XM Magdalena 3D print, GGeorgy (3D)
LC #42 Pipers Alley

View Full Version : Hero-modeling

03-26-2003, 03:45 PM
Here's a quick update of the body. Let me know if this is looking right. I wasn't sure of the color scheme so I based it on the first sketch and the color pallete. :D
I'll start on the hands and feet then the head next.


Kenn :wip:

03-26-2003, 07:20 PM
sweet someone finally started the hero.

looks good man. but I ain't kirt

03-26-2003, 07:45 PM
I think it looks good too.. but then again lets see the hard critique from "Tha director" hthe :D :D

03-26-2003, 10:07 PM
Wha?? .... I'm getting a reputation as a hard nose already? :surprised

Bleah ... I give my opinion anyway :D

Things that need adjusting to make it more cartoon like:

1. shorten the legs about 25% and thicken up the calves.
2. shorten the torso.
3. expand the rib cage more
4. forearms s/b thick, a cross section would almost be circular
5. arms may need length, depending on changes to torso
6. I'm not sure that you need to model the Earth and Moon graphic on his chest. We can add that with a texture.

03-26-2003, 11:56 PM
Originally posted by Kirt
[B]Wha?? .... I'm getting a reputation as a hard nose already? :surprised

Nah.. i'm just pulling your chain hehe :D :D :D

BTW: how do you want the model ?

03-27-2003, 02:41 AM
Alright here's another update. :buttrock:
I modified as you directed, let me know if I need to push it more. I've also started on roughing out the head and getting the geometry in there to get some good expressions out of him. Okay, to me it looks way off but close...I keep tweaking but I'm chasing my tail...hehe...all I have is the concept sketch for his head. I know he's going to be a main character with alot of close up shots to his face so I want to be sure to get it right with the geometry right so it can carry his scenes.



*Even if you could give me a rough schematic 3-view of just his face it would help me get him nailed down. This is alot of fun to work on, looking toward moving forward with him.

Kenn :wip:

03-27-2003, 02:58 AM
make dem eyes bigga sonny boy. thats what I have to say.

03-27-2003, 03:22 AM
make the eyes bigger, and I'd scale the legs bigger until it looks more...rightly-proportional...

but, I'm no expert, and it looks great as is, though not like the sketch...hehe...

but did I mention I'm not an expert?

03-27-2003, 03:36 AM
WHOA! Big head! Hehehehe

You're close to 3 heads high with this character. Try it at about 5 1/2 heads high. Maybe just put a proxy sphere in there until I can get you some detail shots of the head. That doesn't look much like my guy at all.

I think you need to bring the bottom of the ribcage up so there is more room for the abs. They kinda dissappeared since the first image. And the legs looks like they got scaled in all directions rather just in the Y-axis.

The arms look much better though. :thumbsup:

03-27-2003, 09:28 PM
Cool, will do. I'll get the rest going while I wait on more info for the head/face. What about the color scheme? I also have someone willing to rig it once its finished who does awesome work. I'll post an update soon on the rest of his progress.

Kenn :wip:

03-28-2003, 11:01 PM
just subscribing! :thumbsup: keep it up BigCat!

03-28-2003, 11:10 PM
I just want to say maybe we will have some toruble with those nurbs in future!
curves are not interchangeable between apps & converting it to low polygon model will cause problems in some details & to high poly causes slowness in animating. another problem is LW's triangular polygons when exports to poly ! would you do a test for this matter before you continue?

03-29-2003, 05:07 AM
I can post a FBX file of the model if you want from layout or I can save it as a DXF or object. The cool thing with FBX is materials, rigging, morphs and even choreography can be exported. Kaydara has plug-ins for LW and MAYA. I don't know how well they translate over from one to the other, if anyone has any idea please post what you know.

Kenn :wip:

03-31-2003, 09:55 PM
Posted ortho views of his head. Hope that helps.

