View Full Version : Justification of copyrighting old games


Neil
08 August 2003, 03:29 PM
How long is a game copyrighted for?

I ask because I'm frustrated with trying to find old games. With systems like xbox, and DC running emulators to play old games, I've realized that it's not as bad as it sounds because it's the only way to actually play these old games.
I looked in stores, game shops, and online, and very very few stores had any decent old games. So i ask: If i can't even go out and buy a game that i want, how can the developer cry foul if i HAVE to download it to even play it?
As i see it, these ROMs are keeping the genre alive that would give current gamers no other way of playing games that came out 20+ years ago.

Are old games even considered competition with current media anyway? Meaning, is it even justified to keep copyrights on old games? Do they think that an old game like Pitfall (had it still been on the shelves) would deter sales from new games?

I would like to get other gamers perspective on this topic, and not just someone saying "laws are laws" and leaving. Thanks. :thumbsup:

danteort
08 August 2003, 03:52 PM
Many game shops sell original NES games, so there's always that route. Plus, I'm sure you could find whatever you want on E-bay. So, I don't think you could make a case, yet, for pirating old games.

Basically, if something is unavailable to purchase, it means that you don't get to have it right now. If you can't find an old game, then you don't get to play that old game. You don't all of a sudden have the right to download an illegal copy of it.

Think of out of print books. If you're dying to read some book that's out of print, you either find someone who has a copy and get it from them, or you don't get to read it. Just because it's out of print doesn't give you license to have someone scan in their copy for all to download for free.

This is my current take on it.

mattregnier
08 August 2003, 04:15 PM
I think that right now it just hasn't been long enough of a timespan. Most of the early games that came out for the atari and the vic20 and the amiga are free download. The developers have realized that they've long out grown the ability to make money off the games and release them for free. The problem with making old NES, SNES and console systems free is that the cartridges are still around. You can go to local stores or to ebay and still buy those games you want, you just have to pay a premium for them. I don't ever see the consoles going for free, or putting them into 'syndication' so-to-speak...

Dave Black
08 August 2003, 04:27 PM
From the Entertainment Software Association(ESA):

On out of print games:

"Downloading one of these games from the Internet without the authorization of the copyright holder is illegal."
-Doug Lowenstein, ESA president

Because this act is illegal, it carries with it the following reprocussions:

..."sites are directly liable for civil and criminal copyright and trademark violations. Copyright violations carry a maximum penalty of $100,000 per infringement, while trademark violations carry a maximum penalty of $1,000,000 per infringement plus attorneys fees, costs and damages. "

There is quite a thorough article here:

http://www.gamespot.com/gamespot/features/all/gamespotting/030903/7.html

While I understand in your original post that you did'nt want a response like this, certainly your question, by it's very nature, seeks to find some truth about this subject. If you only hear one side that says "it's ok", then really your question had no point other than for you to find gratification that you are correct and that it's ok to break the law.

-3DZ

:D

bentllama
08 August 2003, 04:39 PM
copyright is copyright, plain and simple. it is the law.

I personally would like the comfort in the future that someone is not stealing ideas or product from me or my hard working team members.

IMO Niel, for someone who appears to want to have a career in the games industry, you really have an odd outlook on copyright.

Signal2Noise
08 August 2003, 04:43 PM
Quick! Someone get Neil a job in a games company. Then we all can benefit from getting free games!!!! Yipeee!:D

My vote: Neil gets a job @ Bungie...:drool:

JamesMK
08 August 2003, 04:49 PM
I am having a hard time understanding why there is so much confusion about digital media - be it music, movies, applications or games or anything else that can be packaged in a single file.

Just think like this - You write a book. OK. It sits on a CD. You wrote it, so it's your book. Assume you don't want to distribute it, or assume you want people to pay you money in order to read it. OK. That's your right, because you wrote it and you own it. You own it now. You still own it 20 years from now. Nobody is allowed to make copies of your book unless you say they can. And if they pay you whatever insane amount of cash that you may ask, because it is your right as the author.

Replace the book above with something else, a movie, an application, a game - and replace 'you' above with 'publishing company X'.

I'm not trying to be nasty or personal here... Just some sort of clarification.

Neil
08 August 2003, 05:11 PM
Well my point is that i DO want to pay for the games, as i stated before. That's why i am still looking to this day, but still to no avail.

