View Full Version : rotating clusters ( problem )

07 July 2003, 03:14 PM
I'm having a problem rotating clusters on an eye socket of a character.

Currently the scene is setup as such...

Model ( referenced )
group ( constrained to the locator in the eye )
cluster ( relative )
Orient constrained ( to a locator in the eye )

I've also tried

Model ( referenced )

Joint Head
cluster ( relative )
Orient constrained ( to a locator in the eye )

Now to the problem, The eye sockets work perfectly when the entire object is not moved. The eye movements also move the eye sockets as intended. Then once the entire rig is moved the pivot of the rotate of the clusters changes and the eye sockets move with a completely different pivot.

Now I was thinking that I had totally missed something here and I changed the pivots of the

and constraint

to the same pivot as the locator. Checking this cluster for translation the pivot did not change from the rig in its initial state to the rig being in its moved position. So if I wanted to translate the cluster I would be fine.

Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I can do to fix this cluster rotate pivot? Currently my worst case solution for this is to add two extra joints to the head in the eye sockets and paint out the weights of the joints to do the work of the clusters.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions,

Michael Ware

07 July 2003, 04:25 PM

my joint fix isn't going to work... one of the blendshapes created for the character changed the eye posistion so I need to move the actual eyes to keep them within the head.....

IE I'd have to move the joints used for the eyes... which will cause double transforms or... if left in place will not pivot from the right place.

its going to be an interesting day,....


07 July 2003, 05:44 PM
deadlines pressing so going with blendshapes set driven key'd to the various eye movements.

where there's a will theres a way aye ( will / producers boot in me back ... whats the difference ).

Still wondering about the cluster static rotate pivot issue though.


07 July 2003, 06:36 AM
Where is the cluster pivot? And is it parented under the head node so when the head turns it also pivots?

07 July 2003, 03:31 PM
Forgive me all I've realized that I haven't posted a good explaination of whats happeneing here. So here's the scenario.

I have a character that enlarges like the Hulk. When this character enlarges the eye sockets move forward and up and the eyes and eye sockets grow in size.

So in the rig I have to move the eye sockets when the character changes size.

I have a blend shape in place to change the characters size and I have a set driven key connected to the blend shape so that whenever its activated the eyes move forward. Now on to the clusters in question....

The clusters where created and made ( relative ) they where grouped unto themselves and then the group was parented to the skin. I had locators in the center of the eye that were parented to the head bone and Orient constrained the cluster to the locator so

Model ( referenced )
____group ( point constrained to the locator in the eye )
________cluster ( relative )
____________Orient constrained ( to a locator in the eye )

Rig head bone
____Locator ( in eye )
________Aim constrained to the eye control curves

Note: The groups, locators, clusters and .... constraints all had there povits moved to the same point.

This setup worked when the character was in its small state ( non puffy ). I could move the chracter rotate the eye and the eye socket without problem using the clusters. To test flexibility I could also translate the cluster and it would rotate and translate from the same pivot point.

Now the problem came into play when I puffed the character up... and his eye socket moved.

When this happened I moved the locator to a new position. This in turn moved the group, cluster and constraint as well. When I select any of these objects in the new position they all have pivots visibly located in the newly moved to position.

When I rotate the .... cluster.... the pivot seemed to move some where within the model itself ( maybe the head bone, or even to the models pivot ( I didn't have time to figure out the exact new location of the pivot due to time constraints ).

Causing telescopic eye socket problems. The interesting thing that did happen here is that if I translated the cluster in this new position....

it would translate from the correct pivot ( in the center of the eye )not the incorrect one. So while the character was puffed I had 2 seperate pivots within the cluster of the eye socket one for the translate and another for the rotate.

When the character was returned to normal size the pivots would return to the same place and the rotate and translate would happen from the same location .


Its a dozey aye!! For some reason when I moved the group contraining the cluster ( it was relative mind you ) the clusters pivot did not move with the translates pivot. After this projects done I'll try and track down what happened and see if I can provide any extra clues.


I ended up solving my problem by going an entirely different route. I created blend shapes from the working eye ( up, down, left and right ). I then deleted the current blend shape and recreated the blend shape node adding the 4 eye socket positions. Then I set driven keyed the eye socket blend shapes to key off of the eye controllers movements. Phew ... that about sums up the problem.....

Now the interesting "punch line" here is the producer on the project then decided ( 2 days after I fixed it ) that the eye sockets shouldn't move with the characters eyes. Sigh, I had to laugh that one off and go kill the eyes. Producers they want one thing one minute and another the next.

The rigging / animation continues!!!


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