04-01-2003, 07:21 AM
Thanks Kirt for squeezing it in. I know how hard it is to fit everything of life and the projects in as well.

Kenn :wip:

04-09-2003, 11:47 PM
I apologize for not getting a chance to get some work done on this for the past week. I took some time this afternoon and did the head. CHeck out the geometry and tell me if you need anything there that isn't currently there. I still need to model the hair, put eyes in his head, then do the teeth and tongue. Do you want single sphere eyes or double with one clear gloss? I'm going to experiment around with the hair a bit. What part do you want to animate and to what extent? Do you want fully articulated teeth or just a broad "Pixar" band of pink & white?

Alright with out further adieu...


Da Big Blue Cat a.k.a. Kenn :wip:

04-10-2003, 08:40 AM
Very nice, BlueCougar, very nice.


PS: In case I forgot, VERY nice :buttrock:

04-11-2003, 11:15 AM
wow, really he is coming along very nice. good job, i should say.:beer:

Maya Ayanami
04-12-2003, 10:25 PM
I think your images are broken kenn.

i didn't get to see them

04-12-2003, 10:40 PM
I'm changing web hosts for my site and we're having difficulty with it pointing to the correct name server. Hopefully it will be resolved within a day or so. Here is an attatchment of the progress to look at until then.

Kenn :wip:

04-12-2003, 11:30 PM
Hey Blue I like that, its really nice. How far r u in to the model?

04-13-2003, 08:32 PM
Need to do the hands, feet, minor armor elements, eyes, mouth and hair.

04-13-2003, 10:09 PM
Hey thats great so it wont be to long now, I can't wait.
And what about the blenshapes?

04-14-2003, 01:27 AM
I'm working in LW so all I'm going to do is create the geometry and export it out of Layout as an Kaydara FBX.

04-14-2003, 07:11 AM
The head looks much better now. Good job!

Kinda hard to picture him with hair so overall it's hard to say he's good as is. I think the only thing that looks out of place to me is the cleft in his upper lip. I think you can greatly reduce that or eliminate it completely. Waiting for your next update ...

04-14-2003, 08:20 PM
Website back up, higher resolution images--> still need to know about the hair, eyes and etc. from the earlier post....

04-15-2003, 09:39 PM
Eyes should be double sphered so that the specular reflection reacts properly to the lighting. I noticed on Ila's model that he painted the spec reflection on the iris texture - this will be changed before we go to final renders.

The heroes hair should probably be done with soft dynamics on poly forms. His ponytail will obviously move around when he's running and jumping and I'd like to see the top hair react as well. The sides and back portions of his hair will remain stiff since it's shortest in these areas.

The teeth are probably going to be the toughest decision. I draw my characters with individual teeth sometime and single bands on others. I don't know which I prefer better. I think on close ups it's better to see individual teeth, but on long shots a single band is better. Ila's model really simplified it by putting in a broken band of uppers and nothing on the bottom. It works well with that character. Try a single band with this character and if I don't like it, we can always change it to individual teeth.

04-16-2003, 03:36 AM
Roger Wilco, over and out.....updates soon.

Kenn :wip:

04-30-2003, 02:45 PM
I've had RL and work taking me away from working on this lately. I'm going to make an effort to sit down tonight and pull some more detail out of him. I won't take that much time at all to finish him, its only a matter of getting it to do it. I hope everyone had a good Easter and an awesome Spring.


05-02-2003, 05:00 PM
Yaaaeeeiiiiii almost ready for rigging.

I can't wait.
:drool: :drool:

05-16-2003, 02:25 AM
Sorry I haven't posted any progress, my computer system went down about a week and a half ago. I'm behind on my contract work as well as this. After a long process I'm back up and running again as of yesterday evening. I hope to have some time this weekend to get some work done.