The copyright is imposed to make the company money (yes, and to protect the concept of the artist, but is anyone going to 'steal' the idea behind ET for atari?). But what is it protecting? NO ONE even makes games that look like pitfall anymore?! The architecture of those games is dead too.

3dz: Yes i agree, i want both sides, that's why this is a discussion. I only took this side because it's already been argued in a favor FOR the copyright hundreds of times (but mainly is aspect of music).

I didn't say i did it, merely that i know of it.

danteort: You bring up books as an example. Could you pick up a book from 1920 and still read it at will? Yes. Has the process of reading or writing changes more than marginally in any recent time? Even if 10 years down the road i find an Atari cartridge in my closet, i couldn't do anything with it. They dont' even make the systems to allow me to play it. If they kept making systems or even allowed for specialty ordering through warehouses then it would be a lot easier and make a lot more sense.

Music is kinda the same way. I CAN actually go and buy a Mozart CD and listen it to because they have managed to keep in a format that is up to date and usable.

Gaming moves much faster than books and music. They DATE QUICKER too.

Bent: You just had to say that to annoy me didn't you? :) But in reference to your second point (which is what i wanted to hear) The team that makes games now for Bungie is not going to be the same 20 years from now. (maybe so, but i know for a fact that the teams that made the old games aren't)
If the company that made the game is dead, then who are you stealing' from?

signal: haha, but no. You won't get free games from any company. But i don't put any value on old projects i made 15 years ago. It's too dated. I look at it for memories and ideas, but if i'm still sitting on work that is 15 years old and expecting it to carry me through life, then I'm gonna be going nowhere quicker.
I do work on homebrew games. So yes, i do let others benefit from me for free. But i'm different than a real game company, and i understand that.

Gentle Fury
08 August 2003, 05:18 PM
For some reason the overlying sentiment on this board whether examined, discussed or otherwise is crying THIEF!!!!!!!!

This is wrong!

Sometimes the laws are just not applicable to some circumstances! Not to say, yeah go get all the atari and nintendo roms you want, its ok.......no, thats not true, because they are still publically available! You can still go to stores that deal in old games and get them. Hell you can still get the systems to run them.

Now, what about the old classic computer games we all loved that are no longer available at all......there is no way you could ever purchase them legally if you wanted......but basically because of the way of todays copyright system (thanx to disney ;) ) you are going to have to wait 95 years before you can legally obtain these games without paying the nameless and faceless entity that owns said copyright!!!!

Well, lets see, some of the original games date back to about 1978, soooooo, that means those old old games that were really fiun and could really inspire new game developers will not be available to be played again until 2073!!!!!! Is that right???

I'm sorry, but that is not how progress works!!

There are games that came out in the mid-90's that were amazing, fun, creative and original that were stashed away by their fallen developers to dwindle into obscurity. I for one don't think that is right! Why should art be put out of the reach of the public because noone is making a buck off of it anymore????

Read the Scratchware Manifesto

http://www.the-underdogs.org/scratch.php

Written by game developers that want to make good games without the developemental moguls that have taken over the industry.

I'm sorry, believe it or not, the game industry is becoming as much a behemoth as the music industry! People are losing their rights to enjoy the past, not because it is taking money out of someones pocket, but merely because its NOT putting money in the pocket of someone who's hands arent even out!!

Not all laws that apply truly apply properly in all instances.....isnt this something we have learned thru the years??

bentllama
08 August 2003, 05:23 PM
It is fine to have a personal opinion, and I respect that...
but like countless other debates surrounding digital media copyright, what this conversation comes down to is your personal opinion vs. the law.

X3M
08 August 2003, 05:25 PM
Last time I had checked it was lifespan of an artist/owner plus 25 years. Something like this, it used to be 17 years but when we went digital everything changed.

Boone
08 August 2003, 10:19 PM
The reason these old games are copyrighted is because the developer MAY wish to make a new edition of a certain game they made X amount of years ago...

You can also find abandon-ware at "www.the-underdogs.org"...which contains lovely games such as "lure of the Temptress", "SkyNet" etc...

d4rk
08 August 2003, 10:54 PM
Originally posted by Neil
If the company that made the game is dead, then who are you stealing' from?


