View Full Version : Feng's Tank - CG Talk "noob" here.
04-19-2002, 01:06 AM
I this created variation from an amored vehicle design (concept sketch) by Feng Zhu. http://www.artbyfeng.com. I felt it was too narrow in width and lacked enough weaponry, so I widened it and added a Vulcan cannon to the roof, plus a ton more detail.
3DS MAX using lots of primitives and extruded splines. I also did a fair amount of vertex editing to fine tune proportions and scale. I assigned very simple materials with some noise mapping and slight bump mapping to suggest camouflage and surface imperfections.
I set up a simple lighing scheme and rendered a fully shaded version using a global illumination renderer. I also rendered separate shadow and matte passes for compositing later. Finally, using the Illustrate 5.1 plug-in for MAX ( http://www.davidgould.com/Illustrate/Ill ustrateForMax/Illustrate51.htm), I rendered an outline version with various lineweights for certain effects.
Then I brought all the images into Photoshop for compositing. I created a background layer and using one of the shadow pass renders added the ground plane shadows. On top of that, I brought in the fully shaded render and masked it using the alpha matte I had created. Over that, I overlayed the line art render, which "knocked back" the shading to a pleasant greyed out style. Yet another layer was added that was just the lines from the line art render, isolated using another alpha matte. This layer was set to Multiply, and adjusted to about 25% opacity.
I selectively went in and darkend selected areas for more contrast and definition, and fixed a few line art render glitches. To finish, I added some "construction lines" to accentuate the sketch feel and added some surface damage on another layer using an bevelled layer style. This was done in 2D to further capture the same conceptual sketch look as the inspiration.
04-19-2002, 01:09 AM
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
thats just beatiful , its my new desktop right now.
04-19-2002, 01:16 AM
Feng already had the still nailed. let's see it go!
Make it go!! :)
04-19-2002, 01:21 AM
very, very nice
Wonderfully executed compositing to create that end effect (and modeling, of course ;)) It certainly enhanced Feng's tank without taking away from the feel of it at all. -not easy, im sure!
my only crit would be to make the surface imperfections a bit more subtle. They just look a bit too 'cg' compared to the nice 'illustration look' you accomplished.
but other than that :thumbsup:
04-19-2002, 01:53 AM
04-19-2002, 04:31 AM
Great work :)
I thought that was an illustration before i read your post. :eek:
04-19-2002, 04:42 AM
That certainly is impressive. Really good use of compositing to get the illustrated look. I'm impressed.
Show us more work :)
*edit: oh yeah, an animation would be really cool. 5 stars if you do it in the same illustration style as the still ;)
04-19-2002, 04:42 AM
my gawd this is a piece of work :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :applause: :applause:
04-19-2002, 07:40 AM
Holy crap, look at that... :eek: :eek: :eek:
Amazing stuff. :thumbsup:
04-19-2002, 07:43 AM
04-19-2002, 08:04 AM
I have been a fan of your skins for quite a while now :) Had no idea you were doing this kinda stuff!!:D Can't wait to see what you do next!!! And thanks for the details on how you were able to pull this off :)
04-19-2002, 08:13 AM
very nicely done indeed, great design!
cery nice.. let's see it go!
04-19-2002, 09:28 AM
YeowzZa! That is nice.
The details, design and rendering are just...awesome.
nice touch with the construction lines.
04-19-2002, 09:43 AM
Oh, god I like it:bounce: :bounce:
04-19-2002, 09:45 AM
Oh, sorry, is like, no lick. haha:annoyed:
04-19-2002, 10:12 AM
Really nice job! I like the changes you made to the original, too. I agree with one of the previous posters on one point though. The soft dents in the armour don't seem to go with the rest of the hard lines that well, but maybe that's just me.
That's great ! I love it too. I love the original concept too, more human-like drawing ;)
Did you show this to Feng-Zhu ?
Maybe you could post the original image. OH ok i do it now. Those marker drawings are just incredible...
