff

you can get away with using a symbol that isnt a swastika.. try designing your own.

hmm tough call about the censorship IMO.

the swastika i beileve is an arabic symbol origanly? (means good luck im sure) depends how its displayed (and i think its direction CW,CCW).

too bad Hitler used it.. from a design standpoint, its very eye catching.

09 September 2003, 03:36 PM
Originally posted by phoenix
come on guys..............what symbols nazi's .........its art for crying out loud........offensive language is something else but.......symbols.....come on guys....

nice work dude...........

I agree completely. Censoring the artwork because of a symbol is plain outrageous. Next are you gonna start deleting posts of artwork you dont like? I mean come on. :thumbsdow

Nice sketches, i like the 2nd and 3rd sketches best. the first isn't as refined as the others...doesn't look near as finished.

09 September 2003, 07:28 PM

its not an arabic symbol

swastika- also known as crux gammata.......widely regarded as a symbol of good furtune......

word drived form sanskirt....meaning of well bring.....

other than Islam, christianity...and judism

it was widely mesopotamian, creten, mayan, navajo, celtic, hindu, jain, buddist...

its clockwise direction signifies sun movement through the heavns and therefore emobdy solar principle....

in native america it shows all the directions and their winds....

so and so

the reason i wrote the above eassy....was to show the huge mythological signifiicance of this symbol...sad Hitler used it for his whom freaky stuff...........

anyway no offence...

09 September 2003, 07:30 PM
I really like the image of the woman with the blade...Nice work on the anatomy and i love the pose...The pointer finger sticking out on hand holding sword is a nice touch, Adds a little more life to the image however subtle it is...As for the symbols, it is a part of world history...I do admit that it holds some strong feelings for some people, but so does Sept 11th...Are we gonna censor any cityscapes that have the twin towers in them? Or how about the American flag...You can bet there are some Native Americans that look upon that with as much contempt as the world sees nazis...Not everyone can be protected from the thoughts that hound them in their dreamz...

09 September 2003, 08:53 PM
I really like the third one. It has an interesting, raw style. Although I have to agree the alien creature looks a bid out of place. Doesn't look very threatening...

I also agree with MindKontrol, these pieces shouldn't be censored, after all it is art, and part of history we need to accept.
If Anything, maybe put a little warning in the title, as we do with pictures containing nudity or violence.

09 September 2003, 10:33 PM
Cool designs :)

I also agree that this should not be censored because of symbols. Ok I must say I'm from a generation that did not experience WW2 it might be offensive for older people or people from etnic/religious groups that were extermined during the war. It might be offensive to these people.

I just wonder why you picked naxi symbols.
Yes they work well to symbolise an allmighty evil force, but it gets rather clichematic. Killzone from guerilla games also uses this reference to the third reich and there are lots of other games/artists referring to it.

So maybe it's nicer to develop your own look that has this totalitarian regime feel, without using nazi or other historic symbols.

Jawine :)

09 September 2003, 02:58 AM
I have to be honest I don't really like any of them (and it has nothing to do with the symbol). They are all completely derrivative of something. I can't put my finger on them precisely, but I just feel like I've seen all this before, many times.

The first one looks like it was lifted right out of some anime, I've seen that Mecha-Nazi shock trooper look like done to death. Jin Roh? I think I saw something just like it in an RTCW screenshot as well, off the top of my head, but it doesn't end there.

The second one doesn't seem to fit at all with the rest, I suuppose it's some sort of alien, but I don't like the chimpish look of the lower face. Everything else you drew has an anime-like style, and this one doesn't fit at all.

The 3rd one... Neon Genesis? I don't know, I don't watch anime at all but that's what it looks like to me. One of those Neon Genesis Robots with a schwasitka on it.

The last one is the best renderered, however, I've deffinitely seen that pose before, and the character I just don't get. It just seems really gratuitous. Also, it's a character design and we can't see the face.

On the symbol, unless these characters are infact supposed to be futuristic Nazi's directly related to Nazi's of the past, I'd lose the iron crosses and schwastikas. Not because I find them offensive, but because I think it's a cheap cop-out. You might as well just write "I'm a bad guy" on all the characters. It'd be much more interesting I think to come up with an insignia for this army.

Just my opinion.