05-29-2003, 04:13 AM
Alright after a long time dealing with work and other things, I'm back with some updates. I've promised Ila some progress by the end of the month. Here is the hair done tonight. The model is currently in LW but will be pulled over to Maya 4.5 and the geometry cleaned up in sub-d's (part of the reason I have been busy ... learning Maya for the studio).

Kenn :wip:


05-29-2003, 10:11 AM
Hi Kenn, that's very pretty & clean :D thanx a lot man.

05-29-2003, 08:37 PM
Here's an update with the teeth we talked about Kirt. Let me know if the banded teeth will work. He also has eyeballs in his head. I'll start on the rest of him, the hands and feet later as well as misc details.

Kenn :wip:

05-30-2003, 12:47 AM
I was originally going to say that the hair needs to come to more of a point, but after looking at it again this afternoon I think it's fine the way it is. He's got a real friendly appearance which is good! :thumbsup:

The banded teeth will work fine. Keep on going, he's looking really good now.

05-30-2003, 02:55 AM
Thank you Kirt, I'm really glad you like him, his friendliness comes from your concept sketches. Here are his shoes and if you look I've redone the cuffs on his arms. The next step is hands and misc details.


Kenn :wip:

05-30-2003, 03:05 PM
I think that the feet are to small, a little unproportional to the rest of the body.

06-01-2003, 09:58 PM
Kirt, feedback on time invested would be appreciated. I need to know if you approve or disapprove of the work done. I want to be able to correct as I go and not redo everything at once later on in the process. Thanks.


06-01-2003, 10:45 PM
IF you ask me, I say everything is OK. ;) keep it up Kenn ... :buttrock:

06-02-2003, 12:16 AM
Cool, thanks for the timely response. I have my kids on weekends so my time is limited to work until after they're asleep. That is if they haven't worn me out too much! (They are 3 & 4 yrs old.)

06-02-2003, 01:07 AM
OK ... just to give you a little ease or piece of mind, I think this is one of the finer models of our hero. Good job so far.

Right now I'd say that the only thing to fix are his feet. They look a bit too boxy or flat on the top. They also are not shaped like feet. Meaning that they can also be interchanged between legs. They should be larger in width at the front and have an inner arch.


I'd like to see a front view of his arms, they seem to be too defined in the elbow area, but it's hard to tell from these views.

Minor things to work on a bit:

1. calf muscles too pronounced
2. neck could be thicker
3. seam between yellow and purple on his pectorials (near the armpit) is wavey.

06-02-2003, 04:46 AM
Awesome, thank you Kirt. I will incorporate your critique into the model. I'm just used to checking in with clients at different stages of a project so I'm more comfortable knowing I'm creating what you want to meet your specifications when you tell me what is right and wrong. I'll straighten the edge between the gold and purple for a smoother curve as well as emphasizing the structure of the feet more. Thanks again for the feedback.


Here is a quick update with some work done on what you mentioned. I'll have better shots for the feet later.


06-02-2003, 08:15 AM
I think legs are a little short & small, acording to the sketch. & then the arms seems will be short too, just a little.

06-03-2003, 10:25 PM
Gotcha, now that I look at it I see what you mean. I guess I was subliminally doing the "Johnny Bravo" body proportions to him. I'll address that with the other elements.
I just need to do a FX animatic for the studio to pitch to a client then after that I can work on it.


06-05-2003, 03:23 AM
Alright this is going to be a big posting as far as images. None of these images are renders; just screenshots of the OpenGL. The hands are done and the proportions have been tweaked: the legs, feet, neck, etc.
I'll start the misc elements after resolving any major issues from this. I'll need feed back on how this looks since I've changed so much at one time.
The geometry on the knuckles of the hand are to help square off the knuckles in deformation when they are curled. I'm not really pleased with the way the geometry of the fingernails went but they can be cleaned up once it's imported into maya. The hand was also joined to the arm to create one mesh under the cuff (which is seperate) as well.

Well that's it, now to start putting in all of the image links...


