View Full Version : Character: Marie rigging Update

08 August 2003, 11:45 AM
Hi all,

I have slowly been making progress on my Maire model. I have re-worked some of the textures, still got the bracers to do. Other then that I have been working on the rigging set-up. The body, etc is all done, but I still have facial morphs to do.

On my website ( ), linked on the front page is a little animation that shows a basic test. It showed up a few problems, some rigging, some that are more just tweaks on the animation, like the hair cutting through in the back view which I didn't bother to fix and re-render for the sake of a simple test.
On the 3Dimagery page is also a link to the rigging animation test, along with an old spin animation and a progress of still images.

You will need Divx 5.05 to watch the video.


08 August 2003, 08:00 AM
hmmm, well this section of CGTalk lives up to its name, the critiques are so focused, they passed right through :rolleyes:

08 August 2003, 03:41 AM
I know what you mean Tony, seems people don't like posting when there's only 1 post in the thread. That or you have to name your thread "Character: Super Sexy Female Model" or something equally as catchy :)

Marie is looking pretty good so far, but you have a bit more to do with the arms. It doesn't look like your taking the muscle movement into account. Twist those verticies a bit, and watch your own arm while you move it.

Hope this helps. You are going for realism right?

08 August 2003, 08:03 AM
Actually, you thread is properly named. But you really should give us more direction. Insted of making us go to your webpage, give us the DIRECT link.
Also let us know what you specifically want critiqued. You told us what you have done, but not what you need help on in your critique.
I have watched this, and can 't see much wrong by what little you have given us. Basically your character steps forward with the sword and then goes into a "freeze" position and you spin her really fast. Too fast to pick up on much, imo.
Give us more, and maybe we can give you more back.

08 August 2003, 11:13 AM
Corth: Yeah, starting to think I needed a hot topic heading with a nudity warning. Problem is that Marie just isn't that kind of girl :) Either that or maybe getting a copy of Poser (which I have never used) and import one of its models into max and pass it off as my own modelling work, I hear something like that can generate a lot of replies. :eek:

Which part of the arm, upper or lower arm, do you think needs more twist? The rigging gives the ability to twist both upper and lower arm, so I should have the ability to do it. Unless your thinking of more realistic muscle movements, which could be a big problem, as I don't have a muscle system.
As for trying to get a realistic character, I guess I am going more for a believable character then a truely realistic.

dmcgrath: I was thinking of a direct link, but by going to my site, one can also see a couple a recent still renders that may just show that extra detail, etc that some maybe looking for. As well as some development images.
As for the spin part being too fast, there are a couple of reasons, one is the extra render time and file size of the final animation (I only have limited monthly data transfer) and second if someone really wants to see each frame, then you can just drag the time slider in media player to see them one at a time.
Personally I would love to see some high-res and high quality encodes of 360 spins of characters done by people like Steven Stahlberg, once given the video, it's then easy to see and pull out any frame for a longer look.

As for what feedback I am looking for, well anything generally, other then the obvious like the face doesn't move, which is correct since like I said I haven't done the morphs yet. But if something specifically stands out, like I noticed the little popping of the arm pit from front view when the arms come fully down, so I got a few adjustments to make there. But after all this time, is there something else I haven't seen, which the full 360 gives everyone a good chance to see a pretty simple deformation pose from all angles.

Anyway, thanks for both of your replys.

08 August 2003, 08:09 PM
great work tony.I like your work.Though the animation buggs me a bit but hell its old fashioned animation with no mocap.But somethins wrong with the arms.Hands dont look that way,it might be a modeling problemo not rigging.wait,I'll try and gey some ref.

08 August 2003, 08:24 PM
AHA! here it is:scream:

08 August 2003, 01:25 PM
Hi mora,

Thanks for taking the time to reply, sorry I didn't answer earlier, net access hasn't been the best.

