View Full Version : DWIII - 3D - dstammel - Edgar Fox

02 February 2008, 11:10 PM
NEWEST IMAGE: Scroll through to see progress.

Time to tweak the maps. I've got some fixing of the spec maps and what not. But i'm getting close!

02 February 2008, 04:47 AM
I'm thinking about making an stalker.
He's going to be a sniper. He'll have a steam powered sniper rifle.
The rifle will be powered by the fire/lava relic to create steam.

I know the rules say no steam engines, but this won't be an engine, just a steam generator to propel his musket ammo.

concepts coming soon.

edit: no go for's air/lightning relic now

02 February 2008, 09:17 PM
looks like fred shot down my steam rifle by saying no steam equipment.

Looks like my sniper will now have a wind magic relic powered air rifle.

I'll be starting the concept tonight.

02 February 2008, 12:09 AM
lets see those concepts! good luck, I will be fighting for GA this year, expect no mercy CGS!!!

02 February 2008, 09:19 AM
Ok so here's a little sketch for my character

He's a Human Stalker assassin named Edgar Fox who uses the power of a wind crystal to aid in his assassinations. He's from a cold climate so he's dressed warm. Sweater, winter hat, and lots of layers. Good thing he's got fingerless gloves with removable mittens!
He has a simple air musket. It only has one moving part. There is a level to allow air either through the barrel or out a bleeder valve. Depending on how well he can control his air magic he can also affect the bullets travel using the relic. This allows him to assassinate targets from great distances

I might flesh out the concept some more with another drawing or i might just dive right in and start some modeling. You'll know soon enough.

I may also give him a pet. He might get a hawk. He could use the hawk to judge distance to a target. If he knows how fast his hawk flies he can time the hawks trip to the target distance and back and know how to set him sights on his air musket.
just an idea.

let me know what you think.

02 February 2008, 03:20 AM
Keep working out the concept, its much easier to do your faliures there, make sure your lock everything down, colors, nick nacks. so far so good, I like it this much (outstreches arms as far as can.) I would loose the antenna on the gun, and maybe give his special tank thing those weather tracking devices, mainly those little half-sphere spinners you see to monitor wind, things that tell you he's Wind driven, I would play up that angle. maybe give the gun a tripod and put it somewhere, maybe have him loose an eye and make it look ghostly. maybe some stubble a real rough neck. on the one eye thing, maybe more Assymetry, one sleeve rolled up, the other not. maybe a cigarette. crap I cant spell.

02 February 2008, 05:22 AM
all good ideas.
i'm still fleshing him out.
more to come.

02 February 2008, 06:53 AM
very cartoony :) might want to warp that grass a bit so it doesn't just look like you stamped it in there from photoshop (for the final I mean) I like the idea so far, good luck!

02 February 2008, 08:06 AM
ok, concept update.
i decided to go for some more asymetry like zeke3d suggested.
missing a sleave now which is actually practical. that arm will have to raise up high when he is aiming the gun. Without the bulky sleave his arm is more mobile now. Also now he only has one elbow pad. when he's lying prone he'll be supporting the gun with his left arm, so therefore he needs an armpad on that side.
I also gave him a messenger bag which is actually hung up under his coat so now one side of his coat tucks back behind the bag.

As for LiannaS's comment. I am going for a more cartoony look. His proportions aren't accurate. I've enlarged the hand and the feet while maintaining a smaller head. I want the character to look bulky and full of layers.

Next step will be roughing out a low polygon so i can play with sizes of accessories and see how his silhouette is shapping up.

02 February 2008, 02:49 AM
Ok more changes. Some guys at my studio had some nice critiques.
Got some more Asymatrey in there and i'm running the air pipe down his arm.
Only has one knee pad for when he kneels and shoots and one on his elbow for when he's prone and shoots.
Enlarged the pack as well.
Low poly is next for blocking

02 February 2008, 08:42 AM
I'm liking the changes. Maybe a few more fine details... like bullets on his backpack straps... utility or combat knife.. you know fun stuff. I'm liking what I see.

