View Full Version : object into the same mesh gets in the way of skinning

11 November 2008, 05:03 AM
hello everyone,

hereīs my problem. Iīm skinning a character, and this character has a t-shirt on. Itīs an open shirt, so we can see some of his chest. I wanted the shirt to follow along his movements, so before binding, I combined the shirt to the body. I binded it, and it worked like I wanted. Next step was to properly fix the skinning on some areas, like shoulders, arms, etc.

Thatīs where some problems arrive. The t-shirt gets in the way when I`m painting, I try to go around it and paint the shirt and body, but sometimes I cant get to the place I want, so some faces stick out.

I made a test, and separated the shirt from the body, and the rig remained working nicely.
I was like, great, now Iīll just skin them separetely, but somehow, I cant use the paint weights tool anymore, the influences dont show up in the list.

I hope you guys understand.

Posting some pictures bellow.

11 November 2008, 07:09 AM
it looks like the problem you are having is because the topology on the shirt is different from the topology on the body, but I don't understand why you would want them to be different, it just causes problems.

11 November 2008, 01:23 PM
hi archanex, thanks for the reply. Indeed, I had no idea having a diferent topology would give this problems, I wanted to simplify the mesh in the shirt. Itīs sort of my first time doing a full character like this. The rigging is being done using the TSM2, which works quite well, just gotta fix some skinning.

I supose I could use ncloth, does it take too long to render, or takes too long to calculate?


11 November 2008, 04:24 PM
Why have geometry at all under the shirt. Get rid of it so that it doesn't cause problems in the first place.

11 November 2008, 04:26 PM
Bruno, whats with your portfolio link?

11 November 2008, 04:44 PM
well, if you wanted to use ncloth you may want to have a body modeled under the shirt for the shirt to collide with, but even in that case, it's not always necessary. However, given that this is your first character, I would not recommend using ncloth.

11 November 2008, 09:54 PM
archanex: Definetelly a good point on using ncloth for the first character. I want to keep this as simple as I can.

Paul: Hey there, thanks for replying. I just realized I had my old domain under my signature, I fixed that already, and changed my avatar, it was there for too long. ;)
I must warn though, thatīs a very outdated portfolio, with my 3d stuff I use to do, stoped with all of that after starting an animation school, even stoped using 3dsmax. Been trying to get this character all done in maya.

I will cut out some of the body under the shirt that is intersecting with, good idea. I friend told me I could use the maya deformer wrap to pull the shirt geometry as I animate, just so it doenst intersect too much. I could also make some blendshapes for the bottom of the shirt, like for when I do jumps, so I can get a simple reaction on the shirt.

what you guys think about that?

Gonna run back to this monkey, just wanna animate the sucker already,
is there a " make an awesome rig" button in maya for me to use heheh ;)

11 November 2008, 10:11 PM
Gonna run back to this monkey, just wanna animate the sucker already,
is there a " make an awesome rig" button in maya for me to use heheh ;)

You can always script one. ;)

I would say the quickest and easiest way will be to cut out the geometry below the shirt. then what I would do is create some geometry to connect the shirt into the arm, that way you can paint some textures there to help the arm blend into the shirt better. See the picture below.

Just make sure that your shirt geometry flows well into the arm.

11 November 2008, 10:34 PM
hey Ed, thanks for that tip. Iīm doing that right now, deleing the parts that the shirts covers up. Should work.

Iīll come back to show more later. ;)


11 November 2008, 01:19 AM
hey guys. I finally back at this project.

I cut off the parts that were intersecting with the shirt, then attached the head to the body already, and unwraped everything.

My question is this, as Im about ready to bind the mesh and the rig.

Iīm thinking I could attach the head with the body and do the bind, but the unwrap on the head and the one in the body would overlap on themselves. I could keep them apart and re-scale everything to fit nitcely in place, BUT I would loose resolution in the head wouldnt I, since I would have to pack it smaller to fit in the same area as the whole body?

how should I apparoch this? merge them all together and do the binding, skin it and the later, detached the head to do blendshapes and attach it back? what about the unwrap on it?


11 November 2008, 07:09 AM
hey guys. Iīm back. I put the head together with the body and am skinning right now. So far itīs going well, i guess itīs all about getting the hand of it.

I have a question regarding why the head is not following the spine. I like to animate with FK Spine, so every time I move a controler, the part above it should come along right. Whatīs happening is that my head is not coming with it, just a few points. I can see that the spine parts are not parented to the head parts, if I parent them, the head deforms really bad.

hereīs a pic of what happens.

11 November 2008, 02:29 PM
you just need to either parent or parent constrain the head controller to the top spine controller and then it'll behave like fk

if you're seeing bad deforming when you parent the head to the spine, you might have a double transform in there somewhere. what does your outliner look like? are your controllers and joints in seperate hierarchies? if you have the controller and the joint in the same hierarchy you could get double transforms that way

11 November 2008, 06:57 PM
Hi Soul, thanks for replying.

The controlers and joints are in separate hierarquies.
Parent constraining the head controler do the top spine controler didnt work, remains the same.

Iīm using the maya plugin TSM2. Itīs an automatic riging tool. I already tweaked all the atributes, trying to find something that maybe connects the head with the spine as it should be, but nothing really works.

I made a video showing what happens, how the head deforms when parenting and I show the outliner.

Click here (

11 November 2008, 07:08 PM
select spine_torso_fk, shift ctrl+select head_rig, and go to parent constraint (options). make sure 'maintain offset' is turned on, and create a constraint. that might do it. i can't see what exactly you're doing when you parent it in because the video doesn't show what you select from the edit menu, but i would try that.

i'm not familiar with tsm2 so i can't really tell from the video if there is anything else going on.

also it looks like your jaw is weighted mostly to the upper spine joint, which is causing the weird deformation. if it were weighted 100% to the head, i would expect the whole head to just stay put.

11 November 2008, 08:15 PM
hey Soul, I tried what you said and it didnt work. The head joints stays where they are, they dont move with the spine when I rotate.

is it ok if I sent you my rig for you to take a look? you can private message me with your email if you youīre ok with it.

Iīll make sure to report back here with any findinds, so that these posts remains updated.

11 November 2008, 04:54 AM
hey guys, I fixed the head issue. I mean, I didnt really got to work, it was beyond my riging abilities( almost none lol)

What I did was to place the riging widgets back from the start, every part, but this time using their complete biped set. What I had done was adding each part of the biped one at a time, just so I could focus in one thing, but between parenting parts to the other limbs, something went wrong.

So now, after some boring time redoing it, itīs working as it should. Just a matter of skining again to make sure nothing is sticking out. Im pretty happy. If i bump into more stuff Iīll make sure to come back.

hereīs a pic of the head joint folloing the spine.

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