06-05-2003, 03:23 AM

06-05-2003, 03:25 AM

Hope this carries the vision that was hoped for...

Kenn :wip:

06-05-2003, 12:00 PM
Kirt, I think our big blue cat is close to finalize the Hero model ... just put your final guidance ;) :thumbsup:
still legs & feet should be a little fatter
good job Kenn

06-05-2003, 04:21 PM
I will come back to this in a bit. Just letting you know that I've seen it. I'm kinda' busy this morning with the Expose' book.

06-05-2003, 04:34 PM
This is great..:bounce:
I agree with Ila, the legs do need to be a little fater. And there is something with the left ankel is not as the right.

Nice job Cougar.

06-05-2003, 08:55 PM
Actually everything except the hair was just mirrored from the right to the left side. Thanks for posting a reply Kirt, I'll wait until you get an opportunity to respond.


06-06-2003, 11:21 PM
OK ... pictures are worth a thousand words. So I did some manipulations and scribbled notes all over one of your images. My primary concern is that he's looking a little too much 'anatomically correct' for a toon.

I skrunched him up pretty good so he doesn't appear to be 7 feet tall and added more bulk in a lot of areas. Notice the added wieght around the ribs and less definition on the arms.

If you put my image and your image on separate layers in photoshop and toggle between the two, you can see most of the changes pretty easily.

His feet still are a problem. I've added a few scribbles so that you can see what the geometry should be like.

Then ... of course, he still needs his accesories. :D


06-07-2003, 01:02 AM
On second thought ... let's try him with thinner legs first and see how that looks. My earliest sketches of this guy (that you've haven't seen) are very top heavy. Almost built like Earthworm Jim.

If it doesn't look right, then we'll beef his legs back up. :D

06-07-2003, 04:19 AM
Awesome Kirt! I'll get to it and drop a pic back up to let you know what I've done. The feet were done on the last change although I didn't show it very clearly.

Thanks for the doodle as well. I'm visual and that gives me a great reference to follow!

Kenn :wip:

Here's an update to your spec as far as body proportions and detail level. I also tweaked the feet more. I kept the head as is since its exactly to the reference drawings for the head. If you want it changed as well just give the word even if its shortening the neck. Once the big stuff is out of the way the little things'll be nothing.


06-07-2003, 07:53 AM
Looks good. :thumbsup:

Let's see those feet again. Then I think your good to go on the little details and accessories.

06-07-2003, 01:47 PM
Here you go Kirt. Let me know if you need it in a different view/perspective. Getting ready to go get the kids for the weekend. If you have any misc sketches for the minor elements and stuff that would be great. I guess I also need to fit the holster to the gun as well. Is there a resource file for the gun yet? If not I guess the geometry can be tweaked later in the rigging process when they set that up.

Kenn :wip:

06-07-2003, 10:04 PM
Alright, here is a detail update. Kirt if you could just take these pics and sketch on them with your wacom for modifications and additions you'd like, especially the utility belt. Here they are, there are 9 in all in 2 posts...

...next post...

06-07-2003, 10:09 PM

I didn't see any further posts regarding his weapon so I just guessimated the holster. Open to feedback!

Kenn :wip:

06-07-2003, 11:03 PM
:wip: superb!
[according to kirt's rotoscoping, legs should be fater! :p]

06-08-2003, 01:42 AM
Originally posted by Kirt
On second thought ... let's try him with thinner legs first and see how that looks. My earliest sketches of this guy (that you've haven't seen) are very top heavy. Almost built like Earthworm Jim.

If it doesn't look right, then we'll beef his legs back up. :D

I was going by Kirt's last comment on the matter...

06-12-2003, 06:11 PM
I know you've got alot on your plate with EXPOSE, freelance, 2D work and family as well, that you don't have too much time. Just let me know what kind of time frame I'm looking at for this so I can have an idea how to work it into my own production schedule.

Thanks again Kirt.