02 February 2008, 07:11 PM
yes lets see that musket pellet pouch, and make it extra pouchy. bullets wouldnt make sense, but the knife is a good idea. Overall great changes, much nicer. I would look at giving him difrente shoes, they look so nice, like he's gonna go out dancing or on a date, look at to look at inspiration for maybe other types of shoes, im not saying go military, maybe and ug boot or native american flavored look. also is this guy russian, native american, or plain ol' american inspired, if so maybe play that up, and also play up more magic.

02 February 2008, 07:48 PM
thanks again.
I'll be adding a knife i believe tonight and most likley musket pellet pouch on his belt.
Yeah, still working out a design for the boots
He's american inspired. Boots will most likley be inspired by WW1ish military boots
He's young, I haven't fully written his story up yet but when i do i'll add it here as well.
He's a new recruit that was drafted because of his sensitivity and aptitude to magic. His test scores were high so he was recruited for the elite ranger sniper division.
He's only about 19 years old. So he'll have a younger face. Hopefully i'll show something for a face at some point.

I roughed out some lowpoly stuff last night. I didn't take a screen shot so i'll work on that more tonight and hopefully post something.

Thanks again.

Edit: I'm thinking he's more like 25. He was 10 when he was forced into training and had 15 years of extensive military training.

02 February 2008, 07:35 AM

02 February 2008, 10:04 AM
Hunter supreme! :D I like it. Took some getting used to at first since everyone else is going for "MY CHAR CAN EAT THE UNIVERSE!"-kinda stuff, but the more I look at him, the more I like him. Looking forward to seeing your mesh. :)

02 February 2008, 08:33 PM
ohhh not the paper with the burnt edges and blood stains! so cliche, find something better to overlay your drawing on top of, more in keeping with the idea of your guy.

02 February 2008, 08:41 PM
aw, zeke is anti burnt edges.
If i come across something i like better i'll update it.

02 February 2008, 08:59 PM
here you go zeke.
distracts less from the drawing.
but originally that was the plan.....distract from the drawing!
My low poly is coming along, but not ready to show yet.

02 February 2008, 11:02 PM
I like the amount of strappy things, lots of fun detail. His rifle is very different then any other artifact weapons i've seen.

Super cool!

02 February 2008, 04:11 PM
I started cracking up laughing when I read "originally that was the plan.....distract from the drawing!" Looking much better, I was thinking on the lines of just plain paper, or maybe a map that snippers would use, something like that, cause if you want to throw in distractions, at least throw some in that enhance the look and feel. ;)

02 February 2008, 04:13 PM
What I find even more alarming is how many people seem to be using the crackeld, aging paper, with the ruff edges to show off their designs, whatever happend to creativity?

02 February 2008, 04:45 PM
Thanks again

02 February 2008, 06:58 AM
I don't want you guys to think i've given up. So here's alittle update.
I've been low poly modeling for a bit. Roughing out all the shapes before i take it into zbrush.
i'm at about 6500 tris and it's not optimized. I'm leaving in alot of quads for zbrush that will most likely be removed after i get my new Lows from zbrush. is a WIP. I'll show wires when i've cleaned it up.

02 February 2008, 07:45 PM
looking nice, his head/height ratio suggest that he is 11-15 I would make him a little taller in the legs and get him to 7.5 (scientific) or 8 heads (ideal) in height. nice silhouette ;)

02 February 2008, 10:49 PM
Thanks zeke. His head is smaller and his hands and feet are oversized. I'm just shooting for a bit more stylized look.
More images to come after tweaks.

02 February 2008, 08:25 AM
I added a face and tweaked some stuff. Tomorrow i'll finish low polying the gun then it's off to UVmapping. (one of my favorite steps!) Then ZBRUSH!!! I've been looking forward to the zbrushing. Just a bit more work till i'm at that step. If you are curious he's at 7500 tris right now. He's not optimised yet. That will come later.
I'm saving polys in the long run for alpha Hair for his head and fur lineing for his coat.