THE DEAD!
And I know from watching movies that if you disturb the dead they will freaking haunt you man! Don't disturb their eternal rest!


;)

erilaz
08 August 2003, 11:03 PM
Sigh... another software copying debate.:hmm:

Jhonus
08 August 2003, 11:08 PM
Originally posted by Boone
The reason these old games are copyrighted is because the developer MAY wish to make a new edition of a certain game they made X amount of years ago...

You can also find abandon-ware at "www.the-underdogs.org"...which contains lovely games such as "lure of the Temptress", "SkyNet" etc...

Yeah, underdogs is a good place to go. If the game is available for purchase then it will tell you, otherwise download it.

Opinion vs. law

common sense vs. law

Signal2Noise
08 August 2003, 11:11 PM
Legal game buyer vs. Prison bitch :)

Gentle Fury
08 August 2003, 01:06 PM
Originally posted by Signal to Noise
Legal game buyer vs. Prison bitch :)

Ok, see this is the closed opinioning i'm talking about!!

This country was built on the notion that the people control the government.....not the other way around!

If laws are not right or need to be changed, then that is what needs to happen, change......if all you do is fear.....ooooo, i can't do that even though it is ridiculous and makes no sense for fear of reprimand then you end up becoming a slave to a system as opposed to a free entity!!

We are not supposed to fear our government! The government is supposed to respect us!

Unfortunatly there are SO many subserviants in the world that change is mainly for the worse now......the politicians are making the decisions for us (god that's scary!) and the people are no longer given a voice.

Neil
08 August 2003, 02:34 PM
Originally posted by erilaz
Sigh... another software copying debate.:hmm:

No, it's not. It's specifically about old games.
I already stated above that it's easier to talk about copyrighting literature and music because they are still practical to today's living style.

Yes laws are laws, but it's not like a law has never been changed. And i'm not asking for a petition or a change through this thread, merely a good explanation/discussion about why protect obsolete technology.

Boone: Well a copyright can protect distribution and concept/design seperately. It would still be illegal to make a game called Joust where you ran around on chickens, but i don't think that if someone decided to make another jousting game today that by any means it would look even CLOSE to what it looked like during the 80s.
Even in gaming today there are copyrights on designs, yet you see the same spin offs but just renaming the characters and changing the costumes.

Museums go to great spans to protect old art and literature in the hopes of showing the next generation what life and technology was like, and at this rate there is no means of protecting vintage games. They are disappering and because you can't play them on todays systems legally, then people are dumping them. Now if only there were catalogs of games, like at EA, open to the public.

arctor
08 August 2003, 03:39 PM
It would still be illegal to make a game called Joust...
the question here is WHY would it still be illegal to make a game called Joust....the only reason is that there is a copyright on it - which protects the owner from unfair competition...

Gentle fury said "I'm sorry, but that is not how progress works!!"
well actually, this is exactly how progress works.
copyrights protect the originator/owner of something from others benefiting from their work without compensation....and that includes distribution of that material - which is what downloading the game would be - illegal distribution.
so why do our laws protect people/companies in this way?
well why would I spend 100 million dollars to reasearch, develop, market, distribute etc something that someone else can just scoop up and sell themselves - they have the final product and didn't have to spend any money to create. Having exclusive rights to something ensures that I will be about to benefit from my work for a set amount of time before I have to compete with anyone - so in this way I can make back my investment.

"losing their rights to enjoy the past"....
OK, there is no right, in any country, writen in any book of law or in any constitution that gives anyone in the world the 'right' to 'enjoy the past'. This is one of my biggest pet peeves - the idea that something you want, or feel should be true is somehow a 'right' that no one can take away from you and that allows a leagal recourse. This is a big part of the reason everybody and his dog is sueing people....because they think that one of their 'rights' has been abused....
Also, all these old games are NOT art...they are a product, owned by a company/person that DOES have the right to sell, distribute it etc, their may be 'artistic' merit to these games - but make no mistake they are 'product' first, 'art', a very distant second.

bentllama
08 August 2003, 03:48 PM
Originally posted by Gentle Fury
Ok, see this is the closed opinioning i'm talking about!!

This country was built on the notion that the people control the government.....not the other way around!