Original Feng's image :
I was in love w/ the sketch, you did at least as good...
:applause: :applause: :applause:
04-19-2002, 02:43 PM
:eek: :eek: holy s**t!:eek: :eek:
04-19-2002, 06:36 PM
I wrote Feng and provided him links to the image. No reply yet, but one imagines he gets tons of email.
Thanks for all the nice comments - I hope to get something together for this month's challenge... we'll see.
04-19-2002, 07:08 PM
wow really pretty
04-19-2002, 08:00 PM
dude i have been using your skins for more years than i can count, you single handedly have turned me into a closet skinner.
feng gave me permission about 8 months ago to do this tank but i have not had the time to get around to it
he was cool as long as you gave props to artist.
very very fine rendition of his tank
i dont know what else to say
very nice job
04-19-2002, 09:35 PM
dude you rock,, I started my version of this model a while back,, but never finished it,,, I love that door,, don't you,, anyhoo you did way better than any version that Ive seen,, and feng made a great drawing too give all of use something to model from,, and its a very simple but stylistic shape,,,
Glad too see you put much work into bringing into new light.
I just love those clean lines!
04-20-2002, 02:35 AM
splendid...how can i say more...i'am a fan...it's perfect...i'am in love
:love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love: :love:
04-20-2002, 02:51 AM
oh my god ,it is best in my eye
04-20-2002, 06:53 AM
i want an anim with it! :D please....?
04-21-2002, 12:02 AM
I saw your enviroment drawings on your website totally out of this world: :applause: :applause:
04-22-2002, 08:24 AM
got my desktop :)
04-22-2002, 09:18 PM
HOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLY COW crap!!!!
Tell me something! how did u do the last one? or is that Feng's 2D????
Oh and one more thing how did u make those COOL INKLINES in 3D???????
04-23-2002, 12:25 AM
WhOwW! Amazing work...
ThaT iS soOo CooL... How much time did it take you to do it?
04-23-2002, 12:31 AM
Originally posted by Raul-Reznek
Oh and one more thing how did u make those COOL INKLINES in 3D???????
He says in the post :)
04-25-2002, 11:17 AM
look here's stuff!
I think he is cool man and that super man hehe!
Why any maker of theˇ¶star warˇ·isn't invites him to charge of the 2D part in making detail!!!!! they had miss best maker!
04-25-2002, 12:25 PM
Cool stuff.. When are you texturing it? Waiting to see it. Keep it up and all the best.
04-25-2002, 01:56 PM
A COOL KILLING MACHINE!!!!!!!:p :p :p :p :shame: :applause: :wip:
04-25-2002, 01:59 PM
I like you picture feng, very nice. Please show us some more.
04-25-2002, 02:16 PM
FENG, YOU ARE AN ELITE GOD!!!!
and to the artist who did the 3d model of fengs tank,
YOU ARE THE FREAKING SH%T!!!!!
04-25-2002, 03:40 PM
I think it's NOT right to try to improve Feng's work. His designs and drawings are HIS vision and are perfect, since those designs are made by him and are the way he wanted them to be. If you can't find an original concept, DON'T copy one, and most of all, DON'T POST it. If you just wanted to try something and wanted to use his design, I can understand, but do NOT try to take credit for it. You felt it was too narrow and lacked enough weaponry, well tastes differ, since Feng designed it the way he wanted it.
To all the posters. It's not because it has become a topic in the News section, that you have to follow blindly, what the hell are we posting for then...
Very GooD!!! I saw your design on your site.... Always fantastic!
:applause: :applause: :applause:
04-25-2002, 05:00 PM
Feng wrote me to say he loved the rework - He also gives express permission to model his work on his site in his FAQ.
I did not try to take credit for the design. The thread is entitled "Feng's Tank" and credits are given in the initial description. Besides, Feng Zhu is widely known, to assume that'd I'd even attempt to take credit for his work, is ridiculous.