Edit: Oops....i saved over the picture that was here with a later one. I didn't ever save the original image either. Oh was just smooth shadded version of what was a few post agao...sorry

02 February 2008, 07:32 AM
I love the fuzzy white accents =)


02 February 2008, 07:38 PM
enough low poly'n, lets see some zbrush action!

03 March 2008, 09:49 AM
soon zeke soon.

i finished up the high poly stuff for the backpack and the gun. Since they were hard edge modeling i did most of it in max.
I'm currently uving and i'll be taking it into zbrush soon.

03 March 2008, 11:21 PM
ok, uvs are done.
Of course they may change after zbrushing but this is the first draft.
If you look in the lower right you can see 4 identical shapes. Those are layers of fur to be used for the inside of his coat. If my poly count at the end allows it after i've optimized i may make a 5th layer of fur. The only things not mapped yet are alpha planes for his hair and for other coat fur. But those will be added in later in the gaps i've left behind.
Currently with his gun and 4 layers of fur he weighs in at 8950 polys. After zbrushing i'll optimize his mesh enough to add the alpha planes i need.
zbrushing is next

03 March 2008, 12:19 AM
moved some stuff around alittle bit to give the face some more room
but i didn't change the uvs enough to bother to post another shot.

03 March 2008, 11:27 AM
I started alittle high poly tonight.
I usually start anywhere BUT the head, but i decided to switch things up this time.
Here is alittle work in progress. I"ll probably leave this alone for a few days while i zbrush the clothes.

03 March 2008, 06:41 AM
cool man..

03 March 2008, 07:18 AM
Here is a test of the Normal Map on the Low head. The head is like 525 polys not counting the hat. Some of them are pointless or covered up so they will be removed later.

03 March 2008, 07:26 AM
for those who care this is the part of the 2048 that the face references for it's normals. I sure do hope i gave myself enough space for texturing the face. He looks sad

03 March 2008, 03:41 PM
Hi David,

Should have posted a crit earlier. I like the way the concept is going and I like how he is turning out so far, but some ideas:

The feet are too floppy-big... they make him look silly instead of stylized. Perhaps some of it is from FOV, but I'd make them and inch or too shorter.

Head: I like the sculpt, but a couple things RE the low-poly. First, the eyes. You don't need sphere-eyes if you aren't animating. Just cap off the eye-socket and give it a bulge to follow the contour of the pretend-eye.
Remember the face doesn't have to animate, so you can always lose some polys after you give him an expression. I would also consider sculpting him with an expression so you can give him the subtle details. Or you can just keep the neutral face.
The goggles on his head need more sides (8 isn't enough). And there is NO reason for them to be part of the helmet mesh. Just model the helmet mesh, then stick the gogles (with 12 or so sides) on top.
Model in the goggle strap around the helmet, don't just rely on the normal map. It is important for silhouette especially where someone's attention is drawn, like the face.
Also, don't make the hat so regular (it looks like a helmet). Maybe something to fix after ZBrushing it, but it looks like a helmet now, some irregularity would make it more like a woolen hat.
Edit: Also, give the helmet another loop, to round it out. Looks very faceted right now in comparison to the face.
You will need more space for the head UV's. See next comment:

Fur: Don't do fur with shells. It isn't worth it if you can't do it through the shader, and you aren't animating. Use alpha planes for the fur instead. You will get a much better silhouette and effect. You will always have use for extra polygons, and in the new UV space, put your face UV shell.

UV's in general: I wouldn't start baking until you are about done sculpting. Remember that, when giving space, you generally want things to be equal (as I assume they are now), but you will also need more space for high-frequency details, I'm thinking specifically of the wool hat, the fur lining, and if you want to put any 'weave' into the clothing, etc.

Looking good so far!