I noticed the mesh break points that you marked in your image, in fact those are not mesh breaks but the hair partly falling into the body. Unless that is what you mean by mesh break :)

Thing was I didn't even notice it till I did the spin and rendered it at full res. I assumed that the hair would have stayed in place and not cut through, still gives me a clue to check when I do more full animation later.

As for the sharp edge, yeah I saw that, also thought that I had it rendered at the low poly version, but I didn't. I am hoping it is a lighting / texture issue, becuase if it is modelling, then I'm in trouble.

Again, thanks for taking the time.

09 September 2003, 09:36 AM
Hiyaaaa!!! guess I was wrong about mesh break:scream:

I saw your tutorials,very nicely done

I get problems in rigging,my mesh deformations bugs just suck.I wonder if there is a way to easily control high polycount you have a solution for me:scream: ?

09 September 2003, 01:33 AM
hi mora,

Thanks for the comments about the tutorials, I some more interesting content to come, so stay tuned.

As for mesh deformation problems, no I don't really have a solution, as it turned out, when I had a closer look at the sharp edge on the arm, what wasn't helping, was some vertex weighting on the side of the shoulder. It resulted in a sharp point poking out.

So I guess in the end, the only real solution is to do a number of test renders.

Anyone else have a better way?

09 September 2003, 05:55 AM
not to rag or anything, but you didn't post any images, wireframes, or even what 3d program you are using. you just posted a link to a link. :eek: (there is a sticky that addresses all this).

09 September 2003, 11:15 AM
Error404: Sorry, I just thought it would have been easier to point to the site, since that has all the stuff you are asking about. However, if you really want a direct link to the animation file then:

In the case of images, etc they can all be found here:

or would you prefer a long list of links for each JPG file?

As for software used, it was 3ds max, but since I am not looking for feedback on software, I'm not really sure that matters much.


09 September 2003, 11:48 AM
Originally posted by tonygib

As for software used, it was 3ds max, but since I am not looking for feedback on software, I'm not really sure that matters much.


The reason why this was implemented is simple, so peeps that use that specific app can give you a more "focus crit" especially if they're at the professional level, and it saves the hassle of asking what app you use over and over. And since you're asking about rigging you don't think knowing which app you're using will help figure out how to overcome certain obstacles? Rigging has the same principles, but each app has it's own naunces.

As for your rigging, there's no way to crit it from that simple test, you need to get your character in motion, do some leaps, have her swing the sword or mimick a fight sequence, then you should see even for yourself where your rig "breaks". Do extreme test and take your character through a range of body motions for ie. Raise her arms over her head, chances are your rig would break at the shoulder/clavicle area, have her crouch, or run. You have to provide more if you want solid crits.


09 September 2003, 04:20 AM
Well, I am starting to think the thread title could have been a bit better. Guess I was more wondering about anything that may have standed out as wrong, like that sharp edge on the upper arm (which only showed up due to the arm movement and the spin), then any specific rigging issues.

As for knowing the specific app, I think I just looked at "focused crit" as more a this thing looks a little wrong, or that part should move more, etc. I would then go away and work it out myself or if I couldn't, then post a very specific question in the related app section. Otherwise Lildragon, it makes it sound as if, unless you happen to really know the app that was used, then you can't make a crit comment as your then expected to provide a solution to the problem as well. Or am I just reading that wrong :shrug:

Either way, it no longer really matters, this has highlighted some model issues, which I have now addressed and moved past.


09 September 2003, 05:05 AM
I've found that using a low res cage to deform the high res mesh works quite well. I know you're using Max, but check out Steven Stahlberg's method here ( It's been some time since I last used Max, so I'm not 100% sure there's a wrap/cage deformer in there (but I coulda sworn there was).

09 September 2003, 10:26 AM
hi visgoth, yeah, I am using a low-res model, with a skinning modifier being driven by bones. A meshsmooth then generates the hi-res mesh. I had looked at Steven's method before, while cool, max really doesn't seam to have the blendshapes equilvant. Especially not the way he can just transfer the deform information from one model to another. Still, can't win them all. But max does have some options to help with the deformation, none really pretty tho.

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