View Full Version : Hmc#10: Bull Mid-air Collision

07 July 2007, 06:09 PM
Hey people. I wasn't going to participate in this challenge, but I recently stumbled upon an amazing ANIMALS ANATOMY book by Gottfried Bammes, and looking inside I discoreved how utterly cool bulls really are. The main reason I probably like them so much is because of how well their muscle groups are defined in some cases:

I'm thinking of creating a scene, where two bulls collide in mid-air, due to some dispute regarding a cow or something. To be honest, I have some doubts about this idea, as I have never seen two bulls jump, let alone collide in mid-air and it might take some serious imagination to visualise the final shot. I'll start modelling the bull and take it from there.

Good luck to everyone with this challenge :)

07 July 2007, 12:08 AM
That's going to be quite challenging to build as they are very muscular and it's probably going to take a lot of scuplting to get all the muscle tone happening. This scene will be definetly worth keeping an eye on. Good luck mate:)

07 July 2007, 01:55 AM
Four words.
You are nucking futz.
This will be awesome to watch and I can't wait to see your organic skills, being that we know your inorganic are already dialed in.

07 July 2007, 01:36 PM
Hey, Yav! Congrats on the last challenge BTW!

I know you've probably got your own idea for the bulls, but let me just suggest something.

For me, it's hard to visualize the positioning of two bulls colliding in midair since I couldn't find any reference on that type of action either. There's definitely a going to be a challenge balancing the design of the poses of two bulls in midair. But, I found an image (you've probably already seen this from your reference gathering) here. ( The image is of Bison and not bulls, but the design is elegant. An "S" shaped composition just really brings out the full power and movement. I'm not saying you have to do a pose just like this, but it's just to help visualize some options and give you some options to think about.

07 July 2007, 02:18 PM
Chris, that's brilliant. Just yesterday I was imagining two bulls fighting on the ground rather than jumping in the air and I instantly thought of dust raising from the earth, just like in the photo you send me. As for the S shaped composition, I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the link, man.

07 July 2007, 05:05 PM
Soooooooo, my nemisis returns...and with an equally impressive subject for his entry. You may have had me out-voted in the last contest( ...actually - everyone out voted me! ) but things will be different this and me are going head-to-head...mano-a-mano...Beef-n-Nuts:twisted:

Yav, do the bull charging like hes about to take out a tank(though obviously there would not be a tank in there.). The Bull by himself would be sufficient methinks, but then again I could be wrong...

07 July 2007, 06:42 PM
Hey yav, great picture, i hope you dont mind that i use it, im planning to make a torada scene in homenage to this beautifull country spain.( altough its the most stupid sport that exist ). I have gathered a few images for my entry and will do a collage and post it on imageshack, so if you are interested i can send u the link.
About the anatomy book you said, does it have pictures of bulls anatomy? couldnt find any online yet.
Great idea, i have seen some images of bulls going head to head against each other, i think its another stupid violent sports agains animals, i think you can find some videos of it on youtube, search for bull fight or something like that.
looking foward to your progress.

07 July 2007, 07:39 PM
Boone...unless you make a scene with a thousand utterly violent squirrels, I don't see how you can go head-on-head against my raging bull ;)

Andre, I scanned some pages from my anatomy book today, so check your email :)

07 July 2007, 08:33 PM
First off, Congratulations on the Star Wars Chellenge, it really was awsome.
And I'm looking forward to what your going to accomplish this time. Nice choise of animal.

07 July 2007, 08:45 PM
Re: Yav.

Now theres a thought!:twisted:

07 July 2007, 09:59 PM
great idea! looking forward to seeing how it develops :)

07 July 2007, 09:18 AM
Hey yav, just uploaded some reference images, in here (

07 July 2007, 07:24 PM
First baby steps. Nothing impressive so far...

08 August 2007, 11:28 AM
nothing impressive ? hmmm maybe :D but looking great :thumbsup:
very cool start :)
looking forward to see a head :D

08 August 2007, 10:16 PM
Looking good so far Yav, can't wait to see the muscles start to develop so I can get an idea how it's done.