09 September 2003, 08:32 PM
these are off the hook.
amazing work
I'd love to see 3d models of them : )

09 September 2003, 08:37 PM
by the way lildragon, how can you say that this work is in danger of being removed when you just put the code guardian preview on the front page. Within the first 2 seconds of the video you see the nazi symbol there on the robot. so...?? :curious:

09 September 2003, 08:55 PM
To stir up so much with just a symbol. This wasn't my idea I just wanted to get C&C off the artwork. And to those who did give feedback I appreciate it. As for the anime references, of course anyone in art should appreciate the art form and pull from its' ideas. As for poses, how many poses can one do before they're all mirrored. I didn't think I copied the girl?! Sorry to offend any if I have. It's just an idea I have and I think its a pretty good one. Yeah, I know nazi symbolism is bad and that whole era was terrible. But they make extremely good bad guys! And I don't think the genre has been done to death like so many others. It just hasn't been done cool enough. Wait till the movie Hellboy comes out. Not saying it will be cool, but I wonder how many will thrash it because of the nazi's in it? I love concept design, thats why I am in the industry. You get to create really interesting images. And in the end, all I want to do is be creative...


09 September 2003, 09:01 PM
These are some pretty cool drawings. So I'm assuming it's going to be a futuristic Nazi type comic?

09 September 2003, 09:03 PM
these are cool designs. my only crit would be to give them a bit more polish, some of the rendering seems pretty splashy. My least favourite of the bunch is the alien, i think he just seems a bit mundane compared with the rest of the characters. I think he needs to exude a bit more 'creepiness' if you get my drift. As for the swastikas, they fit the characters and theme, and there is no reason whatsoever to censor them. They are nazi designs after all.....



09 September 2003, 09:11 PM
Not to make anyone upset, but I do believe it is somewhat wrong and ignorant to want to remove someones images just because there is a swatzticka(SP) in it. Lets not get the ignorant assumption going on that just because someone puts a symblol such as that in their images does not mean they are a bad person and they do not indeed mean to offend or threaten anyone. It is an artistic right for an artist to do as they wish, and display as they will in their work.

If we are a sanctuary for good online artists, I think sometimes bias must be at times put aside. After all, we are looking at art . . . Not politics. LOL!

09 September 2003, 01:48 AM
C'mon Lil'dragon, there's no need to be oversensitive here, it's obvious from the work, and from what he said when he posted he isn't trying to incite anything. I for one think the characters are pretty well designed (except for the alien, but maybe it's cus his composiktion on the page isnt as strong as the others) Again I don't think these should be censored, we see the same things in MOHAA, RTCW and many more, plus, this is an art forum, and artists are SUPPOSED to be open minded :)

09 September 2003, 03:03 AM
There is actually a form of protest going on, over the negative aspect of this symbol. People have started to try and wear the symbol again, in the hopes of bringing back the true meaning of this symbol, which in general is a sign of peace and happiness. I have always known it as the Manji symbol... a budhist symbol meaning peace. I dont think that the nazi's should be forgotten.. they are a good lesson for the future generations.. but the stigma surrounding this symbol should.

On the actual art.. :)

I agree with what has mostly been said.. The Alien seems out of place, but of course, I have no idea what your story is, so I can't really make this critique honestly, since I really have no idea... I really like the designs though..

We should respect the boards policy though, which is basically nothing that could possibly offend soembody, which this could. If anything, take out the nazi symbol for the critique, but keep it for the final production.
The impression I get, is that this board, isn't a sanctuary for artists... it is a place to get critique, and keep up to date with the current 3d and 2d related worlds... Lil'Dragon isnt trying to censor your vision, he's just trying to maintain the boards policy. Sadly, in the past, as soon as you let one particular person slide, then everybody tries to slide, then you have chaos...

09 September 2003, 07:34 AM
Originally posted by syklonis
As for the anime references, of course anyone in art should appreciate the art form and pull from its' ideas.

OK, I don't want you to take this the wrong way, this is just my opinion, nothing personal. The majority of anime is garbage and "pulling" from it will stunt you creatively. What you're showing here is very unoriginal. You're not creating, you're emulating, and the stuff you've chosen to emulate has been done and redone to death. If this is what you like to do, what you consider "art", that's fine. You have to please yourself above all. Just understand alot of people don't view this type of work, or anime in the same light.

As for poses, how many poses can one do before they're all mirrored. I didn't think I copied the girl?! Sorry to offend any if I have. It's just an idea I have and I think its a pretty good one.

I'm not calling you a thief, I think the girl is actually well rendered. I know, though, I have seen that exact pose somewhere and can't put my finger on it. It's vividly familiar to me. If you did use something for inspiration please cop to it for my mental health because everytime I look at it, I rack my brains trying to remember where I saw it. My real problem is that's it's derivative. I've seen the post apocalyptic bare breasted, tattooed Nazi chick done a few times. Dark Knight Returns, M1A1, and a third comic (Kelvin Mace??) who's name is escaping me at the moment, all in the 80's off the top of my head.