If laws are not right or need to be changed, then that is what needs to happen, change......if all you do is fear.....ooooo, i can't do that even though it is ridiculous and makes no sense for fear of reprimand then you end up becoming a slave to a system as opposed to a free entity!!

We are not supposed to fear our government! The government is supposed to respect us!

Unfortunatly there are SO many subserviants in the world that change is mainly for the worse now......the politicians are making the decisions for us (god that's scary!) and the people are no longer given a voice.

WTF does that have to do with someone's individual property? it is the people that voted and rallied for laws to protect their individual thought, products and right to make a living!

so many people today think that everything should be handed to them, for free! I mean the major foundation of the economy is based upon the fact your PAY for services and items you need...
you wouldn't walk into a store and demand last years fashions for free, so why the hell is it different for digital media?

Is it because it is not tangible? Is that why there are so many people out there stealing satellite and cable signals and not feeling guilty...because it is not TANGIBLE? and why do people feel righteous when they do it?

give me a F-ing break. If someone was to come up with an idea, an invention, a patent... could that idea then be taken by someone else? no.

these laws are in place to protect the person with the IP or product from unscrupulous individuals and everyday thieves.

and as for the "subserviant" comment...dude, it is called civil order...

EDIT: oh, and it is funny that your signature includes a quote from Buddha, because your opinions do not reflect a buddhist moniker...

Boone
08 August 2003, 07:07 PM
Look, guys - if you don't like what is happening, then just make a freeware tribute game. Its perfectly legal as long as you give due credit to the original's creators etc. And state that the game is not to be sold in any form.

All that stands in your way is obtaining Visual C++, MSPaint and the DirectX SDK...oh, and notepad!!!

You'know - I know feel like making Dragon Spirit 3!:cool:

Gentle Fury
08 August 2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by bentllama
WTF does that have to do with someone's individual property? it is the people that voted and rallied for laws to protect their individual thought, products and right to make a living!

so many people today think that everything should be handed to them, for free! I mean the major foundation of the economy is based upon the fact your PAY for services and items you need...
you wouldn't walk into a store and demand last years fashions for free, so why the hell is it different for digital media?

Is it because it is not tangible? Is that why there are so many people out there stealing satellite and cable signals and not feeling guilty...because it is not TANGIBLE? and why do people feel righteous when they do it?

give me a F-ing break. If someone was to come up with an idea, an invention, a patent... could that idea then be taken by someone else? no.

these laws are in place to protect the person with the IP or product from unscrupulous individuals and everyday thieves.

and as for the "subserviant" comment...dude, it is called civil order...

EDIT: oh, and it is funny that your signature includes a quote from Buddha, because your opinions do not reflect a buddhist moniker...

ok, i think you are missing the whole point of this discussion, it has nothing at all to do with copyright infringement and whether someone is hurt by it, it is about the fact that there are some really good games that noone will ever see again because of laws made to protect the artist. Meaning that basically you are no longer protecting anyone as noone is selling it anymore..........all it is doing is hiding it away so noone can ever enjoy it again.

It's like if all of a sudden they decided to take all the classic paintings of the past and put them in storage so that noone could enjoy them, but protect the families rights of the people that painted them.

It makes no sense! Noone is profiting on these old games anymore!!!!! If they were it would make sense.....do you really think the original creators of these old games are sitting back saying......alright, now noone will ever again get to enjoy the games i busted my ass to make again, and i will never be able to make another dime off of them.......hmmmm, i feel so much better and secure :)

Think about this bent......it's 30 years in the future, you are long since retired and the xbox is a faded memory. People still remember the games you worked so hard on, but seeing as how things have progressed they are really worth nothing monetarily on the market......but there is a big audience that still wants to be able to play them. How happy are you gonna be to say......yup those games i slaved over are now safe and secure in obscurity........thank goodness copyright laws are exactly the same for everything even though everything is not the same.

I think once again this discussion has fallen into the realm of......well this is the law, so there is no use at all discussing it. Well, isnt the point of a discussion to discuss...........you arent supposed to have discussion breakers and stoppers you are supposed to say.......i see your point, now here is where i think you are wrong....then ellaborate. Not just, the law says this so you are wrong!

And no, this has nothing at all to do with tangibility. If that were the case then it would be the same as me saying, hey, dl all the mp3s you want, or go dl Halo 2 before it comes out.....i can't touch it, so it can't hurt anyone. And this isnt like going to a store and asking for last years fasion..........you can still buy pants from the 70's and you can still where them, as the act of wearing clothes has not changed at all.