Lastly, who are you to demand what I post and do not post here? There's plenty of work here that is not "original". If I had modeled an Ferrari for example, would you cry "foul" since I had not designed it?
04-25-2002, 06:05 PM
derbyqsalano:please we had these discussions to much already, and they all lead to nothing but flames.... Dangeruss CLEARLY states where his source of inspiration came from and he even stated he had express written consent from Feng himself... so please drop your accusations here and do not discuss this any further...
04-25-2002, 06:14 PM
Why do you fear discussion so much? Isn't that what this channel is? I was very let down with CGTalk when you closed down the skulls and dirt thread.
04-25-2002, 06:31 PM
And Jaydog why do you like controversy so much?
04-25-2002, 07:20 PM
very nice job. i really like the illustration style. :thumbsup:
that's your vision. however, the two persons concerned (Feng and Dangeruss) agree on this project. personally, i can think it's wrong of you to spit on Dangeruss' work like that. but it's harder to say why. unfounded accusation which are based on nothing but what you think but can't argue is not valuable. the only arguments you have are that it is not right to take his work even though Feng agreed on that and he specified it was Feng's work, not his. if you can't defend what you advance, don't say it.
04-25-2002, 07:58 PM
BADASS piece of work. I like Feng Work and Dangeruss did a great re-work, which isn't easy to do.
04-25-2002, 08:03 PM
looks like somebody decided AriTibbs' and JayDog's views were a trend to continue.
derbyqsalano: whereas they had some valid points (whether they were right or wrong given their original context), you haven't a leg to stand on in this context.
dangeruss: quite nice. are you planning on texturing it?
04-25-2002, 08:51 PM
hey guys, get over it already!
if someone decides to do his own interpretation of somebody else´s work, that´s fine with me. i just can´t see a problem here, since the artist that did the pic in the first place has no objections at all and even likes it!
04-25-2002, 09:07 PM
The reason my reply was this negative was because I've been a fan of Feng's work since the very first days and I concider him one of the best designers on the community. I hardly (read never) say something without having good reasons, but I must say the 3D version is well done, good work and as one said before: ANIMATE IT, should be a good reason to model a design by the great Feng.
Sorry for my anger, keep up the good work.
04-25-2002, 10:17 PM
I like controversy because it leads to intelligent discussions. What is the point of this damn website if you can't stir up some kind of thought or emotion once in a while? *sigh*
Also, because you closed down the other thread (left unconcluded), this conversation has now slowly started to spread to other threads. You can't expect to have hundreds of people posting and not expect disagrements or arguements. COME ON!
04-25-2002, 10:22 PM
Okay...what this artist did is fine. I dont' have a problem with him copying another artists work (or for you euphanism lovers out there, "interperreted"). Its a good copy. I won't critique it though because it isn't anything genuinly artistic, original, or that creative.
I think derbyqsalano's anger wasn't really justified, but that's a moot point now. I don't think the copier (or "interrpereter") tried to beguile anyone about the nature of this work, but I still wouldn't consider it a portfolio peice by any means. Merely a technical exploration.
And to Lil' Dragon, I think you deserve a quick critique. As a forum moderator you're doing a pretty poor job. You seem to close down forums that don't appeal to YOUR taste. That seems a bit totalitarianistic don't you think? As long there aren't any racial epithets or anything of that extreeme nature, why close the forum down? If people want to discuss, then that's their perogative. Closing down a thread because you yourself don't agree with what's going on is pointless and doesn't appeal to the true nature of a forum.
Now if you'll research a forum, you'll realize it is derived from the Ancient Roman Republic. A forum was a place for people to gather and exchange ideas, talk, stories, etc. By over-moderating this gallery forum, you are in essence censoring anyone who's opinion differs from yours.
I think in the future you should take a more distant approach to moderating the threads and close them down if something extreme happens, not something normal like an exchange between people...even if there are "you're stupid" comments involved from time to time.
