View Full Version : Rigging Woes

04 April 2008, 04:57 PM

I've been doing a crash course in using XSI Character Tools and am having a couple problems
setting up a biped from the biped guide.

Main problem is knees are bending forward, of course the model stretches her legs backwards a little in the modeled pose that I used to setup the guides. So I think the rig creation script misinterpreted the bending direction of the knees.

Just wondering is there's any easy fix?

Also her hands are posing nicely except for the closed hand position.
Any clues on where to go about fixing that?
I think I'll be fiddling with it for a long time. Any clues would be much appreciated.

04 April 2008, 06:33 PM
I've never used the character tool set, but I think there's a video from that uses it-- "get moving"

Also, in the long run, you'll be better off learning to rig on your own-- 3d quakers video is really good to learn from.


04 April 2008, 06:39 PM

I'm not currently sitting in front of xsi but it sounds like the rotation plane for the legs needs flipping 180 degree. Just select the first bone in the chain and press enter. Then under the resolution tab type 180 into the roll slider value.

As for the hand. i'm asuming that you are talking about the synoptic preset for the closed hand? If so then all you need do is find the animation clip that the synoptic is applying when you press the button. In the scene explorer expand the bibed model, then expand the mixer folder, then the sources folder. There should be all your preset clips in there. What you need to do is replace the offending clip with a new one that you are happy with. So pose the hand by rotating the bones then go Store>Transformations_current values and name the clip the same as the original ( you'll have to rename the original first) Then when you hit the synoptic button it will load your new clip. Synoptics rule! They are a character TD's dream! If you are new to xsi you'll love them! Anyway hope you have fun animating.

04 April 2008, 10:42 PM
If you have in your pose an almost near 0 degree bending in knees sometimes XSI assumes what "he" wants. Try to bend a bit more.

04 April 2008, 11:22 PM
@ Mechis

Thanks a lot. I've had a look. And there's Digital Tutors maybe. And the one I'm sticking to for now the official XSI tutorials. I must admit Max tuts were more exciting than Doc Bunsen but they seem to cover a lot of aspects for now.

@ matt8

I really appreciate it. Can't believe how nice this forum is. And it's people like you :D
Never mind tech support I hope to be posting here for a long time.
Can't wait to try everything out :D

Loving XSI btw not really animating at this stage just rigging for the sake of learning and also to create a pose for a static image. So in the end it really doesn't have to be perfect. Love the character tools. The biped and the synoptics are just plain awesomeness :buttrock:

@ Bullit

Yup that's what endep up working last time thanks.
I think I'll be trying matt8's approach next time, maybe you can also?
Bit of a pain waiting for yet another rig to get created again after changing the guide.

Thanks again. Loving this software.

04 April 2008, 04:21 AM
@ matt8

Hi again.

Your tips all worked except for knee rotation.
If I type an angle for the root bone under resolution after generating the rig
it deforms the whole leg.

I wonder if there's a way of specifying the direction the knee should bend
before generating the rig?
I'm really frustrated at generating rig after rig and getting knees bending in all directions
but the expected one.

PS -- Funny enough I kept the first test rig I did for the model. Got it right first time.
Can't do it again lol

04 April 2008, 02:39 PM
@ matt8

I'm really frustrated at generating rig after rig and getting knees bending in all directions
but the expected one.

The leg will bend in the direction that it favors...i.e., don't rig with a perfectly straight joint. make sure it is slightly bent in the direction you wish it work.

04 April 2008, 03:55 PM
Hi adrencg.

Thanks. Yeh that's cool but not so cool if you use a real world photo as modeling reference :(
See some people are flexible and their legs bend slightly backward. On top of that they might stand straight without a hint that their legs bend forward.

So that's where the angles will drive you to pull your own hair.
All of a sudden thigh and lower leg are almost straight on the model, angles are almost 0 whichever way you look at it (front back left right) and you get the funniest rigs from the guide. And you know I really don't want to change the modeling :(

It's either guides don't match and stick out everywhere and then it's a leg or..
I've had forward left and right bending knees. Very frustrating. So I managed to get ONE nice rig done with my model. The first one lol

Then I spent a few hours and couldn't do it again..
Glad adjustments weren't bad on that first go, but still I can't be more of a perfectionist now :p

04 April 2008, 04:00 PM

Here's a screenie.
Definfitely jinxed legs. Bad juju.
You'll lose hair :p

PS--That ankle rotation box got right back where it started.

