View Full Version : HMC 10 - Tiger Attacks
08 August 2007, 07:05 AM
this is the first challenge I dare participate in. This topic is too much fun to pass by. :)
I am going for a Tiger attacking an unseen prey/attacker. I'll spend some more time searching references and will probably post a first wip tomorrow. Here are some nice reference pics I have been able to find so far.
Cheers and good luck to everybody!
08 August 2007, 05:15 AM
Not much of an update, but here's a first crude neutral pose base mesh out of Maya. Still needs a lot of cleaning up and detailing. Let me know what you think so far anyways.
08 August 2007, 08:01 PM
I figured this challenge would be the perfect way to work myself into new software. I have had XSI sitting on my desk for a while and will now learn how to use it for this project. So I started over in XSI and here's the first crude basemesh. All C&C's welcome!
PS: Any advice and pointers from people who switched from Maya to XSI are also more than welcome and very much appreciated.
08 August 2007, 04:54 PM
I didnt have much time, so as an update, I just have some minor refinements of the head to show off for now. Still trying to come to grips with the new program, which does look very neat so far!;)
08 August 2007, 05:49 PM
Looking good so far...I can't help you out much though...I use 3ds max, a little Maya and Zbrush...I've been checking out Modo and I like that alot, but haven't put much time into it yet.
08 August 2007, 05:25 AM
Thanks, cjewell! Yeah, I hear that Modo is a neat program, I'll have to look into the demo some time, that is, when I do have the time. :) I am currently also switching from Zbrush to Mudbox, so I have my hands full at the moment. I had a brief look at Max at some point, which made a good impression, but I never really got into exploring it deeper. How, in your opinion does Max compare to Maya?
08 August 2007, 10:29 PM
Hello TheRazorsEdge !
I personally prefer Zbrush to modeling. Mainly if as in this case, he can be a model without limits of polygons. He is very fast when he learns the tools, although has been a time learn...
08 August 2007, 05:15 PM
looking good. model is Proportioned nicely. are you going to use the fur tool in Maya?
08 August 2007, 06:58 AM
animastur: Thanks a lot. Yeah, I have to admit I didnt spend a lot of time with Zspheres and gave up in favor of basic box modeling. lol
Facepunch:Many thanks. I am going to use XSI hair for this, or at least I will try. lol
Alrighty, I think the low-res base is about done:
I tried to pay some attention to loop flow as I dont plan to retopo. Then I openend the mouth and started on the gums and tongue:
Same shot without the wires:
Next are teeth and claws and UV's. I'll see how far I can get in XSI with sculpting before I loose my patience and move over to Mudbox or Z3. So far I have to say, I really love the software. It takes some getting used to, but is very easy to learn and you dont really need a lot of resources to get a handle on it (I tried, but I heally hate the "s" key for basic nav and will switch to "alt" asap. Driving me nuts!) . :)
08 August 2007, 04:59 AM
Okay, I had some time to get some more work done on this. I have to say, I love the XSI modeling tools. Very easy to learn and use and allowing an extremely speedy workflow. Anyways, here we go. I tweaked the overall proportions and polyflow a bit more:
Added more detail and claws to the paws:
and finished the interior of the mouth with all teeth:
That's it for now, more later.
PS: I am experiencing some weird issues with my browser. Are these and all other pictures showing alright to you guys?
08 August 2007, 06:02 AM
I added the 3/4 view to the last update-post and am currently working on a nice uv layout. More updates will follow soon.
PS: Somebody please tell me if you all can see those pics alright! The weird things is, sometimes they are showing in my browser, sometimes they are not. I need to know if I have to change the hosting server so they are constantly shown here and you dont have to bother with a lot of bla bla bla and no images. :rolleyes:
08 August 2007, 08:44 AM
can't see em
08 August 2007, 04:21 PM
Thanks a lot, NoirQ. I'll try to get this issue fixed asap.
Until I do, here are smaller versions of the pics from the latest post.
08 August 2007, 05:48 PM
And the last pic from that same post.
08 August 2007, 05:45 PM
Moving along nicely!...I've been away for a little while. To answer your question I think 3ds max and Maya are very similar, Maya has some really cool tools, but I've been using 3ds max since before Maya came out so I stuck with it...I don't know Maya well enough to make a really good comparison, so I'll leave it at that. I may have to look into Mudbox though...I guess Autodesk is working with the creators of Mudbox to create a better workflow between the two...it's going to be hard to pull me away from Zbrush:)
08 August 2007, 08:29 PM
I was seriously considering tiling the UV's in ZB, but decided to spend the extra time and do it "right". Here's the result:
Let me know what you think!
cjewell: Thanks for your opinion on the Max/Maya comparison. I guess in the end the only thing that really matters is the comfort level of the artist with the tool. The big packages are all very similar in what they can do in regards to modeling, I would say. And yeah, ZB is a neat tool, with plenty of great features and will definitely remain a part of my workflow as well, but I really do prefer MB for pure sculpting. Again its all personal preference. A skilled artist will churn out quality stuff regardless of which app is used.