EDIT :: because this piece is a copy of another artist's work, I don't believe it should be posted on the front page of cgchannel.
04-25-2002, 10:42 PM
I refuse to let another thread be ground into the dirt by you Jaydog and Artibbs, if you wish to discuss anything further, please send me a pm... this issue is over, let's just enjoy a great piece by Dangeruss
04-25-2002, 10:43 PM
I too would like to see this tank animated. I mean it's a neat copy and all, but what is the point of a concept sketch? It's certainly not so the 3d artist can copy it in B&W for a mimic still shot!
It's a damn fine study though, but I still want to see it textured and animated, with guns ablaze!
I think that is what derbyqsalano is pointing out. This makes a fine study. Like a tutorial project, but it's not a finished original, mearly a copy of the concept sketch. Which, while looking absolutely fantastic, is still only a copy. Feng Zhu is a master, we learn from copying masters, we grow by inflicting personal style on the works!
As to the moderation, AriTibbs is 100% correct. You can't sensor critiques or intelligent discussion. Delete trolls and anything completely off topic, but the relevent discussion of art is what one would think CGtalk is about. It's not CGtalk(butduntalkaboutwhat lildragondisagreeswith)
I didn't agree with what Ari was saying in the other thread, but I still think it's a shame that the discussion wasn't allowed to run it's course.
04-25-2002, 10:54 PM
I won't get into this, the last thread was closed because it got to the point it was getting out of hand... I don't go around closing threads because I can, if it's not constructive (there's a difference) I warn you about it a few times and if you don't oblige it will be closed simple... now anything further you want to discuss with my name in the sentence, send me a pm..
04-25-2002, 10:56 PM
Jaydog and Aritibbs have been locked out of this thread.... Nice job lildragon.... By censoring this thread you have proven all that Jaydog and Aritibbs were saying. Its unfair to lock people out of a thread because you disagree with their opinion. You don't deserve the power you have on this thread. They have done nothing but state there opinion. I would like to know who is the director of CG Talk as to voice my opinion to him.
I also want everyone to know what is going on here. You say that your moderating, but your just censoring what you don't like. This is probably the most excitement this forum has seen in quite some time now. SORRY, if sometimes people have difference of opinion. Who are you to judge whats to censor and whats not. In none of their comments have either of them stooped down to the levels of some others who lobbed insults ie "get laid once in a while, get a damn life."
To place a gag on 2 users who disagree with you is wrong.
04-25-2002, 10:59 PM
I see what youre tying to do but i think the construction lines are a little distracting towards the coolness of the pic.
04-25-2002, 11:00 PM
Actually Ambient, Lildragon had nothing to do with it. I'm the one that blocked them out.
If you are not happy and want to rant, why don't you go somewhere else, like CG Chat or 3D ark....
The work featured here is not a copy of someone else's work. It's a 3D render based on a 2D image. Read the quote carefully.
Here is the original artwork from Feng Zhu and compare: http://www.artbyfeng.com/vehi_10.htm
04-25-2002, 11:11 PM
We welcome any constructive discussion in this forums , but we want cgTalk to retain the professionalism that makes it attractive in the first place.
The moderators said it before , i'll say it again , this is not the place to start a flame war. If you are frustrated at something this is not the place to vent your anger by starting an argument.
If you are unhappy about how things work here feel free to browse the net for other forums , there are lots of unmoderated forums out there where you can play your own game.
We have the best community here at CGTalk IMHO , where people gladly help each other , and where people network with friends and future employers. And those people are here because this forum maintains a degree of maturity. This is not Jerry Springer online.
04-26-2002, 02:40 AM
wow, very impressive. Your website is mighty pretty too!
04-26-2002, 03:24 AM
very, very, VERY...
VERY, VERY, VERY, VERY COOOOOOOL!!!!!!!
Yeah, I like it :)
04-26-2002, 10:44 AM
its Tromendus ..... keep it up man !!!!!!!!!!!1
the tank is very very very very very very very very very very very very very very very :wavey: very very very very very very very very very very Niiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiice !!!!
i like it very much .
:bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce: :bounce:
oh!God!amazing,I love that the gray and white contrast
04-26-2002, 05:16 PM
The work featured here is not a copy of someone else's work. It's a 3D render based on a 2D image. Read the quote carefully.
For the purposes of copyright law derived work is the same as copying.
For example if someone were to take Dangeruss' 3d model and change it by adding tank treads, a radar tower, and replace the gatlin with a rocket launcher and credits his inspiration to Dangeruss....this is not enough....because its still derived from Fengs work (whether or not that person knew it). He is still required to credit Feng.
Just thought I'd add this bit of technicality since a lot of people don't understand what copying means from the perspective of copyright law.
Feng couldn't care less as long as he is credited and his concept is done justice and portrayed in a positive manner. He's getting so much exposure for this.
Dangeruss, this is an excellent model and does Feng's concept justice. Going with the illustrate look was an excellent choice.
04-26-2002, 10:44 PM
fabulous russ.. and i'm overjoyed to see you're still cranking out the hot stuff :) hmm.. off to see what's up at the dri website..
04-27-2002, 02:07 AM
It's really really well done, but... I have to ask: what's the point?
What's the point in making look exactly like the 2D concept art? I can't figure that....
except of course if it's an exercise...:suprised:
04-27-2002, 02:32 AM
Maybe some history would help. I had earlier created a fully shaded version and posted in in another digital art forum, with references to the sketch. Most respondants indicated they preferred the feel of the original sketch over the render. I agreed, and set about to mimic the sketch's style, while adding some design elements of my own.
I don't think it looks "exactly" like the sketch. It has a similar look, which was my desired result. Actually, my desired result was to enjoy a few hours at my PC creating something fun. I thought I'd share it here. Period. I didn't think I needed a point or justification for the work.
The point, if you insist, was to replicate a "look". That look is often photorealism, but not this time. It's odd that a lot of people need to know the point, of something. Is it not permissible to create something for the pure enjoyment of it? Must every piece break new ground, or prove something to both the creator and the viewer?
The amount of off topic questioning of my motives or ethics prompts me to weigh the value of posting any more of my pointless art here. :annoyed:
04-27-2002, 03:42 AM
I'm sorry for the others,,, i take all of the blame, just kidding, I loved your piece as I am sure many others have. Some people just need to think about what they say before the say it.
your post was perfect,, gave out pleny of info and a Truely awesome modeling and rendering job..
I to just do it all for the fun of it. as most of us do.
I'll thank you for your post,, I really enjoyed seeing to what level you taken a great concept that feng wiped out, and take it to a level I had not even thought of before.
Please keep your stuff coming, this place is usually much better.
The more people the better this place gets, that means I get too view more cool 3d stuff.
seeing this image made me remember back to the days of mechanical drafting classes i took at a tech school. I loved making Iso-drawings that looked to this kind of detail and cleaness.
04-27-2002, 09:25 AM
The amount of off topic questioning of my motives or ethics prompts me to weigh the value of posting any more of my pointless art here
Know what you mean :( With so many additional posters/newbies etc. I think it's time the moderation got a little more . . . well . . moderating, that's what they are there for. No offense to the moderators, you guys are great, but a bit tougher wouldn't hurt! Some kind of rules to avoid 20-30 WOWOWOWOWOW etc. would be great and prevent wading through the really good posts trying to find some information other than how great the work is or how crappy the poster is ;)
So much of the arguments seem like a 2 sided argument for PM, not the general public! Remember all you "oh we're just carrying on our nice conversation let us do it?:p" this is a place for Graphics discussion. Notice it is listed under critiques!
Maybe something like at least 1 crit is required. IM-ing should be used a lot more IMHO. Warning about maybe wordiness, rudeness, or simply lack of critical feedback! Also maybe a "postive post" (like a line or so) could be made so such comments could be minimized in the thread and/or skipped when browsing.