08 August 2007, 10:59 PM
I like it all ready, no bull (haha!)

08 August 2007, 12:02 AM
Right, here's the latest update. I've decided to approach this competition in a more classical manner, meaning that I'm pretty much modelling as a real sculptor would. I've been working in low poly mode, isolating the various muscle groups from each other, trying to understand their purpose, position and so on. When all the groups are completed and correctly overlaping each other, I'll rig the bull and start experimenting with a pose and composition. Once the poses are finalised, I'll bring the whole lot into Z-brush and start defining the muscles, veins, stretch marks and so on.

On the brighter side, here's a photo I took of a few cows near my house, who were CLEARLY contemplating of doing something AWFUL to me.

08 August 2007, 01:37 AM
Very interesting method of modelling, it's looking really great!
Those cows seem tame enough it's the Jersey or Friesian bulls that you have to watch out for, they are savage buggers.

08 August 2007, 05:02 AM
I agree, neat approach to modeling you are using! Damn, that is gonna be one heavily muscled bull, just like in real life.:thumbsup:

PS: Yeah, those cows are very obviously up to something. Cant be too careful!:)

08 August 2007, 02:31 PM
thats looking pretty damn good so far, thats going to be a friggin modybuilder of a bull, but the muscle definition you have so far looks great! keep up the good work!:thumbsup:

08 August 2007, 10:35 PM
great work

08 August 2007, 03:14 AM
Right, People...this is totally off-topic, but I had to share this with you all.

About half an hour ago, my computer switched off for no apparent reason and I completely panicked, as I discovered that it wouldn't go back on. I checked everything, including the sockets, the UPS, the inside of the tower, looking for burn marks and so on. Eventually I discovered that the power cable had been bitten through.

LOOK AT IT!!! It died instantly and it even had time to take one last dump! You can even see that one of the eyes popped out if it's sockets. How utterly DUMB animals, mice are. That's what you get for chewing on random things. It even went for the speaker's cable, but thank god it didn't get too far!

Right, that's it. Back to work.

08 August 2007, 03:17 AM
haha, oh man what a little SOB, yeah that will really put a damper on your work, lol. Well hey at least the little bugger got what he deserved, hope everything is still intact!

08 August 2007, 05:42 AM
Crispy! :twisted: ..........

08 August 2007, 09:31 AM
LOL, call me evil but that is soooo funny!

"SHIP...out of...DANGER? last...DUMP!"

08 August 2007, 10:54 AM
On the plus side, you could ship it to the guy who is modelling the mouse. Great reference ;)


08 August 2007, 11:11 AM
Its cruel but very funny!

08 August 2007, 02:37 PM
Dude you need a cat!

08 August 2007, 03:01 PM
That's pretty

08 August 2007, 03:41 PM
Well, I've put the mouse in the bin, but I'm well tempted to tie it to a string and hang it from the ceiling above my monitor, just so that it serves as a warning to any future mice, planning to enter my room.

Or I could get some acid and leave it there for a few days and then I'd have a wicked mouse skeleton, which I can exhibit in a glass box for everyone to enjoy.

08 August 2007, 10:16 PM
Hey mate I know you wanted to get that mouse dissected for me to use as a reference but it looks like you took it a step further and fried the sorry little bugger LOL! See hw would rather chew a cable and get zapped than bitten by my scarey spidey.

08 August 2007, 03:28 AM
Well, I've put the mouse in the bin, but I'm well tempted to tie it to a string and hang it from the ceiling above my monitor, just so that it serves as a warning to any future mice, planning to enter my room.

Or I could get some acid and leave it there for a few days and then I'd have a wicked mouse skeleton, which I can exhibit in a glass box for everyone to enjoy.

Do you have any clue how bad a dead decaying mouse smells? Trust me, you won't have that mouse over the monitor for long.

08 August 2007, 04:43 AM
Right, here's an update of the head...still loads to fix, but it's a start.

08 August 2007, 09:42 AM
Looking pretty good mate. Nice progression too. :)

08 August 2007, 01:03 PM
:thumbsup: Very good work and good progress. :thumbsup:

08 August 2007, 10:31 PM
looking fantastic, good work

08 August 2007, 11:50 PM
Good looking bull you have there! Can't wait to see it develop. BTW, congrats on winning the last challenge. That was a nice render you produced. I've actually been looking into maxwell but may be a little intimidated by it. Or maybe i'm not sure where to start.(same thing?)