Now comes the debate..........well you can still find all these old games somewhere ie. garage sales......flea markets......yes you are right. Now comes my sides. First, a lot of these old classics came on 5" floppies..........i dont know about you, but i dont have a 5" floppy drive on my comp. Then comes the other question to that........even if you could say go to a garage sale and pay for an old game, and somehow you are able to actually play it...........wouldn't it still be exactly the same as dling it.....i mean sure you paid money for it, and that may make you feel like you arent stealing......but the creator of the game, the holder of said copyright that you are so boldly defending never saw a penny in that transaction. So once again, if you wanted to truly stand behind your beliefs, if the creator is no longer selling it, well, it shall now fall into oblivion and noone will ever "legally" be allowed to play it again.

Do you know why sites like www.the-underdogs.org are around? (and they've been around for many years now) Since abandonware is technically illegal shouldnt they have been shut down by now? Well the reason, is that if a game IS still available they DONT distribute it!! They give a link to where you can buy it..........if it ISNT available they offer it for DL.........there have been several titles that have been taken off.....probably because the creators asked them to. But otherwise, everything you can dl is there because NOONE is losing ANYTHING! Noone cares! The only people that seem to care are the people that are so blinded by what they are told is right and wrong that they can't see the middle ground!

And i really don't see why it's so funny that i have a buddha quote on my sig.......i mean am i talking about hurting anyone? I am in defence of preserving an artform for others to enjoy and learn from in future generations. What is so horrible about that..........oh yeah, its against the law.....blah blah blah.

bentllama
08 August 2003, 09:04 PM
I am sorry, I mistakenly took this thread as a thread I care about...

:rolleyes:

Boone
08 August 2003, 09:09 PM
Unfortunately, guys - games will always be treated as nothing more than commerical stock. Not as an art form...

They are technically a product. You have a right to a copy if you have paid for a copy. Simple as that.

I'm currently slapping a game together which will be a freeware game as I would like everyone to say - "Now thats the result of a labour of love - not money..."

Until more freeware games come onto the internet, games will always be plagued with this "copyright" thing...:hmm:

Tex3D
08 August 2003, 02:41 AM
I'll bet that some of the people that are getting pissed about this video game thread also have mp3's that they downloaded, or movies. They may have even copied a TV show or a movie to video cassette at one point in their lives

They don't care as passionately about those cuz aren't professional musicians or actors, yet when it comes to video games the laws are set in stone right??

Hmmm....No point really...Just an observation/ free thinking:hmm:

-Dave

Don't mind me...I'll just sit here quietly:)

FloydBishop
08 August 2003, 03:00 AM
The reason that they are so strict about the videgame copyrights is that you never no when you'll need to have the rights to that thing.

They don't make Super Nintendo games anymore, and you can't buy "Donkey Kong Country" for the SNES in the store anymore, but then along came Gameboy Advance and all of a sudden the games they had on a shelf somewhere are making them money again in this "new" form.

The newer phones are getting into this as well. They don't have the power to play "Mario Sunshine" on the hardware, but "Mario Brothers" will play just fine.

ShinyObject
08 August 2003, 03:10 AM
http://www.lawtechjournal.com/notes/2002/12_020819_leung.php

somethign a little more in depth

er.. this is zack (aka epshot)

eirenicon
08 August 2003, 03:14 AM
I just want to note that even if a console is unavailable, you can still play the game. Find the cartridge, buy it, and you're allowed to get a ROM for it and play it on your computer. You don't have to own the console.

ShinyObject
08 August 2003, 03:16 AM
Originally posted by timothyD
I just want to note that even if a console is unavailable, you can still play the game. Find the cartridge, buy it, and you're allowed to get a ROM for it and play it on your computer. You don't have to own the console.

actualy.. no

since cartriges are actualy hardware game, you do not have the legal right to make a software backup. As you can with non hardware based games that come on cd's

eirenicon
08 August 2003, 04:22 AM
It is legal to make an image of a cartridge for backup purposes because what is stored on the cartridge is software. ROM, read-only memory is code, which can be copied and transfered from different storage devices.