03 March 2008, 05:22 PM
Thanks for the comments. The mesh will change alot after it comes out of zbrush. For instance...when i stepped down to the lowest setting for the face and exported from zbrush i had to add in some extra geometry so make the low more closely follow the shape of the high. Once i'm finished modeling the the clothes and hat i'm sure i'll have to change the shape of the low to match.

As for the eyes, I may pose his face depending on his firing position. So he may be squinting or other things, so for now i havne't decided if he's going to hvae an animated face. If i dont, i'll take your advice about the eyes and cap those suckers off.

Thanks for the comments, as i continue i'll address them as i go.

03 March 2008, 05:56 PM
looking nice David, I would suggest leave the face for last and let the ideas for it build up while you do the rest less subjective work. I would almost want to see him with a ban aid or some other distinguishing mark, a glass eye, something to make that part unique, not to say unattractive unappealing but unique. What are you planning to render him in? also keep the progress coming, also me personally would go with snowboarder glasses.

03 March 2008, 07:01 PM
thanks zeke.
I usually leave the face for last but i thought this time i'd tackle it first as a way to decide on the style for the overall zbrushing. I'm still working on his high poly goggles in max so when i'm done with the body in zbrush i'll add the goggles in.
I'll keep the updates coming...i'm hitting zbrush hard tonight and attacking those clothes.

03 March 2008, 08:45 AM
here's a bit of progress. Just the hat added....more to come.

03 March 2008, 12:02 PM
So here are some more lows with normals. Added objects are, Gun, Back Pack, Right Arm, and Gloves.

03 March 2008, 08:34 AM
added a boot and modified the arm. these are low with normals

03 March 2008, 05:33 AM
There are too many folds on the sweater, they contradict the ribbing, either loose the wrinkles or the ribbing. the detail under the foot could be alot better. also there is a lot of bubbling in the folds and normal map in general, smooth out the details a little to get rid of these and simply leave the sharp details intact, like the transitions between leather and cloth, leather and leather. rubber sole and leather, also this feels a bit rushed on the zbrushing part, better zbrush models make texturing easier, you know this, Iíve seen your work. Slow down and it will look phenomenal.

03 March 2008, 06:56 AM
thanks for the comments zeke.
The texture of the sweater is work in progress right now. I'm in the process as i type this of reworking the sleeve a bit as per your comments. I'll post up another image for you soon. Thanks.
I should have time this weekend to really tackle the zbrush work some more.

03 March 2008, 09:04 PM
Great work, your entry is a refreashing change from all the musclemen and monsters. It looks like a nice clean use of resources.

03 March 2008, 10:30 PM
Thanks. It was a busy weekend so i didn't get a chance to work on the project. But i'll be pulling late nights all week this week to try to catch up.
Hopefully there will be an update tonight.

03 March 2008, 08:40 AM
I promised an Update so here it is. I added bags and his bed roll to the mix. Here is the currently Low poly with normals. Comments and crits please.

03 March 2008, 08:53 AM
The transformation is looking good and defining things nicely. Looking forward to more. I've officially registered today myself. Fun and crazy times.

03 March 2008, 08:56 AM
Great work. It is really coming to life. The overall feel is consistant and it is really staring to stand out on its own. As far as Crits I would have to say that all the pouches and bags look very tightly packed. I think they may benifit from som larger form changes to give the illution that there are a number of things packed in them not one large mass. Other than that...

Makes me realize I need to get it in gear!

Great Work!

03 March 2008, 04:59 AM
lookin pretty good' derrrrrrr. :)

03 March 2008, 02:50 PM
So i did more work last night but don't feel it needs a picture update. High polyed all the straps for the bags as well as his big right knee pad. I also started to optimize the meshes for the pieces that already have their normal maps. My model is currently sitting pretty at 8950 polys. That's with 4 layers of fur for the coat, and un optimized meshes for his clothes. I'm thinking it's only 2 more 3 hour sessions with zbrush before this puppy is done being high polyed. So i'm hopping to have a final mesh this weekend and begin to texture.

