View Full Version : Input needed on how to approach creating these effects?

05 May 2008, 07:11 AM
I'm interested in creating two different effects and would like some input as to how anyone else would approach creating them.

Some basic info:
* Camera shots are all from "inside" of the fluid.
* There are extreme closeups for both effects.
* Everything in the scene is highly detailed.
* Calculation time is unlimited so there's no time limit.
* No restrictions on plugins that could be used. (i.e. Shave and a Haircut, etc...)

1) I would like to replicate hair movement in fluid.

2) I would like to create the effect of cloth in fluid. Now to throw a wrench in it, I am looking to have the cloth on a character that has this cloth on AND is moving in the fluid.

I appreciate any suggestions or methods that anyone has. Please let me know if there are any questions or anyone needs any other info.


05 May 2008, 04:53 PM
No one has any thoughts on this? Even discussing what wouldn't work would be helpful. (Yah...I know I just opened a can of worms with that.) But please any ideas or input would be great. I am curious to know how others would approach these two effects if given the task to do so.

05 May 2008, 01:12 PM
i would use realflow for the objects animation,for the hair u have the fibers in real flow,it can be a lot of help,and the cloth as soft bodies , but i dont think u need any Fluid to do this, i think u can make the cloth with n-cloth where the fluid part would be some kind of volume field with lots of Drag?/ but i think the animation can be done,the problem lies in rendering,and all the stuff that follows,u ll have to add emitters of small bubbles stuck on the cloth....and make underwater environment....Gnommon has a dvd on that, good luck in ur work man

05 May 2008, 12:53 AM
These effects can be achieved by playing with the solver settings on NCloth and Maya hair.

05 May 2008, 12:35 PM
create a plane face it towards your character and emit from it. create a field (maybe Air) now set the particles as the source of field. From here there are several settings in the field you will need to set to get the right simulation; max distance, apply per vertex and Magnitude.

From here its just a matter of tweaking; Emitter rate, speed; field magnitude, max distance; as well as cloth and hair settings to get the right reaction.

Sorry I dont have time to be more detailed, I hope this helps.

05 May 2008, 09:53 AM
see title :)

05 May 2008, 05:54 PM
Thanks for all of the feedback. It's all really good info. I've seen the Gnomon DVD for underwater environments and it was helpful for some general setups, but didn't offer much in terms of creating the effects that I need to do for the character. I do think that creating the small bubbles on the characters clothes, body, hair, etc... will be a challenge. I am thinking I could achieve this with goals, but obviously won't know until I get into it to see what works and what doesn't.

I've worked in Realflow, but not worked with the fibers. There's a suggestion to go with the fibers for the hair and another to use Maya hair. What about Shave and a Haircut? I've not used it yet, but have some tutorials I plan to go through. I know that on a thesis short I worked on in school that we had an incredible amount of difficulty with using Shave and being able to get self-shadowing to work in the render pipeline. (In fact, I don't think that solution has been resolved yet) Self shadowing will be important for this project. Any preference on using Maya hair over Realflow fibers? Has anyone had issues with self-shadowing and found a solution that works with Shave? I know this is also the wrong forum for this, but I have some training in Houdini with particles and dynamics. Would anyone reccomend using Houdini for any of these fx over Maya?

I appreciate all of the feedback. All info is welcomed!


05 May 2008, 12:56 PM
Shave is very powerful, there is a slider for self shadowing its pretty straight forward. (Be sure to set up your lights and disable default lighting in your render settings).

What tutorials do you have for Shave? I havnt found anything useful except for the Digital Tutors which I typically try to stay away from with exception to Shave, because i havnt found much of anything else.

05 May 2008, 11:21 AM
Both nCloth and Maya hair can use a fluid container as a field. You're gonna need loads of tweaking and loads of drag, but it's pretty easy to do. If you want your char to influence the fluid container, you can create some motion fields and contrain them to your chars (maybe 1 for each arm, leg and 1 for the body, deppending how your animation is).

With fluids, motion fields, nCloth and hair in the same simmulation you will have about 6526389 attributes to tweak to get the right look... but that's just like christmas eve for someone that loves dynamics... ;)

05 May 2008, 05:46 PM
I'm not even sure one really needs to use fluids for this effect. Just make the drag high on nCloth and Maya Hair and make the gravity values zero or low. Apply a turbulence field for some of the drifting motion. You could also perhaps have a drag field parented to the character with inheritVelocity set to 1 and a magnitude around 5. This will help drag stuff with the motion of the character.


05 May 2008, 05:51 PM
You could also perhaps have a drag field parented to the character with inheritVelocity set to 1 and a magnitude around 5. This will help drag stuff with the motion of the character.

...learning new stuff every day... Lovelly! ;)

06 June 2008, 04:24 AM
Thanks to everyone for all of the feedback. I am still working out my pre-production and trying to setup a production schedule. I am certain I will be back with more questions when I am in the thick of it.

Pyrokinesis asked: " What tutorials do you have for Shave?"

I just have the Digital Tutors ones. I've not found any other Shave tutorials out there. I keep checking the Gnomon site thinking they may create one at some point, but I haven't seen anything thus far.

06 June 2008, 05:15 AM
Apparently 3Delight has some interesting options for rendering Shave, the first license is free. I have installed it but got side tracked on a personal project for my Demo Reel.

From what i have heard it offers quite a bit for Shave and Particle rendering.

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