It is illegal to emulate consoles you do not own if they have on-board ROM required to run games. Most do not, though.

Obraxis
08 August 2003, 11:58 AM
I have around 200 Amiga games bought when I was between 10 and 15. I love them dearly and still have them in their original boxes. I own an Amiga 500, 600 and 1200 but have no-where to set them up to play these classics on.

Thats why I use Emulators. Old games are great. I beleive that many of todays games lack a sence of passion by their makers. Today, it all seems to be about how many polygons can they get out of the engine, or how much shootting and killing can they cram onto the screen.

There is a thread over at Neowin.net (http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=65246) where a few people are asking the original makers for permission to post their old games online, with a number of successes.

It seems to me, that MOST companies dont seem to mind if their very old games are online and still played by people. The problem seems to come from if the makers want to continue that franshise. I for one am all for the rejuvination of 2D games, especially adventure games. 3D to me, is no longer as refreshing.

Gentle Fury
08 August 2003, 12:51 PM
Originally posted by Obraxis
I have around 200 Amiga games bought when I was between 10 and 15. I love them dearly and still have them in their original boxes. I own an Amiga 500, 600 and 1200 but have no-where to set them up to play these classics on.

Thats why I use Emulators. Old games are great. I beleive that many of todays games lack a sence of passion by their makers. Today, it all seems to be about how many polygons can they get out of the engine, or how much shootting and killing can they cram onto the screen.

There is a thread over at Neowin.net (http://www.neowin.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=65246) where a few people are asking the original makers for permission to post their old games online, with a number of successes.

It seems to me, that MOST companies dont seem to mind if their very old games are online and still played by people. The problem seems to come from if the makers want to continue that franshise. I for one am all for the rejuvination of 2D games, especially adventure games. 3D to me, is no longer as refreshing.

Thank you! That is exactly my point......the creators of those old forgotten classics want them to be played! Many of them just may not know there is still a market, or may not even care.

I know as a fact if a game maker asks one of these abandonware sites to remove a title they do.....and they link to where you can now buy it!

Neil
08 August 2003, 02:53 PM
Ok, this is going in the direction of purely copyrighting, which wasn't what i wanted. I asked about copyrighting purely to get a basis for discussion and see if we had an agreement on the facts before we continued.
I respect the community and the developers that make these games and i want them to succeed, that's WHY i am talking about this. I am NOT here just to say "go get all the games you can and share them with everyone in the world and stop paying for high priced games..blah blah"
But i'd hate to have future generations go into interviews and not know of the games that started the industry. I'm sure there will be more Castlevanias and Marios and Zeldas down the road, but I would still like future developers to play the originals and know what they used to be like. You gotta actually play the game and get a feel for what made they fun, like Excitebike, and not just look at archived screenshots.

Tex3d: First off, no i am not getting pissed. (maybe Fury :) ) Have you read any of my previous posts? I discussed this earlier, about how i do respect art from all forms, but gaming has gotten the shaft.
If i bought music on tape/lp/cd, i can convert between them all on my own and put it on a new format and still listen to it. You CAN'T do that with old games. The internet community has been nice enough to do that for most of the old games, but then everyone just starts yelling at them for promoting stealing. Well how else are you supposed to convert them if you still have the cartridge?

Originally posted by bentllama
I am sorry, I mistakenly took this thread as a thread I care about...

:rolleyes:

I wish i had the power to delete posts :rolleyes: Please, I already asked at the beginning to not post meaningless 1 line posts.
A game is not popular forever, don't be so hard-headed. Wouldn't you like people to still be talking about games you made in 20 or 30 years from now?

If you don't work with the consumers, then most likely you will be forgotten. People might remember the title, but then most likely that generation will say, "sounds cool. never played it. where can i play it at?" Maybe people will be smarter and keep their hardware; or future consols might continue to support earlier gens (like ps2 -> ps1).
If so, then this won't be an issue and I (everyone else) would be happy.
But, companies were not smart enough to think that way. (and it would probably be a hassle).

Obraxis: So you physically payed for them, but can't play them. And i'm sure that whatever website that hosts the games Rom, then most likely they won't let you download it, even though you payed for it, right?

Shinyobject: Thanks, I'll keep reading it later.

AJ
08 August 2003, 05:47 PM
There are nice games companies out there who will more often then not give you the chance to play their older (read 'classic') catalogue through various means.