Repeat infractions's will be deleted, as will useless things that take up a huge amount of space (no not me, I take up very little space :))
I know a PM is awaiting me about wordiness :)
04-28-2002, 04:53 PM
04-28-2002, 11:32 PM
Hey Dangeruss, great work, please don't reconsider posting your work here. I for one wouldn't have discovered Fengs artwork if I had not seen your version of his tank. Thanks and great stuff man.
04-29-2002, 06:11 AM
By the way Dangeruss, I just realized your the same guy who did that Four-0-Four - Wallpaper image. Ive been using it as my desktop for weeks. Its perfect. Funny though, i couldnt find it listed on your web site, only at Deviant.com
04-29-2002, 06:41 AM
Reading this thread reminds me of some of the discussions with my students. I am a college level Computer Animation instructor. The focus of our school is to train students for jobs in the Computer Gaming, PostProduction and Movie industry. When working in these fields, the individual artist is one of a team of artists. It is rare that one artist plays all of the rolls from conceptual art, modeling, environments, texturing, compositing and character animating. Individuals who are very skilled at a specific job usually fill these positions. Thus elevating the quality of the final output as a whole. Most young artist want to do everything. Unfortunately this leads to very mediocre art and demotapes because of the enormous effort involved in creating an extremely complex animation. I encourage my modelers to come up with their own concepts for their models but in the end the most important thing is that they create an extremely detailed model that is textured well. They should strive to create something that is new, unique and unusual. When working in the industry, modelers usually are modeling from preproduction art created by a conceptual artist. Very seldom is it their own design that they are modeling. While it is great to be able to come up with your own designs, and it is a plus, the main thing that employers are looking for in a modeler is your modeling ability, your focus to detail and your ability to texture. Working from other artists drawings is not only the norm in the industry it is a requirement. The ability to interpret a 2 dimensional drawing into a 3 dimensional model is a hard endeavor and one that is necessary. Embellishing the model is normal in any interpretation. I encourage a student to take ownership and put forth alternatives to the finished product. You want to expand the flow of ideas, not narrow them. The idea that one would not put in their portfolio a model that they created based on another artist drawing is not only foolish but most likely a view from somebody that doesn?t work in the industry. At our school we have a class where the students work together in a mock company on a professional project. The modelers build from conceptual art that is provided to them and the animators animate models that are built by the modelers. Everybody has a professional roll and they work as a team toward a common goal.
I appreciate the professional way this forum is run. In the past when I have written in other forums the views put forth by professionals in the industry, I have been blasted by people like AriTibbs' and JayDog's They spew vengeance on those they don?t agree with. This post is my interpretation of comments that were made by professionals in the field that I have interviewed over the last 20 years focusing on what they want in a young artist. We?ll see what happens this time.
04-29-2002, 10:25 AM
Would love to see it animated!! (keep it with the lines and stuff too)
04-29-2002, 09:52 PM
Well said, polygrinder. While jaydog and company make interesting points, I had been trying to find the words to post my opinion on this matter, which is similar to yours. Dangeruss' piece is a show of skill and technical prowress. I however, couldn't think of the right way to put what I felt. I guess that's why you're the teacher and I'm still the student, eh? Thanks!
05-17-2002, 10:39 AM
05-26-2002, 03:24 AM
I'll stay out of the somewhat petty debate over your moral ethics or the lack thereof.
Personally, I love what you've done. Feng love's what you've done. You love what you've done and in the end, that's all that matters. Now go make something new and post it so we can all marvel at your work again.
05-26-2002, 10:49 PM
very cool! I thought it was an illustration to!
05-28-2002, 03:43 AM
Nice model!! :thumbsup:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
The work of feng its amazing!!
01-13-2006, 05:00 AM
This thread has been automatically closed as it remained inactive for 12 months. If you wish to continue the discussion, please create a new thread in the appropriate forum.