[B]Yeah, I know nazi symbolism is bad and that whole era was terrible. But they make extremely good bad guys! And I don't think the genre has been done to death like so many others. It just hasn't been done cool enough. Wait till the movie Hellboy comes out. Not saying it will be cool, but I wonder how many will thrash it because of the nazi's in it?/B]

That's exactly what I meant when I said throwing a schwastika on them was a cop out.... the perfect bad guy thing.

You went and brought up Mignola, now there's the perfect example to contrast what you've done here. Mignola is highly original. You don't look at his work and feel like you've seen it all before. Also, he doesn't use Nazi's because the make extremely good bad guys. He uses Nazi's because they provide fertile ground for the stories he wants to tell. I have no idea what it is your comic is going to be about, so maybe these characters work. However, you have to understand that in the context of Mike's work, Nazi's make perfect sense. That's why he doesn't get flak and probably won't get flak.

09 September 2003, 01:06 AM
I appreciate your feedback I do. I do emulate, and try to create as much as I can. My comic idea will make since if it was told to you. The use of nazis is apart of my story. Just as in hellboy. Its an era I am doing. Flashing from the past to the future. So that is why I am using them. These are just initial concepts anyways. I am still developing everything, since my story is mainly done. So hopefully when i do produce final concepts they will be accepted or at least be liked. I plan on posting more soon, hopefully you'll reply to those posts too. I am intrested if you'll like other stuff of mine.


09 September 2003, 07:13 AM
very nice. i like the third guy best, hes incredible, at least the part thats finished

and the swastikas may be offensive to some, but they arent used in a hateful way in these pictures, these are bad guys like he said, and its part of the whole theme.

09 September 2003, 07:43 PM
verry good stuff :thumbsup:

I like the skinny guy and the girl verry much.
keep working on the third guy (Want to see him finished).

again.. great work, love youre style. :thumbsup:

09 September 2003, 11:55 PM

good work dude! stuff what people say about that symbol or whatever they feel about. You do ur thing and others can give feedback but ultimately you will have to make final call.

I really like the chick, she's got style not sure about others though.

i sort of agree with mcronin, but not sure about him saying ur stuff is not original. yeah it's been done before and sure we have seen some similar things. but don't we all need to go through this kind of stage to produce highly original work?? we all know it takes huge amount of time and effort to be good.

The majority of anime is garbage and "pulling" from it will stunt you creatively. I am really not sure if you got that right. I have seen amazing anime stuff, but also have seen some crap stuff from all forms of art. it's not right to say anime style just lacks creativity.

09 September 2003, 03:03 AM
Some of the best artists in the world regard anime as some of the best stuff out there.

09 September 2003, 12:09 AM
i like the 3rd one down the best. looks like using that simbol is making your art controversial. i like it.

09 September 2003, 01:42 AM
NOO000!! :shame:

No false-moralism here PLEASE! Leave the symbols alone! The more you try to prohibit them , the more they will be used. Its always like that, always has been. Probably will always be this way. Its not about the symbols but how people get them. Dont take it personally and the symbols will never hurt anyone.

I think that boring s*** between nazi and jewish ( ...or whoever declares itself a victim of the nazi regime...) turned out to be a big BULSHIT after some period since WWII ended. Its over, and everytime u point it out as an evil and ofending thing, the more you are reviving all the bad s*** it ment to mean in a given part of mankind history.

Its like black and white racism, everytime each of one of the sides speculate that oneīs act could be racism, you are just intensifying the racism itself. Its like a snowball, so lets not disturb the balance.

Forget about it and let the artistīs express their work with the symbology that they want to be used.

I like the characters very much, specially the girl! Congrats!

:wip: :wip: :beer:

09 September 2003, 01:43 AM
excellent art ,:buttrock:

09 September 2003, 03:52 AM
I really like the chick:drool:

As for the whole nazi thingy...why bother? you have several really nice characters there. The rendering on the first could be improved but they all stand on their own pretty well. Adding a swastika seems extremely token and removes a great deal of the need for having an actual character. Thats like making some stereotypical dark haired, black clothed villian with a slight sneer and saying villain. It just isnt that special.
By all means keep them if you really want them, but using them as a means of saying bad guy cheapens your work (addictionally I really don't see bad guy right away, maybe i'm messed up but they don't spark the sort of reaction I would want from an evil character. Check out Jin Roh for some great bad guys).

09 September 2003, 10:22 AM
Censor? This is an outrage!

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