Btw, can you guys see the pics embedded in the posts now?
I am not sure if I fixed the issue.
08 August 2007, 01:02 PM
Nice shape so far, cant wait for the detailed one :)
08 August 2007, 02:26 PM
My next steps are rigging, skinning and test-posing, so the detailed mesh is still a bit off in the near future. Plus I am working on something for another challenge on another forum at the same time, so I am jumping between projects. It's gonna be a little while, but I hope not too long. ;)
08 August 2007, 10:33 AM
i still can't see them :D
08 August 2007, 11:23 AM
Damn, this cant be true! :eek:
I thought i had it fixed, as I can see them properly now.
How about some other people?
Are those pics embedded in the posts visible to you?
Any ideas what the problem could be?
08 August 2007, 01:18 PM
I can't see them either.
It looks like you're linking from another image hosting site. Some image hosting sites have problems showing up in some forums. But I don't know for sure if that's the problem or not.
08 August 2007, 02:17 PM
It looks like you're linking from another image hosting site.
That is exactly what I am doing. Looks like I have to find another way, since this is very obviously not working. Sorry folks!
Thanks for the reply Chris!
08 August 2007, 05:52 AM
I finally got back to working on this yesterday and started on the general forms of underlying muscles. I'm also still trying to fix the image hosting issue, but here's a small update as an attachment.
08 August 2007, 06:47 AM
i can see them now. Looking good. nice start on the sculpt. the hind leg looks a bit small tho perhaps?
08 August 2007, 04:04 PM
Thanks for the reply and crit, NoirQ.
Do you mean small as in short or as in overall size? :)
Personally I think the fore one currenltly looks like the beasty is on steroids. lol
I fully agree, something definitely needs adjusting here, so let me know what you think!
I am glad you can see the pics now, but that certainly has me confused, as I didnt get to fix anything yet. Well, you guys will just have to keep telling me when they are not showing, I guess. :rolleyes:
PS: I updated the previous post with a link to a second picture of the same state-of-affairs from a different angle. Hope you can all see it!
Whoopsy! I just noticed, I forgot to unhide the eyes, teeth and claws before taking the pics. Sorry about that!:eek:
08 August 2007, 12:17 AM
Just figured I'd point out a few things I noticed.
The jaw looks like an underbite, a bit too stretched out, and the front of the chin looks a little too flat. The toes seem a bit inflated, usually it's harder to tell toes apart in felines. The back legs don't look proportional- maybe try looking at a cat skeleton to get an idea of what I'm talking about. The part where the tibia goes back doesn't seem to be as straight as it is on your model and the metataursus doesn't seem long enough. It also seems to thin out right before the hind feet. I can't really say much on the muscle structure (i'm not sure how it's supposed to look exactly) but it does seem like maybe a bit too much or rather a bit clumped out around the arm. I hope that helps.
I like how things are progressing and I wish you the best of luck!
08 August 2007, 06:02 AM
Many thanks for the detailed critique. It is very much appreciated! :thumbsup:
I'll get to work on your suggestions in my next session.
I already fixed the jaw. The legs were modeled from a walking reference that had the appropriate legs forward on one side so the overall pose looks a bit awkward in this "mirrored" state, but you are right on the lower hind leg. It is a bit too short and the knee will have to come down a bit more as well. I will correct the neutral pose to reflect a standing position. The fore legs are way too brawny, so I already toned them down. As far as front to hind leg proportions are concerned, I just found this nice really pic of a lioness, which should really help me out in the matter. On a male the fore legs will be a bit more buff and female hips are wider/bigger though. ;)
Btw, got this from Wikipedia.com. They have some really nice images on there as well.
The toes are still not yet detailed. Since I am planning to do the fur with XSI hair, I am currently looking at sphynx cat images to get an idea of what a "bald" feline paw really looks like. My own cat is not really cooperative in the matter of being a reference subject! lol
Anyways, these changes and more will be illustrated in the next picture update and I am looking forward to your next critique.:)
08 August 2007, 08:24 PM
Alrighty folks, I changed the image hosting service and hope you can all see those new pictures now.
Your 100% rock-bottom-honest opinion is now called for on the overall shapes, proportions and look of the model in this current state.
I think most issues mentioned before have been addressed, I did however not modifiy the pose yet. Let me know if you think some of the inadequacies mentioned before still remain in the model.