Be it as an Easter egg in more modern title (Day of the Tentacle - Maniac Mansion, Donkey Kong 64 - Donkey Kong...etc.), or even as a free download.

Yes - a free download.

Rockstar (for example) allowed people to download the original Grand Theft Auto from their own website, absolutely free.

Other companies have released the source files for older titles, (Duke Nukem for example) allowing people to create ports to other systems that were never intended.

Other companies encourage people to tinker with their products (Doom, Quake, Halflife...) and some of the results can supercede/sustain the popularity of the original (Counterstrike for example).

Obviously companies can huddle everything to their chest in the hope they will once again turn into gold, but some are a little more realistic.

I am sorry, I mistakenly took this thread as a thread I care about...

How incredibly constructive... :rolleyes:

Tex3D
08 August 2003, 06:07 PM
Originally posted by Neil
[B]Tex3d: First off, no i am not getting pissed. (maybe Fury :) ) Have you read any of my previous posts?

Actually I wasn't directing that to you. I was directing it to the people that are violently opposing anything that may keep money out of their hands from the sale of games, even though we are talking about games that have already become un-sellable.

No one here is advocating stealing. All we want is to find a way to play games that are looong gone. Since these games aren't in stores anymore they are dead. All we want is to bring them to life again.

The point that I was trying to make is that some people are being SHORT SIGHTED and HYPOCRITICAL because they are involved in the games industry. I will BET that these same people have a couple mp3's or have traded CD's with someone at some point. We all do!

"Oh my God, oh my God. You all are ass holes for trying to steal money out of MY pockets, and blah blah blah." "We work hard on these games and you guys wanna blah blah blah"

Well we KNOW this! We also know that they cost $50 a pop so don't worry you'll get your friggin money.:rolleyes:

But what about 50 years from now?? What about when no one remembers the X-box or Gamecube or PS2?? Do these people REALLY want the game to die in obscurity?? All of that hard work and those hours GONE forever. Is that REALLY what they want?

Rather than say STFU and slap a copyright law handbook down on the table, there should be dialog IN the games industry. If they TRULY would rather let their hard work die out of monetary concerns than they should SAY so and quit trying to act like wounded martyrs.

-Dave

We LOVE games and we LIVE for games as much as the people making them. We want games to be around for a long time and we put up with a LOT of B.S from the game developers. Bugs....Crappy controls and cameras and yet we STILL buy these INCREDIBLY overpriced p.o.s time and time again. Does THAT sound criminal??

:annoyed:

dstripinis
08 August 2003, 06:32 PM
There are hundreds of pieces of artwork out there that will never ever see the light of day again. Whether they are in private collections or destroyed by accident or war or sabotage.

You don't get to enjoy that artwork anymore. It's sad. It may be frustrating. But your rights are not being infringed upon. You do not have a right to break into the Vatican and steal Da Vinci's unseen sketchbooks cause you want to see them and be inspired by them.

I used to work in the games industry. A couple of the games I worked on are not availiable through traditional channels anymore. ANd guess what? I would much rather they never get seen again than be stolen by someone.

Tex3D
08 August 2003, 06:38 PM
I don't think anyone is saying that it's our RIGHT to play these games.

We want to because we love them, not because we feel it is our right.

I think it'd be foolhardy to argue that it is our RIGHT to play them, but it would be a nice gesture on behalf of these game companies. As someone already posted, some companies are doing it on their own as goodwill towards the buyers of the games. The FANS so to speak.

Dave

**ANd guess what? I would much rather they never get seen again than be stolen by someone***

It is sad that you would rather let them be forgotten than LEGALLY coming to some accord with gamers so that they don't get stolen.It's your right to feel that way, so I respect your opinion, but wouldn't it be nice to find someway for your game to live on??:shrug:

Boone
08 August 2003, 06:47 PM
FACT: You are entitled to ***ONE*** backup copy of a game that ***YOU*** own. That copy is to remain in your possession...

FACT: Emulators are not illegal if you don't own the original machine. Its only the software it contains. The only exception to this is where the BIOS and original software of the machine is copied EXACTLY - Just about every emulator is writen from scratch with only "reference" to the original BIOS & software.

FACT: Strider runs better under Callus than under MAME!:p

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