03 March 2008, 04:56 AM
more posti !!!

03 March 2008, 07:46 AM
Here you go zeke. Finally an update.
So here is the main modeling. Normals are pretty much done as well. I still plan on trying to figure out how i'm going to fur the inside of his coat. I originally planned to use a shader type effect, but not use a shader. I have four layers of mesh where i want there to be fur and i have been trying to use those to get the same look as a fur shader. Saddly....i'm not getting it yet. So i still need to add in some card polys for his head hair. If i end of scraping teh idea of poly layers for his fur he may end up getting a pet.

03 March 2008, 07:06 AM
Here is a mini update. I got my fur working. I'm only using fur shells on his collar and alpha planes elsewhere. I'm at 8600 polys. So i still have a bunch for his hair planes and for any details i want to add. TEXTURE TIME TOMORROW! I'm excited!

03 March 2008, 02:41 AM
I just thought i would post the high poly too. I wanted to show you were i'm getting my normals map from. I hope you enjoy it. Any details you see in the low poly that aren't on the high were added in photoshop. More details will be added to the normals as i start to texture.

03 March 2008, 05:03 AM
damm, look whos been holding out! nice work:thumbsup:

03 March 2008, 05:36 AM
Hello David, excellent hipoly character, excellent skills! Smoothing the nose a bit in some areas I think would make him look even more realistic. Keep up!

03 March 2008, 09:31 PM
So i started texturing. I'm still just laying in color and textures. i have 57 more polys i can use. I still haven't set up the alpha hair for him yet so i hope that will be enough. Most of his hair is covered anyway. More Texture updates coming soon.

03 March 2008, 10:08 PM
looking nice, my only crit is you should push around some points on the cloth to break it up a bit.

03 March 2008, 10:13 PM
what do you mean by that zeke? could you clarify?

03 March 2008, 12:22 AM
Well, I guess it would be better off to do that once in specific poses, push low poly points to simulate gravity, uneven it out a bit. I think while your texturing it, its best to leave it as is.

also, looking at the color scheme, which is CGsocieties theme, its looking nice, but too matchy. I would leave the red for the cap at the most to draw in the viewers eyes towards the face, the eyes. And I would switch the body reds to something else, something that doesnít get attention as much, I would also be cautious of it being too matchy, and symmetrical in color distribution, It effectively does what having a completely symmetrical model achieves, a bit of uncanny boringness. I would uneven the color distributions, while bringing the viewer back to the eyes/face. This doesnít imply you can't put secondary and tertiary eye catching elements, but they need to follow a distinct order. The matchyness also makes him look like he intentionally goes out of his way to make himself look appealing to other people, and looks at himself in the mirror before he leaves the barracks. He can be co-ordinate to the point of you can still believe he doesnít go out of his way to look so. I know if you work some of this in, it will take this piece to that next level.

03 March 2008, 06:59 AM
cool, thanks alot.
I'll take all that into consideration as i continue this texture process. Which i might add is slow as hell since my computer is aging a bit...coming on 5 years old now. Working with a 2048 photoshop file with lots of layers is killing my poor old girl.
Thanks for the comments.

03 March 2008, 11:55 PM
really great work so far keep it up!
DW3 page (

03 March 2008, 04:27 AM
Looking nice! I agree with Zeke's comments wholeheartedly, it will really help your character. Do some paintovers in PS, just changing HSV of all the different parts, until you find something you like better.

You were right what you told me, the fur is looking really nice. I just am not sure how many polys it is...

If you have the extra polys, you can use them to cut out some silhouette areas. It goes along with what Zeke said about the cloth, sort of... cutting in 2 extra triangles to pull out a single vert to represent a fold in the model can go a long way, rather than relying on the normal map entirely. For example, those grey shoulder straps on the jacket read very well because they have a slight silhouette. I'd add some extra geo to any bunchy clothing areas (below the knees, above the knees, the back bottom of the jacket, the elbows).

Keep it up.