So take a good look at the new pics and blast away at me. I am counting on it an dreally appreciate any and all constructive crits. :thumbsup:
I am looking forward to your comments and critiques!
Skol and later!:arteest:
08 August 2007, 04:38 PM
Alot may depned on the current pose changing the look but...
The back thigh muscle should have a rounded edge. Yours currently has an overly linear look to it plus it bends inward giving it a triangle shape. Like I said may depend on the lions pose. The snout (not the lower jaw) where the whiskers are should be longer going down. This one has the rounded look of a house cat whereas most lions have a more drawn appearance. Now I may be wrong on this one but aren't the upper insicors farthur forward than the lower ones. I believe they are bigger too.
Double check all this, your deeper in the reference material than me at the moment.
08 August 2007, 05:32 PM
Thanks a lot for the crit, Wyatt!:)
Good call on the thigh muscle. I had a vague idea something was not quite right, but your description made it really clear to me what needs to be fixed. Many thanks for that one alone!
Yeah, I need to pull that "upper lip" down a bit, but at least judging from my reference, tigers do look a bit more like housecats in that respect than lions. Still, it does need to be fixed.
On the teeth, do you mean the canines/fangs? If so, the upper ones should be farther back, as the lower ones fit into the upper jaw in front of them. Perhaps they really are a wee bit too far back though. I'll look into that more closely.
Anyways, here are two images you might be able to use as reference for your cat model as well. The first one is/was a siberian tiger, the second a domestic cat.
You'll just have to trust me that the upper fangs are quite a bit bigger on my model than the lower ones. Much of them is hidden under the "upper lips". If you look at image 5, those tiny extrusions in the center of the upper jaw are the tops of the center incisors. That should give you an idea of the size of the fangs.
Many thanks again, correcting all this will make the model that much better!
PS: Damn, just looking at that tiger skull again directly next to the cat one, I just realized I have been "inspecting" my cat a bit too much for reference. :banghead:
There's still quite a bit of work to be done on the general form of the head alone.
08 August 2007, 10:07 AM
WyattHarris hit the nail on the head, when he referred to my tiger as a lion! lol
That's exactely what the beastie looked like and that had to change.... so here's the next update on the head:
Please keep in mind that the addition of longer fur later on is going to add a lot to the tiger-look as well.
Anyways, let me know what you think now and please, do point out if you feel I missed improving some of the other shortcomings mentioned before.
08 August 2007, 12:09 PM
Super modeling! Youre improvements on the snout really made the differemce. The only thing I see that could use further tweaking would be the position of the eyes and the brow. I'd make the eyes a tiny bit larger and move them down the face a bit.
Just my two cents.
Good work and keep it up.
08 August 2007, 02:55 PM
Thanks a lot for the comment and crit, Andrew!
I'll have to sort through my references for the siberian Tiger, since that is really what I am going for and see how to deal with the size of the eyes. You are right though, they definitely do seem a tad high. Good call! Many thanks!:)
09 September 2007, 02:24 PM
Ok, I had some time to get back to work on this.
Before I show you the +400K poly sculpt and the final action pose I decided on, I would like to hear your crits on the low res sculpt in regards to overall proportions and everything else which might strike you as somewhat off. What you see is a new, neutral pose which I felt lets me judge proportions better than the previous one.
So here we go:
Let me know what you think!
09 September 2007, 04:06 PM
I do have a couple of incidental crits. The triangular indentation in the upper base of the neck, where it connects to the shoulder, looks odd. I think the chest is a bit too low in the front view and the front paws are a bit too big (in relation to the rears) and too forward protruding. The back paws look great and the overall anatomy is nicely done. I can’t wait to see your hiRes sculpt!
09 September 2007, 05:01 PM
hey coming along nicely i like how u handled the feet although as Quardart mentioned it looks a little too big. Proportion wise from looking at the front view its appearing abit squarish. I think the upper part of the legs where it meets the body should stick out further than the lower part. Some bulging in that area and the same for the back legs should do the job and maybe on the central body aswell to make it abit more fuller. Hopefully you know what i mean. :) Look forward to ur next update!
09 September 2007, 10:49 PM
HCR MINI-Challenge #10: Animals in Motion:Post the Final (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=538887)-R
09 September 2007, 01:25 PM
Many thanks for the very valuable critiques to H2 and Quadart!
I made the appropriate changes, which I am afraid will not be very visible in the pic, which is included with this post, but should be obvious in the final entry images.
While everybody else seems to be uploading their final images right now, I am still working on my entry. lol
As a little teaser for what is to come, here's an image of the posed base and posing rig in XSI.
There will be more later today!
PS. I oriented the camera so the rig could be seen relatively well, thus the pose looks a bit weird in this quick screengrab. The foot that actually touches the ground is the background one. Also, the teeth and claws have obviously gone awol again. lol
PPS: Updated on 9.17.07 to complete the chronology of images.