04 April 2008, 07:05 PM
Don't be afraid to have the bones even stick out of the mesh a bit. While in real life it's painful, in 3D it's nothing some enveloping can't fix. The more you "tell" XSI which way it bends the better result you'll get.

04 April 2008, 07:49 PM
Hey spin99,

sorry about the late reply, I know how frustrating it can be, but I've been swamped. Ok interms of specifying the direction that a bone will bend just draw the chain with a slight bend in it. But if you do find your self in a position where you've already enveloped the mesh to a broken bone. Just reset actor on the rig. Animate>Deform>Envelope>reset actor. That will take your character back to the bind pose. Then mute the envelope opperator. Then make all the corrections you need on the bones. Then before you re-enable the envelope, select all the deformers (the bones)that you changed.( I find it best to just select all the deformers from the envelope.) Then with the bones selected go Animate>Deform>Envelope>Set reference Poses. ( I don't know why but I often find that I need to click this a few times before it works.) Then unmute the envelope and it should all be good.

Hope this helps

04 April 2008, 09:02 PM
Thanks matt8 I'll be going through your post for sure.
Best place for tips this?
Screenshot below to illustrate my last rig experiment.
I'm guessing it's going to work :buttrock:

04 April 2008, 02:28 AM
You know that wasn't my last rig experiment but rather my first one (oops) :lightbulb
It almost worked specially the tail moved so nicely but overall it was not that helpful.
So I've been trying to create my first rig pls see image below.

If I try set the envelope for the dolphin model and use a group with ALL the controls what happens is only the cubes in the rig seem to deform the mesh (IK?)
Picking and rotating individual bones (FK?) doesn't seem to do anything :(

The way it's set up is that each cube parents 2 separate "spine" bones (IK)
Then I created the fin bones (x3) as 3 separate chains.
They're not parented by anything.

I've also tried tagging the points for each fin bone and reassigning them locally to the respective fin bone. This creates nice envelopes but somehow the bones fail to deform them or do anything.

Sorry definitely a newb here but just wanted to create a really basic rig to do some posing and really battling. It looks that amazingly IK works and FK doesn't want to lol

I wonder if someone can give me some advice on this one?

Is it that far fetched creating a custom rig? :argh:

PS-- adrencg your girl is sooo pretty :)
I love the pout in the avatar really nice work.

04 April 2008, 03:32 AM

Just sorted it looks like applying the envelope to the bones enabled FK and IK.
Really nice.

04 April 2008, 06:37 PM
Hi there again.

I wonder if anyone get help me out here.
i've basically taken a base model and posed it with a rig.
Then I copied it and went on to work on the base.

Now I'm trying to transfer the pose from the old base to the new detailed model.
Gator won't let me pick it and complains that the target won't match filter.
Just wondering do I have to rig the new model and then use Gator for it to work?

Or am I just missing something here?

05 May 2008, 07:43 PM
Ok I take my last post back :D

Yes my dolphin rig is useless, and I'm not using it, k.
I think I'm using bones where I should be using that wire thing,
and I have no idea how to set that up.

But GATOR is plain awesomeness, that's it!
So my low poly rigged model is now transferring poses to the higher poly,
fully equipped, unrigged, finished model.

Yes there's work afterwards but I'm totally amazed anyway.
It's a huge time saver. This Essentials thing rocks, period.
Only pity is that it's a little crash prone, but hey.
*Phewwwww* :buttrock:

05 May 2008, 11:04 PM
yey if you wanna transfer POSE between rigs, what you need is save actions and transfer it.

In lots of cases you can use match transforms too (transform panel) or just setup pose constraints to your control bones...

but don't go crazy, try to keep it simple... XSI can become too big for you if you don't get on the basics first.

But gator is indeed awesome lol I remember how I laugh when I had to use it for the first time and I didn't expect it to work... but it always work lol.

Funny it's ~3 year old technology now :)

05 May 2008, 01:31 PM
Yes thanks it's a pretty steep learning curve.
What I did was rig the low poly model and adjusted envelopes.
Then I went on to finish a higher poly model.

After that I used GATOR to transfer the envelopes from low -> high poly.
Then I used the stored pose and applied it to the biped.
Since both meshes now shared envelopes I got the high-res model posed.

So old tech or not it worked like a charm.
I suppose a better way of doing it would be using the high poly model only
as displacement on the other mesh. But this way I got more control.

I really like the work on your web site tc.

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