06-16-2003, 11:53 PM
Well, since I haven't gotten a response, where do I need to send the FBX Kaydara file from lightwave of the Hero? It can easily be imported in Maya using the FBX plug-in for Maya. Do I need to send it to you Ila?

Kenn :wip:

06-16-2003, 11:58 PM
yeap! that's a good idea
I pm you my private pop 3 e-mail, so you can send it without any size problem. I'll inform you afterward.
great job you did Kenn.:) :D :thumbsup:

06-17-2003, 07:30 PM
Watch the best mesh/model that Alienz project has ever got: it's a lesson for the other modelers, hurry up dudes! :p C'mon...

in Maya Test: (warning: some perspective distortions due to the lens fov)


Kudos to Kenn for everything! :D :) :beer: :thumbsup:

06-18-2003, 04:39 AM
Wow nice job. :bounce:

Who is going to the blendshapes and the low rez?

Cougar great model. :drool: :beer: :beer:

06-18-2003, 04:57 AM
Thank you Ila for your compliments, they are greatly appreciated. It is a product of Kirt's awesome concepts as well as the feedback that at times, I know I'd nag you guys to receive (ya I can be an pain). I'll let you know if I get the gun made as well.


06-18-2003, 07:21 AM
Kickin' work Kenn. :beer:

He's going to need those pouches on his belt, but other than that - he looks awesome. Can't wait to see some texturing and animations on him.

06-18-2003, 06:55 PM
You can do them if you like Ila or I can model them on a seperate layer and make another FBX file that you can just pull in to your present file and it should line right up with the original model.


>edit<I just realized that the eyeballs need to be changed to NURBS to achieve a cleaner highlight across the surface of the cornea/eyes, LW doesn't have that capability so you'll need to do it in Maya.>edit<

06-19-2003, 03:20 PM
HEY men!!

Good work!! really good model!

I'm studying the rig setup with nottoshabi for the Alien#1, and I would be glad to examine the future Hero rig ,too!!

keep on touch....



08-19-2003, 04:41 AM
Been playing around with some rigging in LW and used this mesh for fun. Here's a rough quick render of a face shot with just eye open, smile, and the head posed a little bit. I'm hoping to have more later, I'm taking my time working through some of the deformations, I think I'll play around with the Smartskin plug-in as well.


Kenn (&

09-11-2003, 11:20 PM
ooomf, after 2 days of skining, it still needs so many tweaks! I was lucky that I skipd the rigging setup by using aniMan script! damn, I hate Maya skining. (max is far easier)



animators can find this primary rigged/skinned mesh in the ftp site. still lots of work to do on him, but please try it and find the problems.

09-12-2003, 08:25 AM
Hey, good!

KIRT hey.....I think that the front of the foot it is to much leonine!! what do you think about?


09-12-2003, 08:44 AM
really amazing... It seem to be really usable....

a curiosity: what is tha colored sphere in the back spine of the hero? it changes his color moving the controllers....what it means?


09-12-2003, 09:01 PM
just an alarm, when it turns red it means that you have the stretch in the back spine bones.

09-13-2003, 08:07 AM
Awesome Ila, its really cool to see him posed. I never made any more progress in LW, projects took me away from it. Can't wait to see some animations from these guys.


09-21-2003, 08:59 PM
Thanx Kenn, I'm glad you liked it
still there are LOTS of works to do, blendshapes, shaders, rigging and skining tweaks, tweaks, tweaks ... and more tweaking!

I did this test with 3ds max:


09-21-2003, 09:27 PM
very cool ila, good to see you working on something :D

have you rigged him in 3dsmax or did you just export him from maya? i'd very much like to get my hands on a 3dsmax rig :)

the Muffin Man
05-28-2004, 06:48 AM
looks great :D

You really got the hero proportions down, and the model has all the cartoony flexibility one could ask for

quality, quality work, keep it up!


edit: Err.. great work cougar, keep up the mad rigging ila ** =D


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