Here is the +400K Mudbox sculpt with extra mesh for the "beard" hair:
09 September 2007, 02:02 PM
Looks good! Great base mesh and pose!
I hope you make it in on time. If you shouldn’t, I hope you finish it anyway. You have a great model to do some magic with.
09 September 2007, 11:51 PM
Many thanks Quadart, I can only return the compliments in regard to your fine work on the Kudu!
For this challenge, I didnt even come close to what I wanted to achieve with this model, but there is life after the deadline, I guess and I will continue working on this as time permits.
Alrighty, for the time being, here are the final ortho's:
09 September 2007, 11:58 PM
And here are my beauty renders and little story:
"Limited Edition Genghis Attacks Commemorative Bronze Statue"
Let me introduce you to Genghis, resident male Bengal Tiger of the Ranthambhore National Park, India. Now Genghis was minding his own business, leasurely walking past the ruins of an old fort when suddenly a very loud noise could be heard and something impacted rather violently right in front of him on the ground and sprayed his face with debris. Alarmed, he quickly charged off into the cover of the nearby high grass.
Now, as you can imagine the impact was a bullet fired at him and the perpetrator was a pocher. In this case it was a rich Gangster Rapper from the Hood, who felt it necessary to add "Big Game Hunting" to his manly player credits and had bribed the local officials to get a guaranteed shot at a capital tiger. Since he missed his shot and the rifle jammed directly after that and Genghis took off into cover, our millionaire rapper was of course quick to appoint blame for the missed opportunity to everybody else except himself. In the commotion ensuing during the argument who was at fault, nobody noticed Genghis approaching. Now it was Genghis's turn to take a shot at our tough mofo from the hood.
To commemorate the sad demise of said rapper, you can now own the limited edition "Genghis Attacks" bronze statue, as illustrated with a few images below. If all goes well, this nice collectible will be available as well in Meji-style bronze on an oval display stand with some bamboo plants added for ambiance. For more information please contact your favorite fine arts store! ;)
larger version of the above image: HERE (http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff104/TheRazorsEdgeStudio/HMCTigerBeautyRender2Large.jpg)
This is it for this thread, I guess.
I have seen some stunnig work by you guys and can honestly say it has left me majorly inspired!
Great work everybody this was a great challenge!
09 September 2007, 11:58 PM
I thougt I'd upload these additional 3 images to make the 360 view turn complete:
As mentioned before, although the challenge is done and over, I still consider this a wip so any and all comments and crits are most welcome!
09 September 2007, 11:38 AM
What an artwork, congrats thats amasing. will you release a fur version? that would be great.
Where did you find the references for the muscle structure. im thinking of doing a tiger too but cant find any muscle references.
Once again congrats for incredible artwork.
09 September 2007, 04:12 PM
Many thanks for the compliments, xogun!:)
As time permits I still plan to tackle the fur version and post it here. I'll keep the thread updated in regards to that, but it will be a little while.
As far as big cat anatomy references go, I didnt find a lot online and had to collect a massive amount of tiger images downloaded from various sources as well as video resources.
For basic big cat anatomy I relied on the standard works such as: "Animal Anatomy" by Ellenberger etc. amazon.com has plenty of resources available. There is also a lot of dog anatomy to be found via google, which is basically the same but requires some more or less major adjustments here and there.
In case you do start to work on a tiger or other big cat, keep me posted. I always love to look at such works develop and as a lover of cats of all sizes very much enjoy the final results!
09 September 2007, 06:09 PM
Congrats on the amazing final sculpt, TheRazorsEdge! I especially like the first of the last images you posted. The angle and pose is really nice and dynamic.
You've done a really good job on the anatomy also. And the stylistic approach on the tiger strips was the icing on the cake. It really feels like a physical sculpture.
I also really like the paws. That was the hardest part for me I think. Mostly because I wasn't paying enough to the references when modelling the base mesh (as far as the paws go at least) but also because I found them really hard to sculpt. But you did a beautiful job!!
FYI: www.bbcmotiongallery.com is an endless source of animal video reference. I'd recommend going there to anyone doing animal stuff.
09 September 2007, 06:39 AM
Thank you very much! :)
Many thanks also for the BBC link. Very handy!:thumbsup:
09 September 2007, 11:15 AM
I like what you’ve done here. Beautiful!
As mentioned, it looks like a real sculpture and the stripe relief is a nice touch.
09 September 2007, 02:10 PM
Thank you very much for the kind words!
09 September 2007, 07:14 PM
Ok guys time to talk
LESSONS LEARNED (Animals in Motion): Lets TalK! (http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?f=208&t=544040)
09 September 2007, 07:14 PM
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