08 August 2007, 12:35 AM
Thanks everyone.

Monica, Maxwell is possibly the easiest to learn rendering engine out there. If you have a decent attention span, you should have zero problems with getting some results in minutes.

08 August 2007, 07:07 PM
very nice Yav. i definetley see what you were saying about getting a nice scuplt before going into Zbrush.

08 August 2007, 07:14 PM
It's looking Great... The ZBrush is going to look awesome, your going to get in it with a very nice base model. Keep it up.

08 August 2007, 10:31 PM
Yav, looking beautiful mate! it's really starting to take shape. And i'll back you up on maxwell it's far easier to use than V-ray ever was and as for Mental-ray, yeah don't get me started on that! Maxwell has the best real-time material editor I have ever used that and the fact that you can stop and then resume rendering make it cool.

08 August 2007, 05:03 AM
looking excellent there! I love the head!

08 August 2007, 10:37 AM
If you want reference shots of a bull's stance & charging, I have a few pics you can use. I took them while at a bullfight in Mexico. Be forewarned they are graphic. I have 2 "tame" pics on Email me if you wish.

08 August 2007, 04:08 PM
Hey Yav very impressive progress! the base mesh is lookin great so far.

I noticed you have some loops quite close to each other like in the ear, i was just wondering if you was planning to subdivide in zbrush etc wouldnt it become abit too dense in that region? I dont think it would cause alot of problems but i had always thought tight loops are not needed on the base mesh as there will probably be enough polygons once u subdivide to define any details needed.

Look forward to some more updates

08 August 2007, 04:55 PM
Yup. You wouldnt wanna tangle with that!:eek:

08 August 2007, 04:56 PM
Well spotted. I'll refine the mesh a bit more. Thanks, mate.

08 August 2007, 01:09 PM
Latest update. Haven't been able to work on this at all lately, hence the delay. This is pretty much all the basic modelling done. Next stage is to rig the bull, pose it with another one and then start sculpting in Z-Brush. Oh, one point I also have to do the inside of the mouth, which I'm dreading, but it'll have to be done.

08 August 2007, 06:42 PM
looks greate so far! head is awsome - great topology and anathomy,

keep it up! good luck!

08 August 2007, 09:19 PM
Dont forget to give him some balls too. Looking awesome, will u rig and than export? wont u lose symetry if u do that? keep it up.

08 August 2007, 09:36 PM
Dont forget to give him some balls too. Looking awesome, will u rig and than export? wont u lose symetry if u do that? keep it up.
You lose 'symmetry' if you pose, but your geometric/tangent symmetry remains the same so long as you don't do any additional basemesh editing afterward.

08 August 2007, 10:08 PM
Looking great Yav!:thumbsup: hope doing the inside of the mouth works out for you.

09 September 2007, 10:08 PM
Hello, people. It has been ages since my last post. I've been travelling around Italy and south of France for the past two weeks, hence my abscence. Saw David in Florence, and I must say, it was quite a surreal experience. It really makes you appreciate the craft of traditional sculpture and in a way, it makes you realise how little we all know and do in comparison to the true masters in the past, such as Michelangelo and Rodin.

Anyway, haven't been able to work on this at all lately, but here's a little update:



I'm nowhere near happy with the way this is going and I really don't think I'll finish in time. I must also say it's a pity that quite a few good candidates have already given up, such as Eldee and Intervain.

09 September 2007, 10:53 PM
hey Yav , this was lookin very promising and still is and it would be a shame if you cant get it completed in time. Yours is definitly one of the strongest entries Dont give up!

09 September 2007, 06:20 AM
I agree with H2 keep going, may I suggest you put the heads down, also I think since bulls have eyes on the sides of the head, they will focus on each other with one eye, so turn the head slightly.

09 September 2007, 10:00 PM
That must have been something Yav. Travelling around Italy and seeing the statue of David. It really makes you appreciate what earlier artists accomplished as they often worked in dimly lit conditions and didn't have the luxury of electric lighting and computers that we all take for granted. Anyway good luck with your bull. I was disappointed with my spider and mouse but have been working on my strange behaviour entry instead. Organic modelling is not my strong point. Best of luck mate!

09 September 2007, 10:48 PM
HCR MINI-Challenge #10: Animals in Motion:Post the Final (

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