03 March 2008, 04:48 AM
thanks prof420.

poly count for the fur shells is 800 tris.
not bad really.
I'll def take your comments into account as i move forward.....

Got a new job today...start in 2 weeks!

03 March 2008, 07:57 AM
Good job dude, that fur turned out great!
And congrats in the job :thumbsup:

03 March 2008, 06:15 AM
I don't start for 2 weeks, but i have a little over a week of vacation i have to use up or it gets lost from my current 3d job, so i'll have 6 days payed vacation to devote to finishign up my DOM War. Starting on the 27th (my bday) i'll be finishing off this bad boy.

03 March 2008, 03:18 AM
cant wait to see what that time brings out in terms of progress, happy b-day by the way.

03 March 2008, 04:54 AM
thanks buddy....i've been texturing....more to show soon.

03 March 2008, 11:55 PM
here is a textureing update. I'll be starting spec maps and what not soon. This is just norms and diffuse with alpha of course. More to come.

03 March 2008, 11:21 PM
I've been making all the other maps. Spec and what not. I'm working on a quick rig now for posing. I'll post an update once i have it rigged and posed on the stand.
So i might be a few days before you guys see anything. But i did finally come up with an idea for my stand.
My goal is to have this done by the original end date.

03 March 2008, 05:05 AM
I like the textures, nice style. I think the face could use some more detail though so it really sticks out from the rest.

03 March 2008, 09:32 PM
I've got alot of tweaking of the textures to do. The diffuse and spec need a bit of work here and there. But for the most part this is the basic look i'm going for...comments welcome.

04 April 2008, 07:30 AM
I think i'm done....i might upload these just so i'm DONE DONE.

04 April 2008, 11:34 PM
Well i had these up for a day with no responses, so i decided to just submit them.

I might try to get it into unreal engine tonight. I'll post screens if i manage to get in there.

04 April 2008, 04:49 AM
Hey there.. that's a pretty early submission.. impressive. I usually wait until the pressure really gets on then pull a few all nighters, or at least close to. So yeah good job in submitting them already!

Looks good. I really like the textures, lots of detail. It was executed well I think maybe for this competition the character is a little simple. I've found by looking at what has done well the more complex a character, or out there, or just more gadgets.. I can't quite put my finger on it but I think he's a little 'ordinary' so I don't know how much attention it will get. Besides that I think it looks great. I like the photo montage thing you put together. Also the Zbrushing looks good, lots of nice detail. It's too bad sometimes when it's tranferred to normal maps the detail just doesn't stand out as much.

Good luck!

04 April 2008, 06:56 AM
Thanks for the comment.
I know my character isn't as flashy or busy as some of the other characters. I can see how that might make it not stand out very much. But perhaps, it might actually be a selling point to the judges. They might find that being slightly styleized in proportations and color will make it stand out. OR......they will hate it. Either way, I'm proud of what i've done. It's very very close to my original mental image before i even started the concept. Also, i believe it follows my concept pretty well. I'm hoping for top 50 and to atleast be recognized or mentioned by one of the judges.

I thought it might be interesting to show my inspiration and historical source material for one of the photos in my beauty render.

04 April 2008, 07:32 AM
overall nice entry david, you havent actually submitted it yet? I think if you softened up the face and just milked that area until you got bored of that, then move to do the same radiating mechanicly ;) outward from there you could boost that guy 10X his visual level.

that photo reminds me of one at my mom's house, she printed out a picture off the internet and has it hanging on a photo wall. we worked on a mod and had our portraits in old faded milatary shots just like that one, we photoshoped them to look like that, It looks spooky on the wall cause it looks old and ghostly, I wonder if she tells people that thats her son, and they wonder... wtf.. huh? to think it was taken in 2004, Ha!

anywho I like the presentation, with multi-photos one as my favorite of the bunch.

04 April 2008, 07:15 AM
Waiting on the judges. Just thought i'd show this high poly render i found on my computer.
Good luck too all.

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